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Another Walmart Shooting

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Last week a Walmart about 20 minutes from me had a mass shooting. There were 2 fatalities and 1 responding office was shot. His vest saved his life. The shooter was killed by police.

 

Now another mass shooting at another Walmart with multiple casualties and fatalities in El Paso Texas. I recently attended the World Golf Championship in Memphis. Like all major sporting events every person was checked by security, no handbags were allowed, everyone was checked with metal detectors.

 

Are we going to have to do something like that to enter shopping malls and large department stores in the future?  I have a handgun carry permit, but I don’t carry it, but I think I’m going to rethink that.

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Ho hum. Another day in 'Murica.

 

As to carrying, what about this: You carry. You see a bad guy with a gun. You pull out yours and you both start shooting at each other. A cop comes along and you are the first person he sees. What might happen then?

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'xactly. "Carry so you can defend yourself" may sound good, and if you're trained in proper gun usage, it may well work if the shooter and you are alone. But as soon as other people enter the mix...

 

...like they said in one of the cracked.com articles (paraphrasing) "So you're sitting in the cinema and suddenly a shooter starts blasting away. Being a trained badass your gun flies into your hand and you shoot back at the dude with the gun you vaguely see in the dark. A split second later the third person has their gun ready and they see two dudes with guns. And so on and so on. That's not a solution to the shootings problem, it's a supercritical solution of bullets crystallizing into tombstones."

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The alternative is to die at the hands of a madman with no way of defending myself. I’d rather die with a gun in my hand, trying to stop a madman, than die unarmed and defenseless at the hands of a lunatic.

 

The chances of surviving a random shooter is virtually zero if you are not armed. I’d prefer to take my chances being armed even if the odds are low, that’s still better than being executed. 

 

Everyone has to decide that for themselves. 

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I'm not an expert on game theory but I guess your statement is a perfect example for it.

 

From your personal perspective you're absolutely right, your argument that you feel the need to defend yourself is solid. From a societal point of view it's detrimental because the more guns there are in circulation...

 

Now, if everyone felt they can trust each other, everyone could just get rid of their guns and the entire country would be much safer. But if some secretly keep their guns?

 

Reality sucks.

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I live in the general vicinity of Memphis TN. There has been 33 shooting on the interstate loop around the city this year, with several fatalities. There is a murder, and usually multiple murders & shootings, every single day. It’s almost like living in a war zone, and this is going on all over the country. 

 

This stuff didn’t happen when I was a kid growing up in N/W Indiana. My sister informs me the same thing is happening in the city I grew up in. Much of it can be traced back to gang violence and these gangs are now virtually in every community of any size all over the country. Our constitutional rights make it virtually impossible to stop the violence. 

 

The Southside of Chicago is a virtual war zone and has been for many years, and there appears to be no way to stop the violence and senseless killing. And like a disease it has spread all over the country and it seems there is no cure for it.    

 

Police tactics that work work are often declared unconstitutional. We have become victims of our Constitution and it’s guaranteed freedoms. What makes us free is also what is killing many of our citizens and many of them are kids. 

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Ditto my town. We call the nightly local TV news "The Murder Report."  Just recently two kids got killed in separate shootings by bullets intended for someone else. And the communities where this most often happens don't trust the police and won't help them find the perps. The leaders of these communities want to start a diversion program based on things that have worked elsewhere, while the police chief wants the $200K to be spent on a new assault vehicle instead. So far the mayor and city council support the chief.

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13 hours ago, older said:

the police chief wants the $200K to be spent on a new assault vehicle instead.

 

truly inspiring

 

Sometimes, not often enough, I think that we get the leaders that we deserve and the media that we deserve. Things are just as the should be and I should just live my life and adapt.

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On 8/4/2019 at 12:57 AM, Thurisaz said:

'xactly. "Carry so you can defend yourself" may sound good, and if you're trained in proper gun usage, it may well work if the shooter and you are alone. But as soon as other people enter the mix...

 

...like they said in one of the cracked.com articles (paraphrasing) "So you're sitting in the cinema and suddenly a shooter starts blasting away. Being a trained badass your gun flies into your hand and you shoot back at the dude with the gun you vaguely see in the dark. A split second later the third person has their gun ready and they see two dudes with guns. And so on and so on. That's not a solution to the shootings problem, it's a supercritical solution of bullets crystallizing into tombstones."

