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Rickswordfish

This article scares me

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It's flaws are the same as any O.T. prophecy. Write about historical events as if they are still future events. Voila, prophecy fulfilled!

 

Seriously, nothing to worry about here

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What makes you think that the book of Ezekiel was written before Tyre was invaded? It is easy to write "prophecies" in retrospect. It is like the entire book of Exodus (none of which happened in actual history) which is made to sound like it fits into history, but is completely invented. Daniel is another made-up book. The common thought is (others on this site can confirm or deny) that most of the writings were invented around the Babylonian exile in order to give the people a feeling of continuity from ancient times. This is also likely where the "star of David" originated, from Babylonian magic rather than anything to do with David. The Revelation purports to talk about the end time, but seems to clearly point to Rome as the evil thing, and they are not really a world power anymore.

 

Other examples: The "prophecy" about the virgin birth of Jesus isn't related to Jesus at all, but to some unknown kid born or a girl centuries earlier, not a virgin. The "prophecy" of Herod's slaughter of children has no bearing at all on Herod, and the prophecy even says that the children were kidnapped and later returned, not killed. The Bible is full of made up stuff. Apologists ignore that and start with the idea that it is true, then look for things to make it seem factual. 

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1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said:

Please read the article before responding

After reading, I am not seeing how the responses you have received are flawed.

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Why do you assume we didn't read it? Because we had a different reaction? You seem predisposed to believing things and then fearing them despite evidence to the contrary.

None of the apologist claims are new to us. There is nothing we overlooked. Many of us spent decades espousing those beliefs, and found good reasons (like the ones I mentioned) for leaving belief and embracing fact.

 

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Rickswordfish, have you looked at the big picture of religions?  For a long time i tried to decide which were true, or false, and finally backed up and looked at the overall history of religions.  Decided they are all man made myths, and some are downright scams.

 

Beneath your icon you say you no longer have any gods.  But it sounds like you still have some doubts.

 

8 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

 can someone read it and point out its flaws to make me feel better?

 

Also, we can give you information, and encouragement, but no one can "make" you feel better.  That's up to you.  HANG IN THERE!

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Did you ever introduce yourself in the introduction section?  If you did, I missed it.  If you didn't,  please do so.  It helps to know something about who we are talking to.

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13 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

Please read the article before responding

 

You seriously need to stop reading apologetic nonsense and start reading accredited historians. Fear is how religion gets and keeps people. Fear is their weapon of choice and what allows them to survive. 

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21 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

http://apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=13&article=1790 its about how the prophecy of the destruction of tyre was fulfilled can someone read it and point out its flaws to make me feel better?

 

Ask Jesus to point out the flaws. The ever silent, ever absent, Jesus Christ. 

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21 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

Please help me

Have you considered it might be time to help yourself? You're like a recovering alcoholic hanging out in a bar just to make sure there isn't really something good about alcoholism. Stop reading apologist crap.

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I covered the prophesy of Tyre at length in the Lions Den once. I might report some of the stuff here when I get more time, but consider this meanwhile:

 

The prophesy says that Tyre will be utterly destroyed never to be found or remembered.

 

Here we are remembering it, and go to google maps and type in Tyre. Viola! Tyre, alive and well. The city has been basically inhabited through it's entire history.

 

There are all sorts of apologetics about how it fits, but give me time and motivation and I can apologetic the Star Wars prophesy of the chosen one.

 

Also consider that some of the things that are being prophesied are not that extraordinary. Considering Ezekiel lived in the time of King Neb, and that Tyre had been attacked regularly , and that it was likely that King Neb would attack Tyre, making a prophesy of such is not amazing. I could make a prophesy about Trump saying something stupid about global warming and it would come true!

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I wrote this some time ago - there is much more to be covered, but its a start.

 

I have read those apologetics. When you point out Tyre is an thriving inhabited city today you know what they say? "Well its not ancient Tyre of the prophesy".... so at which point did Tyre stop being Tyre? 

 

At which point after these events did Tyre stop being Tyre?

 

·         Siege of Tyre (586–573 BC) by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar II

·         Siege of Tyre (332 BC) by the Macedonians under Alexander the Great

·         Siege of Tyre (315–314 BC) by Antigonus I Monophthalmus

·         Siege of Tyre (996–998) by the Fatimids

·         Siege of Tyre (1111–1112) by the Crusaders under Baldwin I of Jerusalem

·         Siege of Tyre (1124) by the Venetians

·         Siege of Tyre (1187) by the Ayyubids under Saladin

 

Plus others not mentioned. 

 

19 For thus saith the Lord God; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

20 When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

21 I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord God.

 

You've read apologetics, now I give you reality: The purple circle is where the Island was - Alexanders causeway caused sediment to build up connecting the Island to the mainland. The port you can see is near where the old port was located. We can see two sets of old ruins. Read versus 19-21 that I posted and ask yourself whether you can honestly say the prophesy was fulfilled without resorting to apologetics to explain stuff that doesn't quite fit. If that prophesy fits reality then the first two chapters of genesis describes evolution (And I have heard apologetics that say exactly that!)

 

Does this look like an uninhabited city that people search for but cannot find? Seriously? Even if no city was built in the EXACT location of where it always has been we can still search for and find the ruins!

 

Tyre.jpg

 

Here is a blog about problems with the 'prophesy'.

 

https://rarebible.wordpress.com/2009/04/12/ezekiels-false-prophecy-against-tyre/

 

I have read a full detailed rebuttal, I'll see if I can find it for you.

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59 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I covered the prophesy of Tyre at length in the Lions Den once. I might report some of the stuff here when I get more time, but consider this meanwhile:

 

I'm afraid facts don't have any impact on such a mindset. 

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18 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

Im bipolar, im on two medications

Exactly my point. Religion is not the problem, it is just the current focus of a larger disorder. Keep taking the meds and get some follow up appointments to stay current with what is an ever changing condition. Best of luck to you.

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1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said:

Is there anyway to know whos wrong and right

I think that has been demonstrated. However, once again, that is not really the problem at hand.

 

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3 hours ago, florduh said:

I think that has been demonstrated. However, once again, that is not really the problem at hand.

 

What do you mean demonstrated?

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20 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

What do you mean demonstrated?

Thoroughly debunked, and it didn't make any difference.

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Exactly.

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On 8/17/2019 at 3:25 PM, Rickswordfish said:

Please help me

Nobody can do that but yourself in this case. The first step is to stop reading apologist crap and start reading historians like Bart Ehrman, Elaine Pagels, Robert Price and others. Trust me you'll feel much better when you're able to look at the Bible and have the same reaction you likely do to the Qur'an or any other non Christian text: meh. It's an accident of birth, being brought up and brainwashed in a Christian family or later "being saved" and having a fear of hell control you that is the real culprit here. No I didn't read the article but I grew up in an extremely brainwashed fundamentalist church and I'm telling you there's hope if you educate yourself and practice critical thinking skills. And stop reading this apologist stuff.  You will return to it again and again if fear controls you. The antidote to that fear is education and logical rational reasoning. 

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