Christian Persecution

[midniterider]

44 minutes ago, buffettphan said:

 

Nope.  If I were easily impressed, I'd be impressed by you.

 

LoL

[OrdinaryClay]

21 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

As are christian ones. 

 

Twice now, on two different threads, I have asked you to support your claims; and you have done so in neither case.  Instead, you have simply expected that I should think as you think, with implications that the way I think is faulty.  More clever than some other christians we've had here of late, you are not as brazen with your ad hominems; but you employ them nonetheless. 

Well you are the one that does not seem to read.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48146305

 

 I must say the anti Christian boiler plate is on display for all to see through out this site. I mean really the amount original thought here is pretty slim. I'm not saying you are wrong because  you use the boiler plate. I'm simply saying it is, well, boring.

 

[OrdinaryClay]

20 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

...evidence?

I just provided a sample query for the googly handicapped.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

A single article decrying "political correctness" does not support the claim that the depth and breadth of christian persecution exceeds all other groups.  

 

You are boring, Clay.  You're just like every other christian who comes here expecting us to accept your claims without you first demonstrating the truth of your claims.

 

Until you learn to employ the slightest modicum of intelligence yourself, I recommend you cut out the ad hominems.

[OrdinaryClay]

15 hours ago, florduh said:

Define "persecution." Do you mean mass murder, censorship, exclusion from something?

 

Define "Christian." Do you mean quietly practicing churches and sects, missionaries disrupting a culture, attempts at creating a theocracy, vocal opposition to the dominant religion of the area?

 

After the definitions are in, I'd like to see some examples that can be verified. FTR I am opposed to actual persecution of any harmless group.

 

Define "harmless group".

 

Define "actual".

 

After the definitions are in I'd like to see some examples of what you have on record as persecution you are opposed to.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, OrdinaryClay said:

I just provided a sample query for the googly impared.

Which did not support the claim you made.  I share this for the logically impaired.

[florduh]

1 hour ago, OrdinaryClay said:

Define "harmless group".

 

Define "actual".

 

After the definitions are in I'd like to see some examples of what you have on record as persecution you are opposed to.

I know you think this is a clever retort, but it isn't. 

 

Baby steps then. What do YOU mean by "persecution" since you brought up the term?

[disillusioned]

2 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

I just provided a sample query for the googly handicapped.

 

Yes, I see that.

 

The report referred to in the article you posted was written by a bishop and a reverend. Seems like they might have some bias there. But leave that aside. I've already acknowledged that persecution of Christians by extremist groups is a thing. This tends to happen most often in predominently Muslim countries. But such extremist regimes also persecute many other minority groups including Jews, Women, LGBTQ individuals, members of other religions, and even the wrong kind of Muslims. The persecution they enact is targeted at people who don't agree with them, not at Christians specifically. So calling this persecution of Christians is misleading. It's bad,  and I wish it didn't happen. But it does not represent a special targeting of Christians.

[older]

On 9/7/2019 at 9:41 AM, OrdinaryClay said:

All religions proselytism. It demonstrates a lack of critical thinking to believe otherwise. If this were not true no religion would grow.

 

No, all religions do not proselytize. The most basic research will reveal those that do not. And, in fact, there are some religions that do not admit new members at all. And as far as I can determine, Christianity is the only one that actively sends missionaries out to convert non-Christians.

[freshstart]

Seems to me the refugee population is the most persecuted of all groups and they represent a wide variety of religions, ethnic groups, etc.

https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/refugees/

[midniterider]

1 hour ago, older said:

 

No, all religions do not proselytize. The most basic research will reveal those that do not. And, in fact, there are some religions that do not admit new members at all. And as far as I can determine, Christianity is the only one that actively sends missionaries out to convert non-Christians.

 

I hate when those Wiccans go door to door peddling their shit. 

[Jagdish]

On 9/7/2019 at 9:38 AM, OrdinaryClay said:

I don't know any Christians that believe this. 

"Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. If possible, so far as it depends on 
you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written,
"VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A 
DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. "
(Rom 12:17-21 NASB)

My mother was a fanatic about this religion to the point where it really f*&ed up my childhood and left me with scars till this day. She used to quote this dribble to me when the other kids would beat the crap out of me. I was scared to fight back because well "look what they did to Jesus and he never fought back". So I was the town whipping boy. One day in high school a kid hit me and I flattened his a$$. Ah no more whipping boy. Also no more being nice to cretins. 

 

Maybe if Jesus could have just remained a philosopher nothing more nothing less he would be easier to stomach and you followers would not be so abrasively intrusive  

[OrdinaryClay]

On 9/8/2019 at 3:30 PM, florduh said:

I know you think this is a clever retort, but it isn't. 

