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OrdinaryClay

Christian Persecution

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5 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

And what about atheists? What sort of persecution to atheist's face?

 

I suppose if you kept moving and made your way to non-belief it wouldn't be very different than going as christian. It may be worse in fact. 

Possibly the same, well I think we all heard of Rahaf, so an athiest and Christian here would generally face the same thing. However it’s easier to be an atheist here then a Christian, you can easily hide atheism, you can’t really hide Christianity sometimes.

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16 hours ago, Masihi said:

Possibly the same, well I think we all heard of Rahaf, so an athiest and Christian here would generally face the same thing. However it’s easier to be an atheist here then a Christian, you can easily hide atheism, you can’t really hide Christianity sometimes.

 

That's probably true. I guess you can just blend in and go with the flow whilst not actually believing any of it. But if you're vocal about non-belief, well, then I guess you'd be just as screwed. 

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On 9/19/2019 at 1:35 AM, mwc said:

     I would see this like a Black Lives Matters issue.  People might try to say All Lives Matter which may well also be true but it detracts from the actual issue at hand which is specifically black lives.  In that sense I would say that if xians are being persecuted then that is no good.  It doesn't matter about the other groups at this point since we're talking specifically about xians (which is not to say other groups don't matter but, as a said above it just detracts from the main point).  If a persecution amounts to taking away a human right then it clearly something that people should stand against.

 

     Having said that, I would then hope that if that were to happen that these same xians would turn around and offer that same sort of support to all others also suffering from persecution.  My gut feeling on this is that they, in general, would not.  Maybe this is why it's so easy to be apathetic?

 

          mwc

 

 

MWC makes an interesting comment. Wouldn’t it be nice if we all could just get along?

 

I think we all agree that people should not be persecuted for their benign beliefs, but what happens when those beliefs are no longer benign?

 

Which leads to this thought: Some people in both Christianity and Islam try to push their religion onto others, sometimes covertly and sometimes overtly, some even resorting to physical force. So when someone objects to the actions of those Christians or Muslims, at what point does that objection change from being resistant to being suppressive? Here in America, many Christians interpret objection as persecution (see the cartoon I posted in the fifth entry on this thread). So who gets to define the crossover point into persecution when objections are measured and non-violent?
 

 

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On 9/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, disillusioned said:

 

Yes, I see that.

 

The report referred to in the article you posted was written by a bishop and a reverend. Seems like they might have some bias there.

I guess that means no one should believe anything Bertrand Russel states about atheism.

 

I honestly don't think anti Christians think before they post.

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On 9/8/2019 at 10:37 PM, older said:

 

No, all religions do not proselytize. The most basic research will reveal those that do not. And, in fact, there are some religions that do not admit new members at all. And as far as I can determine, Christianity is the only one that actively sends missionaries out to convert non-Christians.

A minuscule amount of rational thought would reveal that any religion that did not admit new members would cease to exist pronto. All regions admit new members and all proselytize in some form or another. Really, are you so mentally trapped as to be blind to such a simply deduced truth.

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On 9/9/2019 at 12:01 AM, freshstart said:

Seems to me the refugee population is the most persecuted of all groups and they represent a wide variety of religions, ethnic groups, etc.

https://www.un.org/en/sections/issues-depth/refugees/

Refugees have nothing universally in common except being human.

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On 9/9/2019 at 12:31 AM, midniterider said:

 

I hate when those Wiccans go door to door peddling their shit.  :)

wiccans arn't born wiccans. They are converted by other wiccans.

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30 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said:

Refugees have nothing universally in common except being human.

This is a strange observation coming from the same clown who claims in another thread that spirituality is "universal".

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2 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

wiccans arn't born wiccans. They are converted by other wiccans.

 

I heard of paganism and got more interested in it by reading stuff on the net. Then I bought some books on the subject. Nobody converted me. Whether it is growing or not I have no idea. Paganism isn't an organized religion like Christianity. There's only 1 person in my small group. (haha) Now, a coven of witches is 13 people which, coincidentally is the number of the apostles plus Jesus. Fun fact. 

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2 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

Refugees have nothing universally in common except being human.

 

Being human...and all being refugees, of course. 

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4 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

A minuscule amount of rational thought would reveal that any religion that did not admit new members would cease to exist pronto. All regions admit new members and all proselytize in some form or another. Really, are you so mentally trapped as to be blind to such a simply deduced truth.

 

A miniscule amount of rational thought? Really?

 

Proselytize: to convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.

