So where are you going instead heaven?

[Jane]

Since you are not a Christian and no longer believe in heaven or hell, what do you think will happen to you after your death?  Are you afraid of it?  Did you used to believe you would go to heaven? Or hell?

 

Just curious.  I am thinking there will be just nothing, like before you existed.  But I have to admit I am afraid of the process of getting there.  Probably everyone is?  I also feel guilty if I died now, and left my family behind. I hope they would cope.  One more question, what would you say to God (s) ( any) if you died and stood in front of him/her/it/them and it turned out you were wrong about not believing there is one? 

 

[disillusioned]

I don't know what will happen when I die,  but I expect it's nothing. As you said,  much like before I was born. I'm not at all afraid of death. Dying might suck, but such is life. 

 

As to what I would say to God,  I'm honestly not sure. Probably something along the lines of "well played".

[LogicalFallacy]

Interesting topic considering our discussion on Nothing in another thread. I don't know but I believe there will be nothing absolute nothing as far as my previous consciousness is aware. I will cease to exist thus all concepts of existance will cease.

 

I'm not afraid of death itself. The potential process sure but not the final thing.

 

Me to God: So I called you... Many times over the years. Why didn't you answer?

[TABA]

5 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Me to God: So I called you... Many times over the years. Why didn't you answer?

 

God to You:  Why didn’t you ever make the Haj to Mecca like I commanded?  Oh, you didn’t read THAT book?  Too bad!  

[LogicalFallacy]

32 minutes ago, TABA said:

 

God to You:  Why didn’t you ever make the Haj to Mecca like I commanded?  Oh, you didn’t read THAT book?  Too bad!  

 

Me back to God: like I said I called. You could have at least replied with Read the Quran!

[midniterider]

2 hours ago, Jane said:

Since you are not a Christian and no longer believe in heaven or hell, what do you think will happen to you after your death?  Are you afraid of it?  Did you used to believe you would go to heaven? Or hell?

 

Just curious.  I am thinking there will be just nothing, like before you existed.  But I have to admit I am afraid of the process of getting there.  Probably everyone is?  I also feel guilty if I died now, and left my family behind. I hope they would cope.  One more question, what would you say to God (s) ( any) if you died and stood in front of him/her/it/them and it turned out you were wrong about not believing there is one? 

 

 

I'd prefer to go to the Summerlands and meet up with Celtic gods and goddesses...mostly the goddesses of course.  I also wouldnt mind becoming a formless consciousness like sat, chit, ananda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satcitananda

 

I would like to start programming myself for the Summerlands so when those final days arrive I dont start chasing after Jesus like my parents did. Even if it's all bullshit, I want to have a pleasing last few moments of joy  with my sweet Celtic Goddesses. 

 

I dont believe Christian in heaven or hell. Hell sounds ridiculous and heaven sounds rather boring.

 

I'm good with eternal nothingness, but it doesnt sound likely to me. 

 

Nature abhors a vacuum:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6mxhCnmmOU 

 

[older]

I've quoted Mark Twain on this board before: “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

 

I'm figuring it will be just like it was when I was knocked out in a roll-over accident: nothing. And yes, I do worry about the process of getting there. I'd like to go out in a headline grabbing way, but I'll probably just decline in a slow, painful way. What would I say? "Why are you such a jerk? Why do you let kids die slow painful deaths from cancer and other diseases? Why do you let some of them starve to death? Why do you create some of them with horrific defects? You have the power to stop that and you don't. Fuck you, asshole."

[disillusioned]

7 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Interesting topic considering our discussion on Nothing in another thread. I don't know but I believe there will be nothing absolute nothing as far as my previous consciousness is aware. I will cease to exist thus all concepts of existance will cease.

 

This is interesting. When I said here that I expect there will be nothing after my death,  what I meant was that the will be nothing for me, not that there will be nothing in general. More on this in the other thread.