 

Baby steps then. What do YOU mean by "persecution" since you brought up the term?

Yes, yes, baby steps. I trust the English dictionary in this case.

[OrdinaryClay]

On 9/9/2019 at 10:57 AM, Jagdish said:

My mother was a fanatic about this religion to the point where it really f*&ed up my childhood and left me with scars till this day. She used to quote this dribble to me when the other kids would beat the crap out of me. I was scared to fight back because well "look what they did to Jesus and he never fought back". So I was the town whipping boy. One day in high school a kid hit me and I flattened his a$$. Ah no more whipping boy. Also no more being nice to cretins. 

 

Maybe if Jesus could have just remained a philosopher nothing more nothing less he would be easier to stomach and you followers would not be so abrasively intrusive  

So what does shiva teach?

[florduh]

52 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said:

Yes, yes, baby steps. I trust the English dictionary in this case.

 

I'm looking for YOUR definition of persecution. I know what the dictionary says, but these days "Christian Persecution" can also mean having to bake a cake for gay clients, having to marry a same sex couple, not having official Christian prayers in public schools or providing transportation or housing to gays, racially mixed couples, atheists or Muslims.

 

I'd also like to know what the persecuted Christians have been up to. Quietly practicing their religion, illegally proselytizing, attempting to overthrow a competing theocracy?

 

But you seem determined to not answer, so let the others at least be reminded of my questions.

[OrdinaryClay]

1 hour ago, florduh said:

 

I'm looking for YOUR definition of persecution. I know what the dictionary says, but these days "Christian Persecution" can also mean having to bake a cake for gay clients, having to marry a same sex couple, not having official Christian prayers in public schools or providing transportation or housing to gays, racially mixed couples, atheists or Muslims.

 

I'd also like to know what the persecuted Christians have been up to. Quietly practicing their religion, illegally proselytizing, attempting to overthrow a competing theocracy?

 

But you seem determined to not answer, so let the others at least be reminded of my questions.

I gave you my definition as can be seen by reading my post.

 

Yes, Christians are persecuted for quietly practicing their religion.

 

Christians do proselytize even where it is illegal, for example North Korea and the middle east.. Do you oppose gays being persecuted in countries were homosexuality is illegal?

 

Christians don't attempt to overthrow countries.

[florduh]

39 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said:

I gave you my definition as can be seen by reading my post.

 

Yes, Christians are persecuted for quietly practicing their religion.

 

Christians do proselytize even where it is illegal, for example North Korea and the middle east.. Do you oppose gays being persecuted in countries were homosexuality is illegal?

 

Christians don't attempt to overthrow countries.

 

Despite the propaganda you may have heard, homosexuals do not proselytize, so no comparison and nobody is trying to convert you to being gay. Christians do proselytize, it's their main thing and it runs from irritating to illegal.

 

Do Christians attempt to overthrow countries? Missionaries invading indigenous tribes do exactly that. Also look up the Dominionist movement in America.

[midniterider]

Being gay is a religious crime only and limited to backwards ass tribal cultures. Being gay harms nobody and therefore should not be a crime. Homophobic assholes didnt like it when they wrote their holy books so they made it a sin. Then later on a new group of dumbasses decided homosexuality should be illegal. 

 

Thank goodness I live in a progressive country where 200 years ago people transcended the need to be controlled by religion. But it is sad that there is still a large contingent of religious dumbasses who personally hate gays for being gay but try to justify their hate by quoting some false authority like the bible or the koran. It is sad that these people let their ancient book run their lives.

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 9/7/2019 at 3:42 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Please support the claim that "the breadth and depth of the persecution of Christians is unmatched by any other group."

Bumped for attention of @OrdinaryClay

[older]

On 9/7/2019 at 12:05 PM, OrdinaryClay said:

The breadth and depth of the persecution of Christians is unmatched by any other group.

 

So you wrote that you're not talking about historical persecution, nor are you talking about persecution in America. Thus constrained, how about the persecution of people with albinism in China, where the condition is considered bad luck. Such persons cannot get jobs or educations, and are socially ostracized. 

 

How about in Tanzania, Malawi, Kenya and the Democratic Republic of Congo? Persons with albinism are killed and their body parts are used by witch doctors to make potions that are supposed to bring prosperity to the user.  And in some cases they are killed because some people think they bring bad luck. And in some places it is thought that having sex with a person with albinism cures AIDS.

