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Jane

unhappy former Christian

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Hi!

Just found this site by accident after searching for other former Christian's experiences.

It was very difficult for me to let go of my faith but in the end ( about 5 years ago) it brought me only unhappiness and frustration.  I just couldn't believe anymore.  I stopped believing for various reasons the top being suffering, of humans and animals ( who don't even sin) , and a God that created all that .   There are just too many things in the Bible that don't make sense, and make God look like a jerk. Prayers don't get answered either.   God has never talked to me, neither given me any sort of sign he is real.   I don't want to worship some supernatural being that treats his creation like crap.  So I no longer believe in the Bible.  If you don't believe in the Bible, you are not a Christian.  Therefore I left the church ( LCMS Lutheran then Episcopal, but that didn't work for me either) 

Now my problem is this, I realize it is nice to have faith in some supernatural GOOD God, that loves us and will put is in heaven after death where we will see all our Christian friends and loved ones again.  So, I do not want to take anyone else's faith away.  At the same time ,  I really don't know what to say or not say to my still Christian friends and relatives ( almost everyone I know).  They are worried about me, sincerely, and are afraid I will go to hell.  The pray for me, and tell me to pray harder to get my faith back, and I don't want to make them feel bad.  At the same time I just can't fake it either.  Very depressing sometimes  

 

Jane 

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Hi and welcome to ex-c :) I can somewhat relate to what you said...I've been out of the church for over 30 years now, and lots of times I'm unsure what to say. Most Christians around here are stubbornly sure that their way is the only right and true way, and all others are lost. Giving them my point of view is a waste of breath, so I don't usually bother any more.

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thank you !  I know it is a waste of breath, and I also don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.  So, I just don't say anything most of the time.  But occasionally someone pushes for a reaction from me and I let it slip that I don't really believe it and why. Then they get offended....you can't win

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Welcome Jane. All good points you've made. Isn't it a pleasure to just evaluate things based on what seems evidently true rather than trying to see as true things you feel obligated to support. Life is so much simpler when lived outside of Christianity. As far as what to say to Christians you care about I would recommend saying as little as possible. It's pretty safe to answer direct questions though but I would stay away from specific problems or contradictions instead giving general statements of disbelief like To me it just doesn't seem true or The whole of Christianity appears to be man made to me. These broad statements save lots of feeler questions and many believers will not bother trying to follow up. You should be able to keep reasonable friends and relatives and the crazier ones usually aren't such a big loss. Enjoy your new found freedom.

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I am not sure I am enjoying not being a Christian anymore. It did make me happy to believe it while I did. I wished my faith was still there, but my logical reasoning mind just won't let it.  I want to get to where you are now, where I can be happy about no longer having faith.  I don't know how to get to that. Right now, I am just sort of sad and angry to be let down by the most likely non existing god.   I wished things were fair in this life, and only the bad suffered.  If I was god , that is what I would do. I would give humanity clear rules, and they would be punished if they broke them. The rules would not be stupid ( like don't eat that fruit, and then put the tree there) .  If they did not break them, they would have good lives.  I would create nature better.  There would be no natural disasters and all animals including humans would be vegetarians. There would not be things like viruses. It's not really that hard to come up with a better creator than the Christian God.  But if you tell a Christian that, they get very annoyed and tell you it is blasphemy, and I should not dare to question anything God did, because HIS fucking PLAN is perfect. 

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The thing that stuck in my craw was that it was a giant contrived lie. And I believed it because so many others who were nicely dressed and generally sweet also believed it. All of us were duped, and because so many others were there, I kept convincing myself from time to time that they must be right and I'm just fighting demons/depression/"going through a desert time"/blah blah. Then when I got enough of an emotional slap in the face, I realized that there was a real problem and that I couldn't turn away from the problem and pretend. After a year of really looking for an answer, I realized that I'd figured it out long ago, that the bible is myth, the god of the bible is a jerk, a blood-loving psychotic narcissist that hurts people and then rages at them for not loving him enough. He's evil, and happily doesn't exist, and never did. 

 

Here's a link to an article I wrote about his nastiness: The God of Abuse

 

Do what makes you happy. Find peace, maybe in nature, getting your hands in the soil. Some of us have various kinds of spiritual beliefs, mostly with no deities in the regular sense. 

