midniterider Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Every human from every civilization is born with an appendix that often needs to be removed because it gets infected. We can live without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 7, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted September 7, 2019 1 hour ago, midniterider said: Every human from every civilization is born with an appendix that often needs to be removed because it gets infected. We can live without it. They were never True Appendixes to begin with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 8, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2019 @OrdinaryClay, please support your claim that the need for spiritual answers is universal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 22 hours ago, Weezer said: Google the HADZA TRIBE. No supreme being, no war, an egalitarian society that has evidently existed for thousands of years with no Jesus, or any other "god" man to lead them. Living peacefully with respect for each other, and life in general, is rational, logical thinking that wise men are capable of figuring out. Do a thorough study of this tribe and see if you find a contradiction to your theory. Thank you! I will indeed do some research here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 21 hours ago, midniterider said: Does the culture of atheism build a pillar around spirituality? Yes. And even more importantly so do Materialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 20 hours ago, midniterider said: Every human from every civilization is born with an appendix that often needs to be removed because it gets infected. We can live without it. Thank you for the anatomy lesson. I feel so much more enlightened. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 21 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: The heart of the problem is that there is no universality of spiritual culture. You are now making a positive claim. Evidence? And while you're at it please define "universality" "spiritual" and "culture". LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 20 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: Ok I will bow to your superior wisdom and knowledge and let you define "evidence" and "facts". If we agree with your definitions we can go from there. I don't want to or need to define either. They are both adequately defined in the western legal systems. Do you agree to these definitions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 21 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I won't split hares with you. Indeed. I don't and won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrdinaryClay Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 20 hours ago, Joshpantera said: It's no more or less insightful than Forest Gump, and ultimately, Forest Gump stupid as far as that goes.... Oh. Do you believe and claim eastern mysticism is "smart"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted September 8, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said: Oh. Do you believe and claim eastern mysticism is "smart"? Smarter than judeo-christian contradictory nonsense. At least they call something infinite, eternal, transcendent and immanent and then follow through with the necessary implications. Where as judeo-christians make the same claims about god then proceed head long into contradicting their own claims. That's pretty stupid from my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 8, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said: You are now making a positive claim. Evidence? And while you're at it please define "universality" "spiritual" and "culture". LOL I support this claim by pointing out that Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Rastafarianism, and Santeria all exist, among other forms of spiritual outlooks. Variety demonstrates an absence of universality. For definitions: https://lmgtfy.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said: Yes. And even more importantly so do Materialists. Whoa, that's scary. Glad I'm neither of those things Could you describe the atheist/materialist pillar of spirituality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said: Thank you for the anatomy lesson. I feel so much more enlightened. LOL Glad to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Joshpantera said: Smarter than judeo-christian contradictory nonsense. At least they call something infinite, eternal, transcendent and immanent and then follow through with the necessary implications. Where as judeo-christians make the same claims about god then proceed head long into contradicting their own claims. That's pretty stupid from my view. I dont think sending your creations to hell because they behave the way you programmed them to behave is very smart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted September 8, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said: You are now making a positive claim. Evidence? And while you're at it please define "universality" "spiritual" and "culture". LOL You have to be shitting me. After me giving you what standards I'd expect, only for you to reject them, and I suggest you offer your definitions so we can agree on them, you have the cheek to ask TRP for his definitions. For what - so you can turn around and tell him that he doesn't understand shit? Talk about playing a foul game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted September 8, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 8, 2019 7 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said: I don't want to or need to define either. They are both adequately defined in the western legal systems. Do you agree to these definitions? You have a nice little game going on here. You asked me what I'd accept. I told you, you said I didn't understand so I suggested you define and see if that's acceptable. Now you are off pointing to legal definitions without bothering to actually provide them. I would say no I don't accept legal definitions because I am not familiar with them. I will accept scientific definitions. If they happen to be the same as legal definitions then yahoo. If not, then too bad. I'm trying to honestly have a conversation while you are beating around the proverbial burning bush. Like our ex friend LuthAMF, whenever someone asks you to back a claim you deflect, then tell them their understanding is wrong. Different poster, same shit. That being said, let me try again. Definitions: Fact (Scientific) an observation that has been confirmed repeatedly and is accepted as true (although its truth is never final) Evidence the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid (In science this is supporting a particular Theory or Hypothesis over any others) If you don't agree with the definitions no use continuing because I'm not going to accept your claim am I? If you agree to those definitions then fire away with supporting your claim, which was "There's an adversary. satan deceives people into believing things that are more utilitarian for their life at the moment. . " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 OC has a long history here. Two of his tenets/morals are (i) rational discourse rules do not apply to me and (ii) do as I say and not as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Christians come here and expect us to just accept without question the bullshit that they present. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 In the course of my religious study, which eventually led to deconverting, I did a pretty extensive study of the information available on life and teachings of Jesus. It is interesting that so many of the "Christians" that attempt to argue their case here, do NOT display the respectful, loving characteristics attributed to Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEG Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Weezer said: In the course of my religious study, which eventually led to deconverting, I did a pretty extensive study of the information available on life and teachings of Jesus. It is interesting that so many of the "Christians" that attempt to argue their case here, do NOT display the respectful, loving characteristics attributed to Jesus. What would the respectful, loving Jesus do? He might: call his enemies “blind fools” (Matthew 23:17) condemn whole cities to hell, fire, and brimstone for not listening to him (Matthew 11:21) curse a tree for not bearing fruit out of season (Mark 11:14) hate his parents (Luke 14:26) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, TEG said: What would the respectful, loving Jesus do? He might: call his enemies “blind fools” (Matthew 23:17) condemn whole cities to hell, fire, and brimstone for not listening to him (Matthew 11:21) curse a tree for not bearing fruit out of season (Mark 11:14) hate his parents (Luke 14:26) Flip over tables (MT 21:12 etc) Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.35For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.… (Mt 10:34 etc) (biblegateway.com, biblehub.com) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted September 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2019 And he might also say: The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] There is no commandment greater than these.” Mark 12:31 Between that and: But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ” Luke 19:27 There is no wonder at the lack of cohesiveness even in Christianity, let along a universal human religion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted September 10, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted September 10, 2019 My favorite is when jesus was hanging on the cross and he said, "Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 16 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: My favorite is when jesus was hanging on the cross and he said, "Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?!" That is a sarcastic misquote. If he actually existed, I don't think he ever saw himself as God. He was the "son of god." According to the story, he was conditioned to believe that. The Catholic church later invented the "God head," and twisted many things around, and fabricated stuff to suit their wants. To explain how I came to my conclusions, I looked at all the info I could find about Jesus, including the Gnostic gospels. I would not bet my life savings that he actually existed, but eventually decided he may have. If he existed, I believe many things attributed to him were fabricated. Being human, he was inconsistent, but I looked at all the info I could find and tried to sift out what seemed most consistent. The sermon on the mount pretty well sums it up. Yes, he was a divisive figure. He was confronting established religion. That could get you killed, and pit relatives against each other. He was running rampant over some of their rigid rules and traditions, and self serving practices such as the "businesses" in The temple. He advocated some rational thinking about forsaking the Sabbath. And stoning the harlot. He elevated the role of women. He was a liberal in that time period. Even if he did not exist, the story about him pushed the rigid religion of that time period toward more rational thinking. Even if he did not exist, I have respect for the overall story. Like Martin Luther later on, "he" wasn't perfect, but pushed us one step closer to rational thinking in religion, and one step further away from corrupt authoritarian rule. When you are making fun of religion, don't automatically throw everything about it out with the bath water. Their are truths to be found within. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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