 

How about the Uyghurs, an ethnic minority in China, a million of whom have been locked up in concentration camps in northwest China, and where in 2017 alone at least half a million children were forcefully separated from their families, and placed in pre-school camps with prison-style surveillance systems and 10,000 volt electric fences.

 

Show me where Christians are killed and their body parts are used for magical potions.  Show me where they are killed because superstitious people think they are cursed and therefore bring bad luck. Show me where the idea that screwing one will cure a disease. Show me where a million Christians have been locked up because they want to grow a beard, have a prayer rug, or because one of their relatives offended the government.

 

If you are a troll, you are succeeding. Your ignorance is making me angry.

[older]

Mashi:

 

I do not deny that Christians are persecuted. What I deny is OrdinaryClay's claim that "the persecution of Christians is unmatched by any other group." I stand by my last paragraph.

 

As to North Korea, the facts depend upon your source. According to a Wikkipedia article, since the 1980s, North Korea is opening up to Christianity. Billy Graham and Franklin Graham have both visited as has the Pope. In the 1980s, North Korea produced its own translation of the Bible.¹

 

As to Saudi Arabia, while a Muslim who converts to another religion can be put to death, there have been no reports of such punishment in modern times.²

 

While China does monitor churches of all types and requires churches to be government approved, Christianity has gone from four million in 1949 to about 31 million today.³

 

In Nigeria, the Boko Haram folks are bad dudes seeking to impose Shria law, and they do go after Christians. Not to diminish their horrors, but most of it is in the north, while Christians are dominant in the south. About 40 percent of the population of Nigeria is Christian.⁴

 

_________

 

¹https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_North_Korea#Christianity

²https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Saudi_Arabia#Christian_community_today

³https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#Unregistered_churches

⁴https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Nigeria

 

[mwc]

     I would see this like a Black Lives Matters issue.  People might try to say All Lives Matter which may well also be true but it detracts from the actual issue at hand which is specifically black lives.  In that sense I would say that if xians are being persecuted then that is no good.  It doesn't matter about the other groups at this point since we're talking specifically about xians (which is not to say other groups don't matter but, as a said above it just detracts from the main point).  If a persecution amounts to taking away a human right then it clearly something that people should stand against.

 

     Having said that, I would then hope that if that were to happen that these same xians would turn around and offer that same sort of support to all others also suffering from persecution.  My gut feeling on this is that they, in general, would not.  Maybe this is why it's so easy to be apathetic?

 

          mwc

 

[Joshpantera]

20 hours ago, Masihi said:

Either way Saudi converts are still at major risks for converting to Christianity. Also there are quite a few Christians that live in the North that are frequently targeted by Boko Haram and those of their like. I’m not sure if Christians are the most persecuted group in the world, my point is that they are persecuted.

 

And what about atheists? What sort of persecution to atheist's face?

 

I suppose if you kept moving and made your way to non-belief it wouldn't be very different than going as christian. It may be worse in fact. 

[Joshpantera]

16 hours ago, Masihi said:

Possibly the same, well I think we all heard of Rahaf, so an athiest and Christian here would generally face the same thing. However it’s easier to be an atheist here then a Christian, you can easily hide atheism, you can’t really hide Christianity sometimes.

 

That's probably true. I guess you can just blend in and go with the flow whilst not actually believing any of it. But if you're vocal about non-belief, well, then I guess you'd be just as screwed. 

[older]

On 9/19/2019 at 1:35 AM, mwc said:

     I would see this like a Black Lives Matters issue.  People might try to say All Lives Matter which may well also be true but it detracts from the actual issue at hand which is specifically black lives.  In that sense I would say that if xians are being persecuted then that is no good.  It doesn't matter about the other groups at this point since we're talking specifically about xians (which is not to say other groups don't matter but, as a said above it just detracts from the main point).  If a persecution amounts to taking away a human right then it clearly something that people should stand against.

 

     Having said that, I would then hope that if that were to happen that these same xians would turn around and offer that same sort of support to all others also suffering from persecution.  My gut feeling on this is that they, in general, would not.  Maybe this is why it's so easy to be apathetic?

 

          mwc

 

 

MWC makes an interesting comment. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all could just get along?

 

I think we all agree that people should not be persecuted for their benign beliefs, but what happens when those beliefs are no longer benign?

 

Which leads to this thought: Some people in both Christianity and Islam try to push their religion onto others, sometimes covertly and sometimes overtly, some even resorting to physical force. So when someone objects to the actions of those Christians or Muslims, at what point does that objection change from being resistant to being suppressive? Here in America, many Christians interpret objection as persecution (see the cartoon I posted in the fifth entry on this thread). So who gets to define the crossover point into persecution when objections are measured and non-violent?