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UniversalFriendliness

seeking true religion

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That was the Catholic church.  Myths.  And many things have been attributed to God and Jesus through the years.  I saw a man jump out a third story window because Jesus "told him" to do so.  

 

If you look at the overall picture of Jewish/Christian religion, there has been change/evolution.  And much, if not most, has been due to secular/scientific/legal forces outside the church. It is a very slow process, but religions change when people begin to see them, or parts of them, as invalid.

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11 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

That was the Catholic church.  Myths.  And many things have been attributed to God and Jesus through the years.  I saw a man jump out a third story window because Jesus "told him" to do so.  

 

If you look at the overall picture of Jewish/Christian religion, there has been change/evolution.  And much, if not most, has been due to secular/scientific/legal forces outside the church. It is a very slow process, but religions change when people begin to see them, or parts of them, as invalid.

This I highly disagree with, but this is turning into a full debate to which I am not prepared as much as I would want and this is not the place. For now, I wil leave it at that.

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22 hours ago, Weezer said:

I was thinking in terms of God destroying people in the flood,  and having the Israelites slaughter the Canaanites.  Then centuries later having Jesus give the  Sermon on the Mount, telling people to love each other, etc.  At least from that point on he never caused mass killing, or ordered it to be done.  To me, that is a kind of change, or evolutuon.

 

But then, it's all a bunch of convoluted myths anyway.

 

Here is a great example of how absurd the whole who-was-Jesus problem is:

 

Richard Smoley on the Identity of Jesus

 

What I think happened was that Jesus was a noteworthy teacher of the find-God-within school of thought, whose memory was used by others to make a composite mystery religion. 

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1 hour ago, Myrkhoos said:

This I highly disagree with, but this is turning into a full debate to which I am not prepared as much as I would want and this is not the place. For now, I wil leave it at that.

 

If universalfriendliness doesn't want us to continue here, he can say so. I personally think he would welcome the discussion.  I'm not going to debate you.  Simply state my opinion, and you can state yours.

 

But first I want to be sure we are on the same wave length.  I am not completely sure what is it you disagree with.  Could you explain?  

 

 

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Maybe debate was not the best word, then. I used in the sense of a prolonged somwhat contradictory discussion. But thinking about it in the last hours I realised even more I have serious gaps in my knowledge, about this topic so I will refrain now from saying anything on this subject covering church history and the broader problems of history at hand. Well this has been at least a further motivation for my already building interest in these areas. I mean I have not even read the Old testament cover to cover. In my days in the church it was not recomended to read it lightly as it might confuse the begginer. I took that to heart and mostly read the NT through the lens of the Holy Fathers approved by the Eastern Orthodox Church. For example I am realy interested in reading muslim and jewish criticisms of the NT. 

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12 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

 I mean I have not even read the Old testament cover to cover. In my days in the church it was not recomended to read it lightly as it might confuse the begginer.

 

In my opinion, reading the Old Testament would confuse anybody that was a half way rational thinker.  It gradually occurred to me how inconsistent and cruel God was.   Allowing satan to torture Job, and telling abraham to kill his own son, just to test their Faith.  And the extreme inconsistency of saying thou shall not kill, or steal, or covet thy neighbors wife in the 10 commandments.  Then a few years later telling the Israelites to slaughter the Canaanites and steal their land, and take their wives and daughters.  It was okay to kill and steal if it benefited your own tribe.  If I remember right, it was justified because the Canaanites were sinful people??

 

12 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

 I am realy interested in reading muslim and jewish criticisms of the NT. 

 

I did not do that.  It should be interesting.  Let us know what you find.

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Here is a good treatment of how religions evolve from the essential initial spiritual experience, through the lenses which are used to portray those experiences, and the theology and philosophy that develops to codify them in different cultures:

 

Jay Lakhani, Advanced Hinduism, first fifteen minutes or so.

 

People get distracted by the superficial and culturally-specific elements, and don't have enough exposure to the deeper spiritual truths that are accessible in all traditions.

 

-- and not only the theology and philosophy that is used to codify the experiences, but the rubbish and propaganda that is admixed. For example a lot of the OT is no doubt self-propagandizing by the Israelites to justify abusing their neighbors.

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18 minutes ago, UniversalFriendliness said:

 For example a lot of the OT is no doubt self-propagandizing by the Israelites to justify abusing their neighbors.

 

Also my thoughts.

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1 hour ago, UniversalFriendliness said:

Here is a good treatment of how religions evolve from the essential initial spiritual experience, through the lenses which are used to portray those experiences, and the theology and philosophy that develops to codify them in different cultures:

 

Jay Lakhani, Advanced Hinduism, first fifteen minutes or so.

 

People get distracted by the superficial and culturally-specific elements, and don't have enough exposure to the deeper spiritual truths that are accessible in all traditions.

 

-- and not only the theology and philosophy that is used to codify the experiences, but the rubbish and propaganda that is admixed. For example a lot of the OT is no doubt self-propagandizing by the Israelites to justify abusing their neighbors.

I like the way you put things in your words.

I kind of agree with this.

 

Another link that talks about this here: 

 

 

Its a pretty longish video. But this guy's ideas resonate with me.

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 12:40 AM, Karna said:

But this guy's ideas resonate with me.

 

approximate times and quotes:

 

@ 15:00 'There is an absolute truth that is accessible to humans. It is not accessible to the rational mind.'    [good!]

@ 19:10 'You are literally nothingness.' @ 20:10 'existence and nothingness are the same'   [one view only]

 

As he gets to minute 19, he goes into what seems a Buddhist interpretation. Bear in mind that the ideas that are consistent with what he says at minute 15 include more than Buddhism. For example there are also Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism. 

 

In its own way, that Jesus the teacher would approve of and was trying to teach, Christianity carries (with unfortunate baggage) the better idea, namely that God is love, existence is love. Meditation can lead to love. We can have a unitive, meditative experience that is love, not nothingness.

 

There are so many presentations about meditation, in books and on video. Some of them encourage a nothingness concept, others encourage a more unitive perspective. Through the personalities of God, known as gods, in Hinduism, it is encouraged to have a more unitive experience with God. Some perspectives, especially Hinduism and the Quakers, have the understanding that everyone carries a divine spark, and that God is in everyone. Unitive thinking and meditation flow from that.

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Delving into concepts removed from their specific framework can be confusing. These words , love, nothingness, oneness , get thrown a lot around, but one should be careful, lest they become little more than new age slogans. I mean they can refer to a lot of experiences, from drugged out to psychotic to certain deep insights.  I mean certain people say, NAMBLA , that paedophilia is love. That word is too used too loosely in plain language. 

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5 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Delving into concepts removed from their specific framework can be confusing. These words , love, nothingness, oneness , get thrown a lot around, but one should be careful, lest they become little more than new age slogans. I mean they can refer to a lot of experiences, from drugged out to psychotic to certain deep insights.  I mean certain people say, NAMBLA , that paedophilia is love. That word is too used too loosely in plain language. 

I think you are right. Only someone who has truly experienced those states (or has experience of those spiritual insights) should use those words.

The rest of us common folks, should refrain from using those words - in that context. For it is like talking about rocket science when we dont even know what an escape velocity is.

When we project our limited knowledge on such concepts, we distort them and the concepts themselves lose their significance.

 

So what should a commoner like me do? Keep seeking until I experience those states (which may happen or not happen). But until then keep living the best life possible, without hurting others and the environment, read, meditate, learn, step out of dogmas, be of service to the society, etc.

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