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52 minutes ago, Jane said:

I want to get to where you are now, where I can be happy about no longer having faith.  I don't know how to get to that. Right now, I am just sort of sad and angry to be let down by the most likely non existing god. 

Yup. Your feelings are common, normal, and part of the process. With time this will go away. One morning you'll wake up and feel something lift from your shoulders and you'll smile all day. Hang in there.

 

Now what's below is from guys, and you know that guys want to fix things. We can't help that, so here goes:

 

As to how to deal with others, DanForsman said it best above. Print that out and tape it to your bathroom mirror.

 

Making new friends is part of that process as is drawing boundaries with the existing ones. We have some fundies in our immediate family and among good friends and the deal is that we just don't discuss religion. My wife did have to tell her best friend of 61 years that if she didn't back off it would damage the friendship, and said friend did back off.

 

I'll add some unsolicited advice: If your world view does not involve any deities of any kind, I recommend avoiding the use of the word "atheist." That's a red flag to believers, and is frequently used by them as a pejorative. And when the word ends in "ist" or "ism" those who do not understand want to connect it with some sort of belief system. A frequent question is, "Well, what do you believe?" A good answer is, "I believe in the inherent goodness of man." That usually ends the conversation. If you get the "What will happen to you when you die?" question, an answer might be, "If there is a good and just god, I will be judged on what kind of person I have been. And I have done my best to be kind and honest, and to have treated others the way I want to be treated. If that's not good enough, then I'm not interested in dealing with such a god." 

 

(Sorry for all that.)

 

We hope you'll stay with us, Jane, and contribute more of your thoughts to our site.

 

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      I am sorry for your loss. It is a loss, no matter how much you or anyone want to just forget it. A huge loss. So anger, sadness, betrayal are normal healthy feelings to a degree. Would you say to a grieving widow that crying over her husband is wrong? I think not.

       Some taste of those feelings might remain with, although diminished, for the rest of your life. It is also normal and healthy to have long time emotional memory. 

          Sometimes we are tricked into believing sadness is wrong, and anger is wrong, and fear is wrong and non stop peace and bliss are the standard. That is a dangerous fantasy that just breeds unnecessaary guilt and then recharges the cycle.

         Your ideas are still heavily influenced by a kind of judicial thinking of punishing evil people. Retributive justice model. Please reconsider. " Evil" people are mostly influenced by bad upbringing and faulty biology plus faulty information. Plus the fact that you think you would be such a perfect judge...well please do reconsider that as well. The perfection of your ideas. Do not Christians you so accuse have the same mindset, my ideas ae most surely right, yours are wrong?  Be careful with that. 

         About taking one s faith away. Well that in itself is very very hard, and not the sole job of one person. There are profesional exit counselors for cults for example. So I would not worry about that.

           On a personal note, in the end, although sometimes useful, illusions are never the answer. Refusing to confront and understand reality is not a good thing. Would you say that a drug addict is better of with his addiction than with reality? Maybe you do, but it is a question. 

          I mean reality may not LOVE us in that sentimental way, but it exists and we in it. That is how I recently think about it. I wonder at existence. It gives such much more that illusions. It supports our existence, however transitory and painful it may be. We should grow out of that child like mind at one point. Even the apostle paul accused the immaturity of mind. This a mysterious .and hard process , growing up, but this is it.

         I suggest trying some form of therapy/meditation/philosophy.  Feel free to PM one time for concrete suggestions. 

      Who knows where else life will take you?

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Welcome to the Ex-Christian world, Jane.  You’re among friends here and you can say whatever is on your mind.  I think you’ll find it helpful to be among people who get what you’ve been going through.  And believe me, we get it!  Your experiences and your feelings are very, very familiar to me and no doubt to the others here too.  

 

You've already been given good advice here.  You may not be lucky enough to have friends who are not believers at all (other than us at Ex-C), but hopefully you have some friends and acquaintances who are only casual believers.  These people often don’t know or care what you do or don’t believe, and I would spend more time with them and less with the die-hard Christian types.  Most of my friends are not atheists or even agnostics but they’re not fundamentalists either and it’s easy to be around them.  Religion is just not an issue.  We have better things to do and to talk about. 

