pantheory Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 On 8/19/2019 at 4:37 PM, Rickswordfish said: Im bipolar, im on two medications Honesty draws respect since few have the ability to seriously express it in detail. When your mania strikes, stand up and lasso the Heifer. When your depression strikes, lay down and lasso the heifer. Life is as simple as that. If you take your medications regularly you may have a good chance, like most, of reaching your goals. Change your goals as you yourself change, but like anyone else follow your laudable dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 19 hours ago, florduh said: Exactly. So youre saying the bible cant be debunked and i should stop trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said: So youre saying the bible cant be debunked and i should stop trying It's not as simple as that. Certain parts of the bible can be categorically debunked because it stands in direct opposition to observable reality. I would say the Tyre prophesy has been debunked, as has the Messiah prophesy etc, but if you want to shoehorn in unrelated themes and make it work in your mind you can. I can also make flat earth work in my mind if I was so inclined, but its still false. Assume the Tyre prophesy is true and it actually happened as prophesised (Which it didn't, and Ezekiel says as much a few chapters over so the bible debunks itself!), but say its true. So what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Because of the shroud of turin i believe jesus was some special being so i beleive the bible was right about him being killed, burried and resurrected however I deeply question the bible being the word of god (especially since the book of revelation is a failed prophecy) how ever im still open to the possibility of it being the word of god, finding out if the prophecies of the old testament were fulfilled can help me make up my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 21, 2019 Super Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2019 Whatever gets thoroughly debunked is ignored. Now it's the thoroughly debunked Shroud of Turin. I'm not playing this game anymore. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have to agree with Florduh here. We've driven these topics into the ground. There is nothing that links the shroud of Turin to Jesus apart from the Catholic churches say so. Considering all their other bullshit I think we can safety chuck that one in the dust bin. The bible says that snakes and donkeys spoke. Do you believe that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: I have to agree with Florduh here. We've driven these topics into the ground. There is nothing that links the shroud of Turin to Jesus apart from the Catholic churches say so. Considering all their other bullshit I think we can safety chuck that one in the dust bin. The bible says that snakes and donkeys spoke. Do you believe that? Ive done days of research on the shroud of turin and have discovered mainly 3 things 1. The carbon date has been questioned 2. The image on it defies scientific explanation 3. The blood on it is from someone who endured polytrauma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Anyway this isnt about the shroud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said: Ive done days of research on the shroud of turin and have discovered mainly 3 things 1. The carbon date has been questioned 2. The image on it defies scientific explanation 3. The blood on it is from someone who endured polytrauma And so what? That's evidence Jesus existed? Read Ehrmans's Jesus Interrupted. The only reason why you believe Jesus may have existed is because you either grew up in the Christian tradition or became a believer and are convinced these "facts" actually have something to them. Trust me you'd be likely to think Zeus is to be worshipped or pink pandas secretly run this universe if you had grown up in a culture or society around yourself that believed this was truth. The only difference between those of us here and believers is that we have opened our eyes to the Great Big Fairytale that is the church and the Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said: Ive done days of research on the shroud of turin and have discovered mainly 3 things 1. The carbon date has been questioned 2. The image on it defies scientific explanation 3. The blood on it is from someone who endured polytrauma Reputable sources for any of this? This is silly. Sorry to make light of it, but it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 I know this by doing hours of research and listening to facts and logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said: I know this by doing hours of research and listening to facts and logic Define facts and logic could you. Also where do you find these? This is why critical thinking skills are vital. Logic isn't something you listen to, it's processing in your own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 I dont want to fight about this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 22, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said: I know this by doing hours of research and listening to facts and logic I'm going to categorically disagree with you here. Find me a source that definitively proves there is any relation between the shroud and Jesus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 7:08 PM, Rickswordfish said: I dont think its been debunked and i dint kniw if somethimg like this can be debunked If you don't want it debunked, it will not be debunked. The best thing