Know a few men who would fantasize this. The whole “hero” fetish. “Look at me, and my big gun.” 

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And something that the heroes don't think about is the legal expenses that will arise after the action is over. The probability of said hero needing a lawyer is very high, and the fees for a good one will likely run to the tens of thousands. A lawyer once told me that taking a case all the way to court is a minimum of $100 grand.

 

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On 8/21/2019 at 2:58 PM, cb13 said:

Know a few men who would fantasize this. The whole “hero” fetish. “Look at me, and my big gun.” 

 

Well nothing wrong about wanting to be a hero(ine) - who wouldn't want that? - but there are ways that one better... not try out in real life. Especially not if the chosen way easily puts others' lives on the line.

 

That said, there's something about the US and guns that is not easily explained. So many simple explanations about what to do to resolve that clusterfuck but they usually don't work once you think a bit more about them. I've seen web authors state that for US folks guns are basically another kind of porn, which may or may not be true... but I do think that at least aims in the right general direction. It's certainly not just that there are so many guns around - otherwise countries like Switzerland would be right up there in the carnage statistics (and on the other hand, "more guns = less crime" is also wrong, or else we Krauts with our very strict gun control would just drown in crime...). Something makes US citizens want to use their guns against fellow humans almost literally at the drop of a hat. Whatever it is.

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     Well, we're murdery, but not *that* murdery otherwise we'd all be dead and the problem would solve itself. ;)  Most of us are actually pretty nice. :)

 

          mwc

 

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On 8/22/2019 at 6:34 PM, Thurisaz said:

That said, there's something about the US and guns that is not easily explained.

 

Many decades ago when I was an undergrad student I read a book titled, Violence in America. (I don't think it was the same as current books with the same title. The book was some sort of formal study with numerous footnotes and references.) This was an historical account that traced our history beginning with the first settlers onward. The hypothesis was that the country was settled and founded as a result of violence, by people for whom violence was almost a norm. Thus it is bred into our national psyche.

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On 8/26/2019 at 6:30 AM, older said:

 

Many decades ago when I was an undergrad student I read a book titled, Violence in America. (I don't think it was the same as current books with the same title. The book was some sort of formal study with numerous footnotes and references.) This was an historical account that traced our history beginning with the first settlers onward. The hypothesis was that the country was settled and founded as a result of violence, by people for whom violence was almost a norm. Thus it is bred into our national psyche.

 

Ah but then it's hardly like other countries had a recent history of peace and rainbows and unicorns is it? *cough* world wars in Europe *cough*... shouldn't we Germans above all others have developed a love for violence then?

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Touché Thurisaz. I think the answer to violence in America will never be found. Tonight's news reports that 20 children have been shot and killed in the St. Louis city area so far this year. In Chicago 309 people have been killed this year. 

 

As I sit here pondering this, dozens of causes come to mind, the solutions to which require major changes to our culture, our government, and our attitudes toward ourselves and others.

 

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Pretty much based on gut feelings but I think it's at least to a large amount a combo of 1. yes, wide-spread gun possession and 2. - at least compared to us - an enormous amount of machismo and prudeness, simultaneously. Gotta be a real man(TM) right? A real man never accepts a loss or else he's a loser and will stay one for the rest of his life; a real man fights for what he wants and grants no mercy. I'm exaggerating a bit here but I trust you understand what I mean. And Orwell wasn't that wrong I think when he had the heroine in 1984 postulate that sexual repression leads to an enormous amount of energy that must be spent somehow, if not for banging. And if you channel it correctly...

Maybe that infamous concept of American exceptionalism plays into that too. You know, that idea that the US are better than everyone else and the last best hope for the planet et cetera ad nauseam.

Last time we Germans thought like that... well we both know how that ended. And how many tens of millions of lives it cost.

 

Just my 2 cents, mind you. May be correct, may be not. But perhaps it at least gives someone food for thought.

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I believe the number of wounded and killed in mass shootings pale in comparison to the number of people that are killed or wounded daily across America. Gangs would seem to be the primary offenders. Gang violence is nationwide and out of control. It is now even a problem in small rural towns. Shootings and fatalities are a common daily occurrence in the area where I live.

 

Gangs need to be treated like organized crime, because that’s essentially what they are. 

 

 

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