[LogicalFallacy]

21 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

 

This is interesting. When I said here that I expect there will be nothing after my death,  what I meant was that the will be nothing for me, not that there will be nothing in general. More on this in the other thread.

 

Yes, that is what I am meaning. I just found the concept interesting thinking about it in relation to the self.

[Joshpantera]

11 hours ago, Jane said:

One more question, what would you say to God (s) ( any) if you died and stood in front of him/her/it/them and it turned out you were wrong about not believing there is one? 

 

One simple answer is taking the direction of reasoning that if god is anything, then god must be everything. I don't know if you're familiar with that.  The idea that an infinite and eternal god is an all presence. Being an all presence (present in all space, all matter, and all soul and spirit if we assume such things exist) the god is necessarily present within and without everything that could be said to exist. Being omnipresent = being the whole of existence, "All" basically. 

 

So what then could I say if I stood face to face with an omnipresent god seeing straight way, with no blinders on, that the two of us are not actually two in reality, but one? I would be facing the core essence of my own life and being and the life and being of everyone and everything in existence.

 

Would it matter one way or the other whether I believed in the core of my own existence or not previously? 

 

Would I send myself to eternal anguish for not believing in myself? 

 

The question becomes nonsensical and something not worth dwelling on if you follow it all the way through. All of the hell, fire and damnation in christianity is founded on a contradictory claim that god is both omnipresent and yet completely other than yourself. A social and political creation oriented towards scaring people into submission. But it's a contradiction. A god sending people off to punishment or reward doesn't make any sense if the god is omnipresent.

 

Thinking these things through can change the way that you see the "what if" questions about god, afterlife, etc., etc.....

[florduh]

Any answer (guess) hinges on whether consciousness is non-local. There are some indications that this is the case, but it's certainly not conclusive. Hard science indicates that what we call consciousness is a product of brain activity, but could a brain be a mechanism for focusing/directing a consciousness that exists independently? Hard to prove with the nuts and bolts of science, there is only experience and anecdotes to support that notion, though I can't rule it out.

 

If that's the case then I suspect that we already live in eternity, in Nirvana, in the vastness of space and our perspective determines how we view our situation.

[TEG]

After I was “born again” and lost all my beliefs, the idea that I was not going to heaven, as I had firmly believed all my life, hit me harder than I would have expected.  I was seriously bummed out about it for awhile, that and the resentment of having wasted my whole life up to that point on lies; I was left with no idea what the point to life was.  I (try to) have more of a stoic attitude toward it now; the stoics say that all that exists is the present moment; so when you die, all you lose is a moment.

 

The flip side:  if a person truly believes in heaven, why would he/she make any attempt to prolong this life by artificial means?  He/she should be eager to die, like a person finally getting off a hot, crowded bus to enter a huge luxury hotel.  But christians go to extreme lengths to prolong their earthly lives despite suffering and disability.  Is it possible that they may not really believe what they are saying?

 

“No one is so ignorant as not to know that we must at some time die; nevertheless, when one draws near death, one turns to flight, trembles, and laments.  Would you not think him an utter fool who wept because he was not alive a thousand years ago?  And is he not just as much of a fool who weeps because he will not be alive a thousand years from now?  It is all the same; you will not be, and you were not.  Neither of these periods of time belongs to you.”

“Men do not care how nobly they live, but only how long, although it is within the reach of every man to live nobly, but within no man’s power to live long.”

—Seneca, to Lucilius

 

Also, if I had to pick one scripture to be true, it would be the bhagavad gita.  Krishna is the god I would like to stand in front of.

[midniterider]

5 minutes ago, TEG said:

The flip side:  if a person truly believes in heaven, why would he/she make any attempt to prolong this life by artificial means?  He/she should be eager to die, like a person finally getting off a hot, crowded bus to enter a huge luxury hotel.  But christians go to extreme lengths to prolong their earthly lives despite suffering and disability.  Is it possible that they may not really believe what they are saying?

