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Rickswordfish

This article scares me

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@Rickswordfish, I'm sorry to hear about your continued struggles, and I understand that these issues are rendered more challenging to you by your mental state. Still, a number of people here have posted resources which are intended to help you through this, and you seem inclined to reject them outright.  Why is this?

 

Clearly the way you are currently thinking is bothering you. Otherwise,  you wouldn't be posting about these things here. Why not try to accept the help that is being offered? I really don't think it comes from a place of ill-intentions.

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9 hours ago, Christopherhays said:

 

I’ve never heard anything like that before lol... but if it works for you than go for it. Do you think hell is a realistic possibility though? 

 

No. The concept of hell is directly related to a God or gods judging and punishing humans. Since no one has even demonstrated that a God is possible then it's not realistic that hell is possible, let alone probable.

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33 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No. The concept of hell is directly related to a God or gods judging and punishing humans. Since no one has even demonstrated that a God is possible then it's not realistic that hell is possible, let alone probable.

 

I totally agree... I was just wondering if Astreja thought it was a possibility. After reading his intro I got the impression he was a polytheistic, Buddhist, atheist who believed in Odin and a Christian hell... so I was curious how that all worked lol. This thread probably isn’t the place to discuss it though.

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11 hours ago, Christopherhays said:

 

I’ve never heard anything like that before lol... but if it works for you than go for it. Do you think hell is a realistic possibility though? 

 

No, I don't think that hell is even remotely probable.  Neurology indicates that our awareness is dependent on brainwaves of specific frequencies (generally alpha and beta range, starting to fade into drowsiness when you get to theta waves in the 4-7 Hz range, and anything slower than that is associated with unconsciousness.  I see no way for people to be conscious after death.

 

And to briefly address the questions you raised in another post, I was indeed an agnostic polytheist with a special interest in Norse culture.  About a year after writing the Ex-timony I linked to, I asked myself this question:  "Would I testify in a court of law that Oðinn was real?"  The answer was a firm, unequivocal "No, I would not."  At that moment I became -- and still remain -- an agnostic atheist.

 

I also spent about 15 years exploring various types of Buddhism, but in the end I mostly discarded that because the supernatural elements just didn't resonate with me.  I do practise mindfulness meditation, which really doesn't belong to any particular creed or worldview and has no innate mystical elements.

 

My current label for myself would be something like "Agnostic atheist humanist Stoic who meditates now and then and enjoys celebrating Old Norse festivals."

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23 minutes ago, Astreja said:

 

No, I don't think that hell is even remotely probable.  Neurology indicates that our awareness is dependent on brainwaves of specific frequencies (generally alpha and beta range, starting to fade into drowsiness when you get to theta waves in the 4-7 Hz range, and anything slower than that is associated with unconsciousness.  I see no way for people to be conscious after death.

 

And to briefly address the questions you raised in another post, I was indeed an agnostic polytheist with a special interest in Norse culture.  About a year after writing the Ex-timony I linked to, I asked myself this question:  "Would I testify in a court of law that Oðinn was real?"  The answer was a firm, unequivocal "No, I would not."  At that moment I became -- and still remain -- an agnostic atheist.

 

I also spent about 15 years exploring various types of Buddhism, but in the end I mostly discarded that because the supernatural elements just didn't resonate with me.  I do practise mindfulness meditation, which really doesn't belong to any particular creed or worldview and has no innate mystical elements.

 

My current label for myself would be something like "Agnostic atheist humanist Stoic who meditates now and then and enjoys celebrating Old Norse festivals."

 

Interesting... thanks for the reply! I too practice some forms of meditation and even fasting and find them beneficial. I don’t think we’re not all that different actually, just a bit of a different journey to the same destination. Cheers 😁

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22 hours ago, Rickswordfish said:

I have listened and it has helped however im still struggling

Listening isn't enough. Go out there and read some credible sources. Read and keep on reading. When I deconverted I suspended my own judgement and beliefs and preconceptions for months and decided I would just read several authors and a lot of books and absorb the information. After I did that, Christianity and fear of hell didn't stand a chance. In particular they don't stand a chance when you're able to peice together how the concept of hell evolved. And that was simply to control people and the flow of resources towards the church. 

