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Free will: yes or no?

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Thanks for the discussion @Myrkhoos. No need to worry about offending me by disagreeing. I appreciate the perspective :) .

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When does free will begin ?

 

If i have a urge to go naked in the streets, i do not because i do not think is right an because is not socialy accepted in my country.

 

But it can be tolerated in a jungle type of tribe.

Or if i had a mental illness i would go naked in the streets.

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On 8/31/2019 at 10:21 AM, pantheory said:

In science, quantum mechanics asserts that the quantum world has a lot of real randomness within it. This of course could play out as free will at the larger scales of molecular matter and humans.[/quote]

 

No it could not. The main argument against the quantum mind proposition is that quantum states in the brain would decohere before they reached a spatial or temporal scale at which they could be useful for neural processing. This argument was elaborated by the physicist, Max Tegmark. Based on his calculations, Tegmark concluded that quantum systems in the brain decohere quickly and cannot control brain function.

Source: Wikipedia

 

Moreover, even if quantum events did impact the mind, because they're completely random their effect would be utterly random. Any free will would be blabbering free will.

 

 

 

 

On 8/31/2019 at 10:21 AM, pantheory said:

"Free Will, defined: "the power or capacity to choose among alternatives or to act in certain situations independently of natural, social, or divine restraints."

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/free-will

[/quote]

Personally, I favor the old definition, "the ability to have done differently. "

 

 

 

On 8/31/2019 at 10:21 AM, pantheory said:

I think free will is simply a perspective concerning decision making. IMO all should lead their lives, which nearly all do anyway, as if free will existed. Philosophy, after all, does not explain reality, it is simply a perspective of it. And there are countless possible, yet valid perspectives of reality IMO. [/quote]

Living the illusion is pretty much a forgone outcome among determinists.  At least those I know of. We can't help it. :smile:

 

 

 

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Urban Legend,

 

Welcome to this forum.

 

Thanks for the info. Much of what you stated l didn't know concerning present beliefs in Quantum Mechanics concerning free will.  I believe most of what quantum mechanics asserts verbally is BS anyway.

 

QM is a Engineering development, not a science development IMO. An Engineer asks, does it the system work or not? forget theory. A scientist asks: theoretically is it based upon the scientific method or not?

 

The answer to the former question "Does it work?:" The QM system is based upon statistics. It only can predict the likelihood of events in most cases, not how the system really works IMO.  But to that extent it works. Is it based upon science? Some of QM has a scientific basis, but most of it is based upon statistics and other physics, most of which cannot be tested as to causes of events, based upon the scientific method IMO, and if not, it's not science. As Einstein stated with humor, God does not play dice. 

 

The scientific method:

 

"The scientific method is an empirical method of acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century. It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation."

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01rymvFjH0qCudJCYWY3A5SZ1I6Ww%3A1594661000676&source=hp&ei=iJgMX_eNJ9HH-gT8jbKoAg&q=the+scientific+method&oq=the+scientific+&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgUIABCxAzICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADoECCMQJzoICAAQsQMQgwFQrAlYmiVg4jxoAHAAeACAAZ8BiAGPC5IBBDEyLjOYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab

 

I tend to agree with those including yourself, who believe that free will is only an illusion,  but maybe the most valuable illusion we have.

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On 7/13/2020 at 8:29 PM, pantheory said:

 

 

I tend to agree with those including yourself, who believe that free will is only an illusion,  but maybe the most valuable illusion we have.

I do not understand that. Really. Its value for me is minus. It is damaging.

 

For me, liberating myself from the illusion of free wil brings only peace and happiness and compassion. I think it is actually a bad thing, it brings forth fear, guilt, shame, some perfectionism, blaming other people, etc. But, really, I conscious that such thing is MY OWN experience with it. Maybe some people with, at least temporarily fall into great depression about it if they thought free will is an illusion at the deep level. 

 

Only speculating here, but maybe coming from an Eastern European country helps. The US and the anglosaxon world is kind of built upon the idea of freedom, free choice, doing what you want, the free invidual, the self made man. It is the main myth, yes myth, of the Anglosaxon world. People give up God easier than the belief in free will. :)) Freedom was never quite that big thing in my education. Happiness, finding your place, etc, was far more put forth as a thing to want. 

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