 

I can reiterate that it does get better.  Deconversion is a process: it takes time to reprogram your mind away from faith and in time you start to experience the benefits  of being free of religious dogma.  It certainly helped me to spend time here at Ex-C, reading and chatting with fellow travelers.  I hope it will help you too. Looking forward to hearing more from you!

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Hello Jane!

 

Never forget that you are an equal, entitled to your own opinions, conclusions and the respect that is due an equal.

 

Those who do not consider you an equal because of their particular beliefs are a lost cause and will fade out of your life - and the sooner the better.

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17 hours ago, Jane said:

Hi!

Just found this site by accident after searching for other former Christian's experiences.

It was very difficult for me to let go of my faith but in the end ( about 5 years ago) it brought me only unhappiness and frustration.  I just couldn't believe anymore.  I stopped believing for various reasons the top being suffering, of humans and animals ( who don't even sin) , and a God that created all that .   There are just too many things in the Bible that don't make sense, and make God look like a jerk. Prayers don't get answered either.   God has never talked to me, neither given me any sort of sign he is real.   I don't want to worship some supernatural being that treats his creation like crap.  So I no longer believe in the Bible.  If you don't believe in the Bible, you are not a Christian.  Therefore I left the church ( LCMS Lutheran then Episcopal, but that didn't work for me either) 

Now my problem is this, I realize it is nice to have faith in some supernatural GOOD God, that loves us and will put is in heaven after death where we will see all our Christian friends and loved ones again.  So, I do not want to take anyone else's faith away.  At the same time ,  I really don't know what to say or not say to my still Christian friends and relatives ( almost everyone I know).  They are worried about me, sincerely, and are afraid I will go to hell.  The pray for me, and tell me to pray harder to get my faith back, and I don't want to make them feel bad.  At the same time I just can't fake it either.  Very depressing sometimes  

 

Jane 

 

 

Welcome Jane. Sounds like good reasons to not believe in Jesus anymore. 

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19 hours ago, Jane said:

Hi!

Just found this site by accident after searching for other former Christian's experiences.

It was very difficult for me to let go of my faith but in the end ( about 5 years ago) it brought me only unhappiness and frustration.  I just couldn't believe anymore.  I stopped believing for various reasons the top being suffering, of humans and animals ( who don't even sin) , and a God that created all that .   There are just too many things in the Bible that don't make sense, and make God look like a jerk. Prayers don't get answered either.   God has never talked to me, neither given me any sort of sign he is real.   I don't want to worship some supernatural being that treats his creation like crap.  So I no longer believe in the Bible.  If you don't believe in the Bible, you are not a Christian.  Therefore I left the church ( LCMS Lutheran then Episcopal, but that didn't work for me either) 

Now my problem is this, I realize it is nice to have faith in some supernatural GOOD God, that loves us and will put is in heaven after death where we will see all our Christian friends and loved ones again.  So, I do not want to take anyone else's faith away.  At the same time ,  I really don't know what to say or not say to my still Christian friends and relatives ( almost everyone I know).  They are worried about me, sincerely, and are afraid I will go to hell.  The pray for me, and tell me to pray harder to get my faith back, and I don't want to make them feel bad.  At the same time I just can't fake it either.  Very depressing sometimes  

 

Jane 

 

 

Hi, Jane,

 

I know what you mean! Frankly, when I realized that there were no such things as gods and spirits and such, it didn't freak me out or scare me or anything, but having to deal with the societal issues is a pain! It's been 7 years (I was 52 years old when I realized it) and I'm still dealing with it. My wife knows I'm an atheist, and one of my sons. With the other son (who is a minister) it's don't-ask-don't-tell. I still go to church, for crying out loud!

 

My wife occasionally gets distraught about it. Most times are okay, but I know it's right under the surface. She wants me to start participating in worship services again. Why would I do that? Why would I lead singing or lead a prayer? Would she really want a non-believer to do that? I think she's mostly embarrassed that I don't participate in that way any more. I was outed a few years ago and jumped right back in the closet because I could tell it wasn't going to go well.