 

 

I tried having the "You should be looking forward to the end of the world" conversation with a Christian. He pretty much acted like any non-believer would. He thought I was nuts. lol

[TEG]

On an unrelated note, I cannot find how to react to a post.

[pkbutrfli]

The concept of heaven as I was taught was never appealing. It’s a place where some humanoid god is worshiped for eternity by drooling mindless masses - a humanoid god who doesn’t deserve to be worshipped even by those sorry masses. 

 

Hell included wonderful people like Mother Teresa, Nelson Mandela and Einstein. I’d much rather be in their company. 

 

If I get the opportunity to meet that humanoid god face to face I’d probably punch him. 

 

After the moment of death is a mystery. I like mysteries. Life would be terribly boring without them. 

[Wertbag]

I'm scared of death because I love life and don't want it to end. I'm also scared of missing out on seeing my kids grow up. I don't think there is anything after I go, which is sad but something which I have no control over... Unless my dream of having my brain implanted into a robot comes true. 

 

Meeting god: "Dude, grab a beer and pull up a chair, this is gonna take awhile..." 

[Jane]

16 hours ago, older said:

"Why are you such a jerk? Why do you let kids die slow painful deaths from cancer and other diseases? Why do you let some of them starve to death? Why do you create some of them with horrific defects? You have the power to stop that and you don't. Fuck you, asshole."

 

 

THAT!! Would be what I would most likely say....or at least that's what I am thinking now.  In reality I would probably have a heart attack if I wasn't already dead 

 

I would add "why let innocent animals suffer and die, and why did you create psychopath that go around killing people and what did Job's family ever do to you , and and and...my list would be very long 

 

interesting answers here

 

 

 

[Jane]

4 hours ago, TEG said:

 

 

The flip side:  if a person truly believes in heaven, why would he/she make any attempt to prolong this life by artificial means?  He/she should be eager to die, like a person finally getting off a hot, crowded bus to enter a huge luxury hotel.  But christians go to extreme lengths to prolong their earthly lives despite suffering and disability.  Is it possible that they may not really believe what they are saying?

 

Also, if I had to pick one scripture to be true, it would be the bhagavad gita.  Krishna is the god I would like to stand in front of.

 

 

I always wondered about that myself, why DO Christians want to hang on to live so much?  They are usually the ones that refuse to pull the plug on some relative that has turned into a vegetable in a coma. I could never understand why anyone would do that.  I personally refuse to hang on to life at all cost.  I don't really want to get really old and decrepit.  I don't want to end up like my mother or grandmother

 

And yes, if I had to pick a god to stand in front of, I would also pick a Hindu god, probably Ganesha , the elephant one   

[Jane]

I always wondered what exactly we were going to do in heaven, and asked pastors and other Christians about details.  I never got any, or I got contradictory stuff. Some think we keep our old bodies ( hey, if I am in heaven, and everything is perfect, I want perfect teeth and look like a super model!!) , some think we are going to have perfect bodies, but nobody is clear about it when I asked if there was going to be wastewater treatments plants in heaven and if I was going to have to work there and build them for all those billions dead Christians...there is talk in the bible about banquets, implying food, if we eat, we will have to use the potty, and where is all that sewage going to be treated?  When I asked those kinds of questions I got dirty looks at best or the typical "its a mystery" answer, or " this is not something to worry about"  . What about sex, are we still having sex in heaven?" Only with our spouses?  Will all my dogs be there?  

Then, where exactly is heaven located?  It's not up in the atmosphere somewhere, so a different dimension?  

