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Rickswordfish

This article scares me

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From the article Taking these events into consideration, it is obvious that many nations continued to come against the island city, that it was destroyed on numerous occasions, and that it became a place for fishing, fulfilling Ezekiel’s prediction about the spreading of nets. Furthermore, it is evident that the multiple periods of destruction and rebuilding of the city have long since buried the Phoenician city that came under the condemnation of Ezekiel. The Columbia Encyclopedia, under its entry for Tyre, noted: “The principal ruins of the city today are those of buildings erected by the Crusaders. There are some Greco-Roman remains, but any left by the Phoenicians lie underneath the present town” (“Tyre,” 2006, emp. added).

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On 8/17/2019 at 2:28 PM, Rickswordfish said:

can someone read it and point out its flaws to make me feel better?

Clearly, the answer is "no."

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On 8/22/2019 at 11:56 AM, Rickswordfish said:

done days of research on the shroud of turin and have discovered mainly 3 things

 

1. The carbon date has been questioned

 

2. The image on it defies scientific explanation

 

3. The blood on it is from someone who endured polytrauma 

The carbon date has been questioned by believers who don't want their fantasy ruined, no unbiased source has any problems with the dating done. 

 

The image on the shroud has been replicated several times. Researchers found that painting a body with an acidic ink compound and wrapping it, let it dry then wash, would give a similar image. We don't know the exact compound used or additional treatments applied, and can't age a test shroud 500 years, but there are certainly valid hypothesis for the image creation. 

 

The blood showing "polytrauma" comes from a biased paper that was retracted as flawed. The piece of cloth dealt with was 1mm long and the techniques used questionable. They looked at single particles of iron and protein and said bonding only occurs under stress, but a single particle can't tell you what trauma the victim suffered and the same bonding would occur in butchered animal blood. A carved up cow certainly suffered "polytrauma". 

 

There are several obvious things that point to it not being really used as Jesus's burial shroud. For one, once your heart stops you don't bleed. The body would be cleaned then wrapped, so there should be no blood stains at all. Second we have documented history back to 1350 but nothing prior, and that exactly matches the carbon dating results. Thirdly the bible doesn't mention this miracle. You would have thought a relic showing a ghostly image as the sole reminder of an event, something deemed important enough to be protected and worshipped for thousands of years, would have got a mention. 

The image itself, when made into a real face, gives an appearance of a European, not the middle Eastern look we would expect. 

And lastly the blood on the hand would have had the nail driven through the palm or wrist, neither of which were used by the Romans who knew only the forearm had the strength to hold up someones body weight. A nail through the hand would tear out. 

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1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said:

Isnt the ancient city of tyre buried underneath the current one

 

Parts of the ancient city are no doubt l under the modern city. Just like Rome and Jerusalem and literally every other ancient city that’s still inhabited. What’s your background Rick? It took me a while to give this stuff up too but honestly there is no good reason at all to believe this is Devine prophecy. There’s no evidence the book was even written before the events occurred and there’s actually allot of evidence that suggests otherwise. 

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1 minute ago, Rickswordfish said:

Im afraid of going to hell

Thats exactly why people invented hell. It’s all psychological bullying. There is not one mention of Hell for nonbelievers in the Old Testament. Even in the New Testament it’s not at all clear what heaven and hell actually are. The book of Ecclesiastes even says no one knows what happens when we die. (3:20-21) 

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1 hour ago, Rickswordfish said:

Im afraid of going to hell

 

Why aren't you afraid of going to Jahannam or the Underworld, Hades etc? 

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3 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

From the article Taking these events into consideration, it is obvious that many nations continued to come against the island city, that it was destroyed on numerous occasions, and that it became a place for fishing, fulfilling Ezekiel’s prediction about the spreading of nets. Furthermore, it is evident that the multiple periods of destruction and rebuilding of the city have long since buried the Phoenician city that came under the condemnation of Ezekiel. The Columbia Encyclopedia, under its entry for Tyre, noted: “The principal ruins of the city today are those of buildings erected by the Crusaders. There are some Greco-Roman remains, but any left by the Phoenicians lie underneath the present town” (“Tyre,” 2006, emp. added).

 

People were fishing at Tyre at it's founding. They are still fishing there.

 

Tyre had been attacked centuries before the prophesy and millennia after.

 

Any city old enough keeps being built on the ruins of itself. Rome, Jerusalem, Damascus - look through history. The fact is that the city of tyre has been attacked, destroyed, and rebuilt and had near continuous occupation for some 3 millennia. (Not sure on exact dates of the founding, but it was during Neb's time which is around 600BC so my dates could be out by a few centuries)

 

The 'prophesy' says this:

"that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living; I will make thee a terror, and thou shalt be no more: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD. "

 

So 1) Tyre has been continuously inhabited, and that Tyre would never be found.

 

2) Assume that the old city was destroyed, never rebuilt, never inhabited again. We still can search for and find the old ruins from when Alexander destroyed the city.