 

Anyway, I'm glad you're here. I want you to know that a lot of people here can sympathize with your situation, and I hope you find some comfort in this community.

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Thanks everyone for the nice welcome and great comments! read them all. 


Well, another well meaning friend just sent me a sermon, supposed to be encouraging since I am still recovering from my injury.  This is really what brought this on.  I got hurt, and it caused all sorts of problems for me and my family, and well meaning friends are trying to help ( they ARE also helping in real ways, other than trying to pray for me).   I live in a community of fundamentalist Christians, there is nobody else here. Some are Amish, some regular Americans.  There are no atheists or even close here.  I love living here and I love our community. I don't want to alienate anyone.   If I lived where I had grown up ( Europe) I would not have this problem, almost nobody there believes in God anymore and there are no fundamentalists.  Like I said, my father is an atheist, and he actual made fun of me when I WAS a Christian and it made me mad. When I told him I no longer am a Christian he laughed, and said " told you so" , which REALLY didn't make me feel any better.   People NEED faith to get through life.  I don't know how I am going to get through mine without it.    I went to see my dying mother in Europe last year, and she told me in one of her few lucid moments that she was afraid of death.  I told her not to worry that she was a baptized Christian and not a terrible person, so she would go to heaven for sure.  I did not believe it for a second, but I said it to make her feel better.  It did.  She died 3 weeks later. 

I am not afraid of death now.  I think we will just be gone. And if by some off chance I find myself standing in front of some god after death, I will appologize and logically explain to him or her  or it  why I thought what I thought.  If I end up in some sort of hell, there will be most of the rest of dead humanity with me.  

 

Part of my is not ready to give up totally on the supernatural.   Any of you ever watch Supernatural on Netflix?  It's my favorite tv show of all times. Maybe God is like freaking Chuck in reality. It would certainly explain a lot.    Part of me right now wants to make a deal with a cross roads demon to have a problem free life, even if in my heart I know there is no such thing....

 

Ok, we will now see, if " the other shoe is going to drop" on this forum.....

 

I joined an atheist forum a while back, and ...was kicked off after ONE day.  Why? Because I disagreed with them about almost  everything very much , other than my lack of believe in god.  

IS this what is going to happen to me here? If yes, tell me now, and I won't waste too much time and emotion on posting here. 
I will tell you some other things I believe in that generally do not go over well with people that are atheists:  I  am a political conservative. I voted for Trump, I believe 2A must be protected at all cost, I hate the illegals especially since I came here legally and did everything legally,  I don't like criminals, ghetto trash and terrorists.   Am I still welcome here?  

( other issues I am quite liberal on, like health care, animal rights and women's rights )  

 

 

 


 

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not sure I am allowed to post youtube links but this is EXACTLY the number 1 reason I can't believe in a Christian god any longer !  That song and video just says it all....

 

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1 hour ago, Jane said:

 

Ok, we will now see, if " the other shoe is going to drop" on this forum.....

 

I joined an atheist forum a while back, and ...was kicked off after ONE day.  Why? Because I disagreed with them about almost  everything very much , other than my lack of believe in god.  

IS this what is going to happen to me here? If yes, tell me now, and I won't waste too much time and emotion on posting here. 
I will tell you some other things I believe in that generally do not go over well with people that are atheists:  I  am a political conservative. I voted for Trump, I believe 2A must be protected at all cost, I hate the illegals especially since I came here legally and did everything legally,  I don't like criminals, ghetto trash and terrorists.   Am I still welcome here?  

( other issues I am quite liberal on, like health care, animal rights and women's rights )  

 

 

The main, overriding, paramount, tip-top purpose of this community is to help and support people who have deconverted from Christianity or who are somewhere in the process of deconverting, and generally provide a place for Ex-Christians to hang out. We generally don’t favor anything that gets in the way of that ‘mission’.  Arguments over politics have been known to do that and very rarely a member is shown the door because they don’t follow the rules.  We have a ‘Controversy and Conflict’ forum section that would be the place to debate/argue/fight over politics, but I think it’s now confined to premium members who contribute financially.  Political and other off-topic subjects not related to religion, Christianity and Deconversion Should only be posted there. 

