ChristopherHays

[Christopherhays]

Should I try to deconvert my religious family?

 

 

My family are extremely religious fundamentalists and engage in some radical activities like faith healing/exorcism, evangelizing in Muslim countries etc. Is it worth it to try to deconvert them? I’m afraid they’ll think of me differently… My parents are almost 60 and get allot of respect and enjoyment from their church so Is it horribly selfish of me to make them question their faith? My brother also recently finished an expensive college indoctrination process and is the most radical of them all. so should I present my case for why their beliefs (and judgements of me) are illogical and risk devastating the core of their identity, or just accept my role as the family disappointment without presenting my defense

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I don't actively try to deconvert people.  I don't even broach the subject with others.  If they start a conversation, I'll engage them; but, I try to let my actions show how and who I am, now.

[TABA]

First of all, welcome, Christopherhays!  I hope you’ll share your story with us in due course, but since you started with a question, I’ll give it my best shot.  

 

No, I don’t think you should try to deconvert your family, as much as you - and I - would love to see them follow in your footsteps.  We can’t deconvert anybody.  Lots of people come here and we do help them through the deconversion process, but that can only happen when they’ve taken the first steps themselves and have begun to question things.  If a believer does not have some openness to reasoned arguments, then any deconversion attempts are likely to fall on deaf ears or even to drive them deeper into faith. 

 

What you can do, depending on the situation, is quietly and politely defend your unbelief and answer questions.  Do not be patronizing and adopt an “I was so stupid for believing too but now I know better” approach.  And above all, Don’t be a Dick (my personal First Commandment).   

 

When a Christian has a loved one “fall away”, one of the things they have to deal with is the idea that he or she is now heading for Hell.  That is likely to challenge anybody’s faith to some extent at least, without you having to say a word: could a loving god really send/allow Christopherhays to burn in Hell simply for not believing in Him?  

 

It helps if you don’t fit the common Christian stereotype of an agnostic or atheist: somebody whose life enters a downward spiral of drugs, alcohol and depression because that’s what happens when you turn away from the Lord, right?  So you should take care of yourself, get comfortable with your new world-View and let them see that you are just as happy (hopefully happier) without Jesus as you were with him.  That will make people wonder.  And if at some point somebody takes you aside privately to ask you questions, you'll be ready to explain your journey.  

 

Just my take. Good luck and keep us posted!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

What works for me, doesn't necessarily work for others; just as what works for others, doesn't always work for me.  christianity did not work for me; but, in its own way, it works for my family.  After many troubling years of trying to coerce, cajole, and manipulate others into believing as I believed (the proverbial throat-shoving of my religion), I've said goodbye to all that.  What works for others, works.  Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean I need to change their minds about it.

 

This is a two way street, though; and I need to be firm and secure in my own boundaries.  If I am showing others the courtesy and respect of not trying to deconvert them; I will expect, and demand, if necessary, that they extend the same courtesy of not trying to convert, or, rather, re-convert, me.

[florduh]

Welcome, ChristopherHays!

 

People become Christians for purely emotional reasons despite what apologetic excuses they may defend with later. Any attempt to deconvert them is an intellectual exercise, not emotional. Emotions always win. Everyone must find their own way out and in their own time. I am always ready to provide any resources one may need on that journey.

[Derek]

I don't think you should actively try to deconvert them. I believe that you should just be the best version of you that you can be...and show them that you can do that without religion. It may or may not make them question their own faith...if it does, great! If it doesn't, hopefully they accept your position on it.

Oh...welcome to Ex-C

[Myrkhoos]

                Well I am going to say something I just recently find out. There is thing about cults and brainwashing and indoctrination. Steve Hassan is a name along with many others. So deprogramming/getting people out of some religious beliefs when they are in the middle of them seems the work of a professionally trained therapist/counsellor, who has at least some kind of community backing him. You seem way out of your league for this one, sorry if this offends you somehow.

                  Otherwise, I am at a fault on how to best approach them

                 

[MOHO]

Welcome to Ex-C, @Christopherhays.

 

Glad you found us!

 

Do not try to de-convert others.

1. You cannot. It's up to them to begin to question the doctrine and the whole concept of religion.
2. It's arrogant. We don't know everything and we run the risk of coming across just like evangelicals.