you can do at this time is to stay on your medication, keep Doctor/therapist appointments, and get a life outside religion for a while. If you are still into prayer, pray for clear, logical thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 The main thing that concerns me is that the prophecy states that many nations would attack tyre which is what happened over time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 24, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said: The main thing that concerns me is that the prophecy states that many nations would attack tyre which is what happened over time Tell me which nation that is not true for, especially in the ME where nations attacked each other every other year? I could prophesy lo and behold the US will keep dropping bombs in the middle East and I'd be right. Tyre had been attacked multiple times hundreds of years before the prophesy and you think it's amazing someone wrote that many nations would attack it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 17 hours ago, Rickswordfish said: The main thing that concerns me is that the prophecy states that many nations would attack tyre which is what happened over time To my mind this is the equivalent of someone prophesying that humans will be humans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 Is the current city of tyre where the ancient city of tyre was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said: Is the current city of tyre where the ancient city of tyre was? Look at the map I carefully highlighted for you on page one. The current city is all over and around the old city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 This is from the article In approximately A.D. 1170, a Jewish traveler named Benjamin of Tudela published a diary of his travels. “Benjamin began his journey from Saragossa, around the year 1160 and over the course of thirteen years visited over 300 cities in a wide range of places including Greece, Syria, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Persia” (Benjamin of Tudela, n.d.). In his memoirs, a section is included concerning the city of Tyre. From Sidon it is half a day’s journey to Sarepta (Sarfend), which belongs to Sidon. Thence it is a half-day to New Tyre (Sur), which is a very fine city, with a harbour in its midst.... There is no harbour like this in the whole world. Tyre is a beautiful city.... In the vicinity is found sugar of a high class, for men plant it here, and people come from all lands to buy it. A man can ascend the walls of New Tyre and see ancient Tyre, which the sea has now covered, lying at a stone’s throw from the new city. And should one care to go forth by boat, one can see the castles, market-places, streets, and palaces in the bed of the sea (1907, emp. added.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2019 Yes part of the old city is under the sea. So what? We know it was razed by Alexander the Great. What about the parts that have been built over and around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopherhays Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Did anyone address how God acts in this story? He kills an innocent city for saying (apparently in unison) “we'll prosper now that Jerusalem’s in ruin.” But God doesn’t even kill the people who said that! He kills the innocent people in the city several hundred years later! Besides that, it should go without saying that a prophecy is only valid if it’s- #1 written before the events occur #2 accurate and not open to interpretation #3 falsifiable No bible prophecy is valid. God could’ve provided good evidence if he wanted, but instead we’re piecing together incomplete goatskin scrolls written hundreds of years later by barely literate sheep herders. Did you know that the code of Hammurabi is over 1000 years older than the book of ezekiel, and written in the same area? Hammurabi’s original code still exists today and there are several original tablets and the famous basalt stele that all date back to before Moses. In contrast, the oldest ezekiel scroll fragments date back to the first century bc. About 500 years after the book was allegedly written and several hundred years after Alexander’s siege of Tyre. These oldest fragments make up less than half of the book of ezekiel and contain a few notable variants. My point is it’s possible to preserve ancient texts but the book of ezekiel is not well preserved at all. The earliest manuscripts we have do not match the words you read in your bible today and even before that the book was undoubtably altered by the 500 years of scribal dictation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopherhays Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I should say too that Kyle Butt is not a good source of knowledge. He’s an expert at dodging questions and misrepresenting data. He never deals with legitimate criticism unless he can straw-man it first. He’s apparently an expert at rebutting atheists but I’ve never seen a debate where he didn’t stack the deck beforehand. I actually do have allot of respect for him as a Christian debater, but that’s because of his clever tactics rather than his arguments. You should be careful when reading authors with such strong biases. look up his debate with Bart Ehrman on YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickswordfish Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Isnt the ancient city of tyre buried underneath the current one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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