 

As for your politics, you would be to the right of most members here, very likely.  Some atheist groups do seem to demand conformity with a rather left-wing set of views.  I’d say this community is not that way, in general.  In any case, ‘right’ and ‘left’ are not always as clear as they used to be.  There’s no reason why leaving Christianity requires anybody to adopt a particular political position, but people do tend to align with one political tribe or the other, for better or for worse.   It’s important to be open to differences of opinion.   Whether it’s religion or politics, I think it’s important to know why we believe what we believe, not just going along with the majority view.  

 

So while I would discourage you from starting political arguments because it’s a waste of time in my opinion, that’s your choice.  If you break rules, you’ll most likely be warned rather than kicked out.  I think highly of the administrator and moderators here and I think they’re fair and reasonable. 

 

I hope that helped!

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Hi, @Jane.

Welcome to Ex-Christian.

 

Living in the Bible-Belt of the Pacific Northwest I too felt apprehensive and a bit lonely over coming out. Briefly, it was not as bad as my fears led me to believe it would be and through taking to people I learned this place is not as hard-fast fundy as I thought. Too many folks just have a kind of "I won't be the first to say it out loud" attitude. You know - the proverbial the king has not clothes thing.

 

As far as begin kicked out - if you really work at it I'm sure you can achieve that.

 

Regarding your political views, and I have mine as well, my approach is that I want people here to support me and I want those in need of support to feel they can reach out. That said I keep a short leash on replies to political oriented posts/comments. I keep my posts, mostly, oriented towards encouraging those who are questioning their faith and/or feeling a little down over having lost it. I mean their faith - not their grip on reality. :phew:

 

That, and a little humor now and then...

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

 

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56 minutes ago, TABA said:

 

The main, overriding, paramount, tip-top purpose of this community is to help and support people who have deconverted from Christianity or who are somewhere in the process of deconverting, and generally provide a place for Ex-Christians to hang out. We generally don’t favor anything that gets in the way of that ‘mission’.  Arguments over politics have been known to do that and very rarely a member is shown the door because they don’t follow the rules.  We have a ‘Controversy and Conflict’ forum section that would be the place to debate/argue/fight over politics, but I think it’s now confined to premium members who contribute financially.  Political and other off-topic subjects not related to religion, Christianity and Deconversion Should only be posted there. 

 

As for your politics, you would be to the right of most members here, very likely.  Some atheist groups do seem to demand conformity with a rather left-wing set of views.  I’d say this community is not that way, in general.  In any case, ‘right’ and ‘left’ are not always as clear as they used to be.  There’s no reason why leaving Christianity requires anybody to adopt a particular political position, but people do tend to align with one political tribe or the other, for better or for worse.   It’s important to be open to differences of opinion.   Whether it’s religion or politics, I think it’s important to know why we believe what we believe, not just going along with the majority view.  

 

So while I would discourage you from starting political arguments because it’s a waste of time in my opinion, that’s your choice.  If you break rules, you’ll most likely be warned rather than kicked out.  I think highly of the administrator and moderators here and I think they’re fair and reasonable. 

 

I hope that helped!

Thank you!  I won't post any political stuff, I was just wondering because on the atheist forum I joined, leftists politics seemed to go along with the atheist thing.  I wasn't sure if this was another such website or not.  I was just really looking for a forum that is supportive of former Christians and having a hard time with it.  Sounds like this is it 🙂 

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MOHO:  sorry can't seem to get the quote thing working...

 

I was not aware there was a Bible belt in the Pacific NW, that's surprising!  But thanks for your comments.  I do sometimes wonder if anyone I know that is supposed to be a fundamentalist also really doesn't believe and just goes along with it because everyone else does. 

I live in the Appalachian mountains in the South.  EVERYONE is a Christian here

 

As for politics, I really don't even want to discuss politics here, but so many forums do , regardless of what exactly their purpose is supposed to be, that's why I asked

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On 8/1/2019 at 3:23 PM, Jane said:

I joined an atheist forum a while back, and ...was kicked off after ONE day.  Why? Because I disagreed with them about almost  everything very much , other than my lack of believe in god.  