That said we can be prepared to answer questions should they arise and, of course, we are not obligated to allow them to run rough-shod all over us.

 

Hope to hear more from you.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

[Christopherhays]

7 hours ago, TABA said:

First of all, welcome, Christopherhays!  I hope you’ll share your story with us in due course, but since you started with a question, I’ll give it my best shot.  

 

No, I don’t think you should try to deconvert your family, as much as you - and I - would love to see them follow in your footsteps.  We can’t deconvert anybody.  Lots of people come here and we do help them through the deconversion process, but that can only happen when they’ve taken the first steps themselves and have begun to question things.  If a believer does not have some openness to reasoned arguments, then any deconversion attempts are likely to fall on deaf ears or even to drive them deeper into faith. 

 

What you can do, depending on the situation, is quietly and politely defend your unbelief and answer questions.  Do not be patronizing and adopt an “I was so stupid for believing too but now I know better” approach.  And above all, Don’t be a Dick (my personal First Commandment).   

 

When a Christian has a loved one “fall away”, one of the things they have to deal with is the idea that he or she is now heading for Hell.  That is likely to challenge anybody’s faith to some extent at least, without you having to say a word: could a loving god really send/allow Christopherhays to burn in Hell simply for not believing in Him?  

 

It helps if you don’t fit the common Christian stereotype of an agnostic or atheist: somebody whose life enters a downward spiral of drugs, alcohol and depression because that’s what happens when you turn away from the Lord, right?  So you should take care of yourself, get comfortable with your new world-View and let them see that you are just as happy (hopefully happier) without Jesus as you were with him.  That will make people wonder.  And if at some point somebody takes you aside privately to ask you questions, you'll be ready to explain your journey.  

 

Just my take. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.

[Christopherhays]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I really do appreciate it  I asked this same question on quora and people compared me to Stalin and North Korea... I hope you all understand I’m motivated by a position of love for my family rather than arrogance or selfishness. This is my first time talking to a bunch of ex-Christians and it was a good first impression, thanks 

[Myrkhoos]

Human relationships are tricky. The lines between helping and imposing are not so clear. Many times we run on different programs that tebd to balance out. But in daily life that balance is rarely very precise.  Ading to what I said, after reading asking a specialist, encouraging people to ask deep questions and consider issues from a range of viewpoints seems good.  It is not deconverting it is a slight encouragement for better understanding. It is pretty harmless I would think but I did have nasty replies from pretty harmless conversations so who knows?

[sdelsolray]

12 hours ago, Christopherhays said:

 

so should I present my case for why their beliefs (and judgements of me) are illogical and risk devastating the core of their identity, or just accept my role as the family disappointment without presenting my defense

 

 

As several previous posters have mentioned, there is a third choice. Be yourself, maintain integrity and wholesome ethics, express empathetically when appropriate and generally be nice. Perhaps your family members will notice your mature behavior, perhaps not.  You can set boundaries with them concerning religious topics. I'm not sure how you would do that precisely, but here are some sample exchanges that might help:

 

Family member: Your apostasy is embarrassing to our family. 
You: I'm sorry you feel that way.

Family member: You will burn in hell unless you get back in the fold. 
You:  I do not believe that claim.
 

Family member: You have caused me and other family members great pain and harm because of your rejection of Jesus Christ. 
You:  I love all of you and I deeply appreciate the care and love you have given me. Thank you.  Still, I will not be codependent with you concerning this.
 
Family member:  You have let the Devil into your life! 
You:  I realize you believe this.  I do not. 
 
Family member: Unless your straighten out and get right with God, we will kick you out of the family. 
You:  I would consider that an immoral act. 

 

Etc.

[older]

13 hours ago, MOHO said:

Welcome to Ex-C, @Christopherhays.

 

Glad you found us!

 

Do not try to de-convert others.

1. You cannot. It's up to them to begin to question the doctrine and the whole concept of religion.
2. It's arrogant. We don't know everything and we run the risk of coming across just like evangelicals.

That said we can be prepared to answer questions should they arise and, of course, we are not obligated to allow them to run rough-shod all over us.

 

Hope to hear more from you.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

 

^  ^ ^ !