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1 hour ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Listening isn't enough. Go out there and read some credible sources. Read and keep on reading. When I deconverted I suspended my own judgement and beliefs and preconceptions for months and decided I would just read several authors and a lot of books and absorb the information. After I did that, Christianity and fear of hell didn't stand a chance. In particular they don't stand a chance when you're able to peice together how the concept of hell evolved. And that was simply to control people and the flow of resources towards the church. 

Same here.

 

The doubts about xtianity, and all religions, went away directly after finishing one book each from Ehrman, Carrier, Hawkins. And with it went any fear of Hell. That hell thing is merely a control mechanism to keep you in the fold and sending pastor ass-hat a check each month. Xianity does not need a department full of folks to send people snakes in the mail - they have hell!

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:56 PM, Rickswordfish said:

I have bipolar and aspergers

First. If you did not do so already, maybe you should read/ buy books by Besser van der Kolk, psychiatrist/ therapist working with trauma with full knowledge on the dsm and its history. Then books by Peter Levine, Franz Ruppert and therapists that work with their methods. Also people with experience and training in Craniosacral therapy, acupuncture and herbs, meditation, etc ( however disputed this might be by some members of this site) in mental disorder. Then books by Steve Hassan, Janja Lalich and others about cults and what phobia indoctrination and prophecy implantation is. Or interviews by them. They are ex members and trained therapists with decades of experience. There are many types of therapy and therapists out there, don't rely strictly on the words of one psychiatrist , especially one too dedicate dto their own Bible, the DSM. I think/ feel that knowing and researching these psychological aspects can be more beneficial for you than intellectual theology per say.

      About the fear of Hell. Bart Ehrman, renowned scholar,  recommended here, said took even HIM years to get over it. Some get over it, or so it seems, very fast.  But every serious cult has this idea, leave us and you'll end up vey bad. Please read up on that, those materials really helped me a lot in understanding.

        Second, on certainty. There is no such thing as absolute certainty in history, especially ancient history. Again , Ehrman will agree. Well, of course there are some pretty sure things, like Rome did exist.  But many others not so much.

     Third. On interpreting Scripture.  Fun fact, there are literally thousands of books interpreting Scripture. I have actually read a muslim interpretation that it prophesized the coming of Muhammed. 

      Fourth and final. Maybe something about universalism might help ease your anxiety. Search Illaria Ramelli and David Bentley Hart. Modern scholars, one Eastern Orthodox,  one catholic , I think, one trained in history and greek/ latin the other in theology/philosophy. So quite mainstream well documented scholars which the logical/ historical reasons, using the Bible and early church history. Add to them if you like Robin Parry. This the only, I think, that makes any kind of sense, however problematic, in Christianity. Short PS. Read Sam Harris, Susan Blackmore and Derk Perenboom on Free Will if the time permits. This enlightened me on the problem of moral responsability and its adequate form.

      If you are serious and real about what you said,  then I hope my advice can help. Take care. It is possible that the type of help you need cannot be found here, at least not totally, but in the hands of a cult/ religious trauma informed mental health practitioner.

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Yes, of course, take these suggestions as any friendly advice, with caution. I do not offer guarantees. And even those books, don t take them all at face value, take the time to really analyze them and see what YOU think and what you do. What fits, doesn't , that sort of thing. I cannot do this for you.

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9 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

First. If you did not do so already, maybe you should read/ buy books by Besser van der Kolk, psychiatrist/ therapist working with trauma with full knowledge on the dsm and its history. Then books by Peter Levine, Franz Ruppert and therapists that work with their methods. Also people with experience and training in Craniosacral therapy, acupuncture and herbs, meditation, etc ( however disputed this might be by some members of this site) in mental disorder. Then books by Steve Hassan, Janja Lalich and others about cults and what phobia indoctrination and prophecy implantation is. Or interviews by them. They are ex members and trained therapists with decades of experience. There are many types of therapy and therapists out there, don't rely strictly on the words of one psychiatrist , especially one too dedicate dto their own Bible, the DSM. I think/ feel that knowing and researching these psychological aspects can be more beneficial for you than intellectual theology per say.