 

The whole heaven concept was never specific enough for me, or rational enough. It bothered me even while I was a Christian

 

[midniterider]

41 minutes ago, Jane said:

I always wondered what exactly we were going to do in heaven, and asked pastors and other Christians about details.  I never got any, or I got contradictory stuff. Some think we keep our old bodies ( hey, if I am in heaven, and everything is perfect, I want perfect teeth and look like a super model!!) , some think we are going to have perfect bodies, but nobody is clear about it when I asked if there was going to be wastewater treatments plants in heaven and if I was going to have to work there and build them for all those billions dead Christians...there is talk in the bible about banquets, implying food, if we eat, we will have to use the potty, and where is all that sewage going to be treated?  When I asked those kinds of questions I got dirty looks at best or the typical "its a mystery" answer, or " this is not something to worry about"  . What about sex, are we still having sex in heaven?" Only with our spouses?  Will all my dogs be there?  

Then, where exactly is heaven located?  It's not up in the atmosphere somewhere, so a different dimension?  

 

The whole heaven concept was never specific enough for me, or rational enough. It bothered me even while I was a Christian

 

 

I may have to ask my Christian friend who invited me to dinner about the wastewater treatment plants in heaven.  

 

My question was if a murderer somehow goes to heaven and the victim and family are also there is there going to be a big friggin brawl or what? Will there be democrats protesting republicans? Will KKK members get their asses kicked by black people? 

 

Marriage is only till death do you part I think, so heaven could be a swingers paradise. Woot!

[DanForsman]

7 hours ago, florduh said:

Any answer (guess) hinges on whether consciousness is non-local. There are some indications that this is the case, but it's certainly not conclusive. Hard science indicates that what we call consciousness is a product of brain activity, but could a brain be a mechanism for focusing/directing a consciousness that exists independently? Hard to prove with the nuts and bolts of science, there is only experience and anecdotes to support that notion, though I can't rule it out.

 

If that's the case then I suspect that we already live in eternity, in Nirvana, in the vastness of space and our perspective determines how we view our situation.

Eternity has no use for us here and now if our eternal self isn't anywhere to be found in our earthly memory. Is our existence here then some kind of trick and are we sent off to different lives over and over each time disconnected from our eternal self? Maybe when this life is over our eternal selves can have a good laugh with other eternal beings over our blind man's bluff (or is it hide and go seek) game here on earth. Why do they keep adding more eternals to our little earth, 7 billion and rising? Super crazy game being played on this planet with everyone's eternal self being out of range with zero bars. Do we now have kind of a split personality or is the eternal part shut down or just sleeping or carrying on in the eternal existence?

[older]

7 hours ago, TEG said:

if a person truly believes in heaven, why would he/she make any attempt to prolong this life by artificial means?  He/she should be eager to die, like a person finally getting off a hot, crowded bus to enter a huge luxury hotel. 

 

We have a fundy friend who has said she can hardly wait until she gets to heaven and meets Jesus.  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

What is after death?  I have absolutely no idea.

 

I heard someone say heaven will be what ever you want it to be. Hmmmm.  I'm not going to tell you what that would be for me.  If god is listening, he wouldn't let me go!

[older]

Jumping back to the title of this post, my honest answer to where I'd like to go instead of heaven is Ye Olde Beverlie pub at St. Stephen's Green in Canterbury, England. We ate there four nights in a row and every meal was outstanding. And there was a beautiful lager on tap, the name of which I've forgotten, that was the smoothest beer I've ever had. An eternity there would be fine with me.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Heaven... maybe a great nightclub where I have an outstanding band backing me, and an audience that eats it up. Beautiful talented singers with me. Yeah! 

Then again, an azure sea, white sand, tropical breezes. A forest with river, mountain peaks covered in snow. Rolling green hills, a lake, a little village. 

I wonder if we keep coming back. Some religions are sure of it. Some kids seem to recall other lives clearly, and then they fade as they grow older. 

I keep wishing I could blip back to age 6 with my current knowledge. What a different life I'd live! Some others would live that didn't, others wouldn't be born that were this time. Fun to contemplate.

I did have an interesting experience once when I purposefully got high enough on weed to go unconscious. When my mind started waking, I was relating my childhood to "them" and a lesson I'd learned about being bullied. Then I realized what was happening and I clammed up.