[Weezer]

Welcome!  A lot of good advice above.  You would not destroy the core of their identity.   But they will likely try to shame and guilt you for leaving the faith.  And tell you the devil has captured your soul, or something similar.   My father told me there was no more hope for me, after a discussion of why I left.  My mother cried and said, "how could you do this too us?"  

Be courteous, but what ever you do, do NOT give one inch.  They will likely take that as a weakness and continue to badger you.  If all your family and friends are of that faith, look for other social support.  It can get lonely out here.  But it's better than living a lie.

[Weezer]

On 8/2/2019 at 5:12 AM, Christopherhays said:

 or just accept my role as the family disappointment without presenting my defense

 

 

Basically i said this already, but Offer your defense only if you have a really good handle on what it is.  Any wavering will encourage them to keep trying to undermine you.   And yes, you will almost surely have to accept the role as a family disappointment. BEST WISHES.

[Dreamer]

3 hours ago, Weezer said:

Welcome!  A lot of good advice above.  You would not destroy the core of their identity.   But they will likely try to shame and guilt you for leaving the faith.  And tell you the devil has captured your soul, or something similar.   My father told me there was no more hope for me, after a discussion of why I left.  My mother cried and said, "how could you do this too us?"  

Be courteous, but what ever you do, do NOT give one inch.  They will likely take that as a weakness and continue to badger you.  If all your family and friends are of that faith, look for other social support.  It can get lonely out here.  But it's better than living a lie.

I agree with a lot of the good advice above. I believe actively deconverting others would make us just like the people that formerly put us in the position of forced conversion. As much as I would love to stay connected with a few of my family members (definitely not my parents though), I would rather maintain a strained relationship with a family member than abuse them the same as has been done to me. 

I also wanted to comment about how Wheezer stated "my mother cried and said, 'how could you do this to us?'" I've noticed how that question is a staple of Christian parents everywhere. My parents play the victim in every conversation as well. I suppose when believers get that far down the road, there is no reasoning with them because they will take everything personally and think that everything is an attack on their beliefs and faith.

[Weezer]

I just remembered something else my father believed, and likely is an honest belief with others.  They believe the scripture (I don't remember book, chapter, verse) that says, "bring up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it," is talking about religious faith.  And when their child, or children, leaves the faith, they feel like they have failed, or have done something wrong.  When my sister left, Dad was hurt, but then when I also left, he felt like a failure.  I felt really bad about it, but couldn't live a lie.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 8/5/2019 at 8:52 PM, Weezer said:

I just remembered something else my father believed, and likely is an honest belief with others.  They believe the scripture (I don't remember book, chapter, verse) that says, "bring up a child in the way they should go, and when they are old, they will not depart from it," is talking about religious faith.  And when their child, or children, leaves the faith, they feel like they have failed, or have done something wrong.  When my sister left, Dad was hurt, but then when I also left, he felt like a failure.  I felt really bad about it, but couldn't live a lie.

When I told my mom that I no longer believed in jesus, her exact words were, "That's yet another way I've failed you."  Granted, with her it was also a means of guilting me; but she really did, and still does, feel like a failure.

[Myrkhoos]

50 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

When I told my mom that I no longer believed in jesus, her exact words were, "That's yet another way I've failed you."  Granted, with her it was also a means of guilting me; but she really did, and still does, feel like a failure.

Depending on the particular version of religion, but feeling like a failure seems like a dogma in christianity. Of course this is counterbalanced by the gratitude towards Jesus, but still. It is just my gut feeling not a thourough analysis.

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, Myrkhoos said:

Depending on the particular version of religion, but feeling like a failure seems like a dogma in christianity.

 

I don't remember the name of the song, but as a child there was a song we sang that had a phrase,  "..........such a worm as I."  It is the self fulfilling prophecy of original sin.   If you believe you are a "worm", you will feel like a worm, and look to the holy savior to redeem you.  The religious "police" have used that tactic for centuries to keep people in subjection.

[Myrkhoos]

15 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

I don't remember the name of the song, but as a child there was a song we sang that had a phrase,  "..........such a worm as I."  It is the self fulfilling prophecy of original sin.   If you believe you are a "worm", you will feel like a worm, and look to the holy savior to redeem you.  The religious "police" have used that tactic for centuries to keep people in subjection.

There is a psalm , which in Romanian is something like, and I am a worm, not a human. Maybe that is where it was inspired.