3) This entire prophesy is about what Neb would do. Neb never conquered the Island city, and Ezekiel admits as much a few chapters later. Apologists have to shoe horn in Alexander and say the prophesy refers to him, when it doesn't. It's simply vague clap trap that you can mould to historical events and claim its "Fulfilled"

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3 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

Im afraid of going to hell

Do you (or did you) believe god was Just, Merciful and All-loving?  If so, such a being would not punish people unjustly.  The concept of hell, that is punishment for things outside of your control, a permanent punishment for temporary crimes, does not even make sense for such a god.  There is no justice in punishing people for being born in the wrong household, or coming to doubt based on the world we see.  The very idea is a contradiction to god's nature.

 

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@Rickswordfish Watch this video from a biblical scholar. This is the best short rebuttal I've seen of the 'prophesy' and covers many things not talked about. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Do you (or did you) believe god was Just, Merciful and All-loving?  If so, such a being would not punish people unjustly.  The concept of hell, that is punishment for things outside of your control, a permanent punishment for temporary crimes, does not even make sense for such a god.  There is no justice in punishing people for being born in the wrong household, or coming to doubt based on the world we see.  The very idea is a contradiction to god's nature.

 

Just because humans view hell as unjust doesnt mean god sees it that way

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2 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

Just because humans view hell as unjust doesnt mean god sees it that way

This "god" of whom you speak is a human invention and possesses all the human traits of anger, jealousy and so forth. You can't invent a merciful just god then give him a pass for all his evil and cruel shit. I think you were born to be a Christian apologist, so maybe just go do that.

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1 hour ago, florduh said:

This "god" of whom you speak is a human invention and possesses all the human traits of anger, jealousy and so forth. You can't invent a merciful just god then give him a pass for all his evil and cruel shit. I think you were born to be a Christian apologist, so maybe just go do that.

Why are you being mean to me?

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Would you rather be a Christian, Rick? 

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38 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

Why are you being mean to me?

Because to all intents and purposes you want to believe that shit.  You are reading sources that show incredible bias. Go out there and read scholars who are less biased. You're still stuck in the Christian mentality "who are we to question god". You gotta blow that thinking right out of the water if you want to have a chance with escaping Christianity. Question everything. Including the existence of god and his so called "good" qualities. But I will tell you one thing: you will only succeed with throwing the trappings of Christianity away if you are able to live with some ultimately unanswerable questions and view those unanswerable questions as freedom itself. 

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@Rickswordfish Did you watch that video I posted?

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3 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

I didnt ask to be born with several mental disorders. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

I don't understand why you keep hanging on here.  You are asking for more "meanness" by continuing the discussion.  I can't decide if you truly have mental disorders, or are a clever troll. 

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11 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

Just because humans view hell as unjust doesnt mean god sees it that way

No, you can't have it both ways.  Either He punishes people for things outside of their control, for thought crimes and for where they were born, or He is just and merciful.  You cannot punish people for an infinite time for finite crimes and claim it is justice in any way. 

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1 hour ago, Wertbag said:

No, you can't have it both ways.  Either He punishes people for things outside of their control, for thought crimes and for where they were born, or He is just and merciful.  You cannot punish people for an infinite time for finite crimes and claim it is justice in any way. 

 

Kinda makes you wonder what 'heaven' would be like. Dont mess up !

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1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

Kinda makes you wonder what 'heaven' would be like. Dont mess up !

Can you imagine enjoying paradise knowing your loved ones were sent to hell? Maybe god wipes away our human empathy to make sure we are guaranteed happiness? 

And why the hell would a loving god build a torture chamber at all? 

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On 8/27/2019 at 3:30 PM, Rickswordfish said:

Im afraid of going to hell

 

I am of the opinion that if such a place as hell did exist, no one is safe.  No one.  It would not matter how fervently you believe -- a god that would create a hell is simply not to be trusted.  It could simply banish anyone, even the most devoted follower, to eternal punishment simply on a whim.

 

The reason that hell does not frighten me is that I embraced the possibility and turned it to my advantage.  In 2007 I took a vow to go there on purpose to minister to anyone imprisoned there.  It's been 12 years and I have not rescinded that vow, nor do I intend to.

 

Fear can only protect you against real things that you can actually do something about.  Fear coupled with helplessness can only lead to pain.

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4 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

I am of the opinion that if such a place as hell did exist, no one is safe.  No one.  It would not matter how fervently you believe -- a god that would create a hell is simply not to be trusted.  It could simply banish anyone, even the most devoted follower, to eternal punishment simply on a whim.

 

The reason that hell does not frighten me is that I embraced the possibility and turned it to my advantage.  In 2007 I took a vow to go there on purpose to minister to anyone imprisoned there.  It's been 12 years and I have not rescinded that vow, nor do I intend to.

 

Fear can only protect you against real things that you can actually do something about.  Fear coupled with helplessness can only lead to pain.

 

I’ve never heard anything like that before lol... but if it works for you than go for it. Do you think hell is a realistic possibility though? 

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9 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Can you imagine enjoying paradise knowing your loved ones were sent to hell? Maybe god wipes away our human empathy to make sure we are guaranteed happiness? 

And why the hell would a loving god build a torture chamber at all? 

 

Christians get upset because their children deconvert...not because they think bible god is evil by the possibility of sending their adult child to hell, but because their child isn't kissing God's butt to avoid hell. 

 

How could you love something that ordered your child to burn forever? That is really a major mind twist. 

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