      About the fear of Hell. Bart Ehrman, renowned scholar,  recommended here, said took even HIM years to get over it. Some get over it, or so it seems, very fast.  

This point needs to be taken seriously. Indoctrination can take some people many years to get over particularly the fear of hell. I many times wonder why it was so easy for me and I've concluded it's largely due to the fact I have an education in historical methods, and once I realized the Bible is no more or less than any other primary source document out there, I felt a total complete fool and the rest of the process was very easy, particularly with the help of Bart Ehrmans's books. 

9 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

      If you are serious and real about what you said,  then I hope my advice can help. Take care. It is possible that the type of help you need cannot be found here, at least not totally, but in the hands of a cult/ religious trauma informed mental health practitioner.

I agree with this. They can be difficult to find, people with this specific training, but it would be helpful in this case. There's also online resources such as https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/#rfr-welcome

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10 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

There's also online resources such as https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/#rfr-welcome

 

👍 excelent resource. 

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The article makes the argument that the ancient city of tyre has been swallowed up by the sea and that the current city of tyre is a new city, how do we know this assumption is wrong?

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Today I read that Nebuchadnezzar did destroy tyre and afterwards the people made a new tyre away from the old one, is this true?

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Read it again. You did read it, right? https://etb-biblical-errancy.blogspot.com/2012/04/ezekiels-prophecy-of-tyre-failed.html

 

This Tyre business is settled for everyone but the believing sheep, professional apologists and you. Just for fun, why not fixate on another prophecy for awhile?

 

Disclaimer: This website does not provide treatment for mental disorders. There are no qualified people here to address such disorders, even when they happen to coincidentally manifest around religious topics. Always consult a medical professional for proper treatment.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

Please just answer my questions

 

Did you watch the video I posted?

 

No you did not. I know you didn't because the presenter clearly stats that Neb never destroyed Tyre. He destroyed the mainland city of Ushu WHICH WAS NOT TYRE. It's doesn't matter how many Christians say that Ushu was Tyre, Ushu was not Tyre. The prophesy refers to Tyre in the sea - in other words the Island city of Tyre. Neb never destroyed it, and Ezekiel says as much a few chapters later.

 

Rick, we've posted recourses showing why and how the prophesy was not fulfilled despite apologists claims. But if you keep running off to apologists to find counter arguments then ask us to repeat what we've already said I don't know what we can do.

 

Watch the video. Watch it twice. It covers everything you need to know.

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I watched half of it, what I remember is the guy saying that the "they" in the prophecy  refered to Nebuchadnezzars army not the "many nations"

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18 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

Ill ask again, how do we know that the current city of tyre is the same as the ancient city of tyre

 

Study hard, read real historians and avoid the lying and cheating Christian apologetic websites.

 

Easy as can be.

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56 minutes ago, Rickswordfish said:

I watched half of it, what I remember is the guy saying that the "they" in the prophecy  refered to Nebuchadnezzars army not the "many nations"

 

No, the many nations refers to Neb's army, NOT Alexander the Great. Christian apologists confuse the switching of pronouns and then shoehorn it into what they know of later history. It's called painting a bullseye around an arrow then claiming you hit the target.

 

Re the city - it's obviously not exactly the "same" city because time has gone on hasn't it? You are not your seven year old self ok... you are now older, your cells have died and been replaced, but you are still existing under your name as Richswordfish (Or your RL name) Same with the city. What you need to ask, is if the prophesy sates that the city would never be found and people would never live there again why the fuck we've found the ancient city, and why people have continued to build and live there?

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1 hour ago, florduh said:

why not fixate on another prophecy for awhile

Yes.  This one is growing Tyre-some.  😆

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34 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Yes.  This one is growing Tyre-some.  😆

Dad jokes? Really? :P🤣

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1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Dad jokes? Really? :P🤣

He's a dad, and a good one. If only he had a sense of humor.

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