IS this what is going to happen to me here? If yes, tell me now, and I won't waste too much time and emotion on posting here. 
I will tell you some other things I believe in that generally do not go over well with people that are atheists:  I  am a political conservative. I voted for Trump, I believe 2A must be protected at all cost, I hate the illegals especially since I came here legally and did everything legally,  I don't like criminals, ghetto trash and terrorists.   Am I still welcome here?  

( other issues I am quite liberal on, like health care, animal rights and women's rights )  

 

Hi Jane, welcome. 

 

The main thing is that political discussion is kept to our "clubs" section. Conflict and Controversy. There are lefts, rights, moderate's, independents, libertarians, etc. etc. Everyone's welcome to post here. But arguing politics isn't allowed outside of the Conflict and Controversy section. The site purpose is talking christianity and religion. So we like to try and keep to that purpose and keep political banter out of the main forums. 

 

Hope you enjoy. 

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7 hours ago, Jane said:

I am not afraid of death now.

 

As Mark Twain wrote: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

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WELCOME!  With some religious people the term "agnostic" is easier to digest.  That is the term I use since the existence of "god" can't be proved one way or the other.  But it probably won't make much difference what ever you call yourself.  It can be a lonely world if everyone around you are Christians.  I have learned that is the price you pay for being honest. And I could no longer live with myself if I was dishonest. Anymore I simply try to stay away from the subject.

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10 hours ago, Jane said:

.   People NEED faith to get through life. 

 

 


 

Jane, you said people NEED faith. 

 

Reality disagrees with you. A need is defined as something a person needs for immediate survival, like food, water, some sort of protection from the elements, etc. Something ALL people need, regardless of other characteristics. Or most of them anyone, of you believe in the supernatural. 

 

There, in Europe and America, a lot of atheists, who DO NOT have a belief in a specific God/gods, and they are living long lives. So faith in a god, in the literal sense, is NOT necessary. 

 

Of course, it depends on how you define it, but the narrow, christian sense at least. I suspect that this feeling of needing faith is similar to an addict NEEDING his fix. It is a real sensation, but not quite the whole picture.

 

And the fear of death. It is highly natural. We are programmed, and it is a good one, to fear death and destruction. It is normal survival instinct. What can be done about it is out of my comprehension and specialty , to say it like that, but nobody is ok without a good measure of the fear of death. So fear of death is your friend, not your foe, if it functions properly. Wanting to survive death, as such, seems natural as well. 

 

People do SEEM to need some sort of direction, however vague, a sense or model of reality.  But there a LOT of options. I am reading Aristotles Nichomaeachan ethics. Although there some references to gods, it is just blowing my mind. 

 

Regarding politics, yeah, that gets in the way. Of course, my personal sense on all these I am that, I am this, in every area of life, that it is quite dangerous and unfruitful to be extremely comitted and not open to other views/opinions. I had the same fears, still do actually. But I am not interested in people trying to impose their views on me, without proof, a long discussion, and all that. In every domain. A pursuit of truth, with a healthy dose of skepticism and the humility to recognise our own limited, imperfect, biased view seems more appropiate.

 

Hating other people though seems quite dangerous. I mean it is a feeling, a real one, determined by some sort of reality, but needs to be kept in check. I regard the idea of all that is being viewed through wisdom and compassion a good for me. Feelings, emotions, acts, mine, others, etc. It seems like a good base. I am trying to find it and build it. For now.

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Ok. so there is more.  I might as well write down all these things that have been bothering me all these years.  

 

First, what I meant by people need faith , was not that you need it to survive, obviously not.  People ( many, not all) need faith to have meaning in their lives, and hope.  That's all.  It's easier to go through life if you believe there is the ultimate superpower ( God) that will make everything better in the end.  That's simplified, but you get what I mean I hope. 

 

 

The rest of my issues:

 

I was never a "good" fundamentalist or even Christian. I worked very hard at doing what was expected of me, in some ways, but I didn't like it.  For example, I  did things for the homeless while we were members of the church ( we used to live in a large city ) like help at the shelter hand out food,  go to their camps and hand out socks and water bottles and stuff at their camps.  But I resented doing it, and I resented them to be honest.  I have never met a bunch of more useless individuals in my life!  I guess I am not very compassionate when it comes to some stuff.  These homeless where ungrateful , like some of the women with kids at the shelter had cell phones, their hair and nails done, wore nice clothes, and then they complained about the food ( which was fine, we ate it also) , and then they didn't even lift a finger to help clean up.  Some of the ones in camps where just batshit crazy , and /or on drugs, and occasionally they police would show up and arrest one because he was hiding from the law for something or another.  Mostly my thoughts were : why the hell should I be out here on a Saturday or Sunday, and deal with these assholes, when I could be at the beach with my family ?  

Same goes for mission trips.  I don't care if the entire human population of Africa dies from Ebola, as long as the animals stay alive.  It's the way I feel, I have no use for people that live in shithole countries, they are the ones that created them.  Not my problem. This of course is very contradictory to " love your neighbor" 

I am in no way a person without compassion or empathy, but in my case I like animals better than humans, except of course my family and friends.  I am a very loyal friend and love my kids and husband, and all that. It's just the rest of humanity ( unless I know them and like them) I could do without.   I think there are way too many people on the planet as it is, and I encourage any sort of birth control ( another issue with the church).  I have no problem with gay and all the rest of that stuff, since most of them are nice and productive people otherwise, at least the ones I have met, and don't reproduce.  

My taste in entertainment is very much not in line with fundamentalist Christians either, I like heavy metal, Stephen King, Harry Potter books and movies and watching Supernatural on Netflix.  

I don't believe in loving your enemy.  If someone does something bad to me, I want something bad to happen to them.  I am not very forgiving.  

I drink ( not very much but some) which is not ok with some Christians ( LCMS Lutherans are ok with it) , I don't obey some laws ( like speeding) and I definitely in the past did not obey any sex related laws ( like not have sex before marriage).  Now I do by default, married and aging lol. 

 

So maybe despite being a believer for many years, I was never really "saved" as other Christians are.  I never really agreed with some of God's rules.   The typical Christian would probably say I am a very sinful human being.  I don't really do anything wrong to anyone ( I do believe in the golden rule, don't do anything to anyone that you don't want them to do to you) , but I don't really want to help anyone either ( well unless you are family or friend, or I like you for some reason, but not just random people) . I am aware that makes me a huge hypocrite but I do have to say I did try to be a good Christian, but my heart was never in it.  I am fairly selfish and ok with that.  

 

The funny thing is nobody really knows this about me, well, except maybe my husband, surprised he puts up with me really.  But then again he is a little bit like that also.  We deserve each other. 

 

I wonder if I would have any friends left if they read the stuff I am writing here. Some maybe, but not all.  It's not always that great of an idea to be totally honest with people around you.  Better to keep things to yourself. But it sure feels good to actually write this down.  

 

Shocked? 

 

 

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I dont really see much in your attitude about life that is different from anyone elses. Except your willingness to express some things. 

 

Really, I wouldn't want the population of Africa to die of Ebola, but I'm not actively doing anything to help prevent it. I give the 'Will work for food' guy a dollar now and then but not very often. Some of the homeless are indeed batshit crazy and dont WANT a home anyway. 

 

Jane: So maybe despite being a believer for many years, I was never really "saved" as other Christians are.

 

That idea is being discussed in a thread in the Lion's Den subforum. If you were a believer for many years, and salvation is a real thing, but you weren't saved then that's on God. He dropped the  ball. If he exists. You can only give so much then the other half needs to give back. Imo, since you were a believer for many years you were just as 'saved' as any other still-believing Christian was saved. 

 

Christianity is in the business of shaming people. So lift yourself up and realize the good person you are...without Christianity. 

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Before you judge the homeless, the Muslims, the fundies, the immigrants, or anyone else, remember that "except for the chance of birth, there goes me." (My quotes)   I worked professionally with the homeless and mentally ill for several years and found a hugh % are mentally ill, or were conditioned early in life that it is their lot in life.  Very few are simply milking the system.  Native americans have a saying, "don't judge a man until you walk a mile in their shoes."   Changing the "status quo" in life is only possible when people are willing to look at all sides of issues, and not many are willing to do that with all issues.  It is easier to "pigeon hole" issues and people, and leave them there.  I have to remind myself of that every day! 

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