 

Except when someone is attempting to marry into a family with orthodox beliefs, I've never known any Jews to try to convert someone to their beliefs. Defend their beliefs when someone else is trying to convert them?  Yes. But attempt to convert others, especially strangers? No way.

"New members" are sustained in many religions by passing beliefs down through generations. Where are all the Jewish missionaries? Where are the Menonites shouting on the street corners? Where are the Wiccan televangelists?

What's wrong with admitting that Christians are out there trying to save souls way more than any other religion?  Although. . .  it is kind of weird that an all-powerful God needs humans to do his bidding. I wonder why he can't . . .er. . .I mean he won't just to talk to people on his own.

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7 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

wiccans arn't born wiccans. They are converted by other wiccans.

 

I've never been Wiccan, but there was a time when I was quite interested in Norse heiðinn beliefs.  No one converted me.  No followers of Thor chatted me up or rang my doorbell or handed me an Edda tract at the mall.

 

It was the stories and the ideas themselves that attracted me, and in fact the only place I've encountered people who might have been followers (because they were wearing Thor's hammer or a valknut or some other Norse symbolism) was at the annual Icelandic Festival in Gimli.  I didn't ask; they didn't tell.

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11 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

I guess that means no one should believe anything Bertrand Russel states about atheism.

 

I honestly don't think anti Christians think before they post.

 

Nice job ignoring the rest of what I wrote. Literally the next sentence was "But leave that aside".

 

You are either being completely disingenuous, or you're just bad at this. 

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10 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

I heard of paganism and got more interested in it by reading stuff on the net. Then I bought some books on the subject. Nobody converted me. Whether it is growing or not I have no idea. Paganism isn't an organized religion like Christianity. There's only 1 person in my small group. (haha) Now, a coven of witches is 13 people which, coincidentally is the number of the apostles plus Jesus. Fun fact. 

The people who wrote what you read converted you.

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9 hours ago, freshstart said:

"New members" are sustained in many religions by passing beliefs down through generations.

You  don't say!!! you mean they wern't born that way? You mean the ideas of their religion didn't pop into their brain through the aether?

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9 hours ago, freshstart said:

What's wrong with admitting that Christians are out there trying to save souls way more than any other religion?  Although. . .  it is kind of weird that an all-powerful God needs humans to do his bidding. I wonder why he can't . . .er. . .I mean he won't just to talk to people on his own.

This is absolutely true. I embrace this truth.

 

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has no needs. His interaction with and commandments to humanity are for our benefit. We benefit from acting out through love.

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6 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

It was the stories and the ideas themselves that attracted me, and in fact the only place I've encountered people who might have been followers (because they were wearing Thor's hammer or a valknut or some other Norse symbolism) was at the annual Icelandic Festival in Gimli.  I didn't ask; they didn't tell.

 

The person who wrote the stories and thoughts that you explored was, in fact, proselytising.

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2 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

Nice job ignoring the rest of what I wrote. Literally the next sentence was "But leave that aside".

 

You are either being completely disingenuous, or you're just bad at this. 

Why did you write it if no one is supposed to read it. You lead with it so obviously you thought it had merit in the discussion. The rest  of your post about the fact that other groups are persecuted seemed obvious and not relevant to the OP.

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9 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said:

Why did you write it if no one is supposed to read it. You lead with it so obviously you thought it had merit in the discussion. The rest  of your post about the fact that other groups are persecuted seemed obvious and not relevant to the OP.

 

I thought it was worth mentioning, but it wasn't the point of my post. Clearly this escapes you.

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18 minutes ago, OrdinaryClay said:

You  don't say!!! you mean they wern't born that way? You mean the ideas of their religion didn't pop into their brain through the aether?

 

My, my.  Why such an emotional response? 

I guess I'll spell this out: 

Parents passing on their faith to their children are not proselytizing.  They are indoctrinating.  There is a difference. 

Christians do both.

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It's weird that a clown who throws out No True Scotsman as often as ordinaryclay does, would also be whining about christians being persecuted more than any other group.  Hey, Clay, how do you know that all those persecuted christians are even "real" christians to begin with?  I bet 95% of them are really just deceived and confused about theology and are only being "persecuted" because Satan is fucking with them just to get his jollies.  Maybe it's not even persecution; maybe jesus is punishing them for being confused and not believing right.

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46 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It's weird that a clown who throws out No True Scotsman as often as ordinaryclay does, would also be whining about christians being persecuted more than any other group.  Hey, Clay, how do you know that all those persecuted christians are even "real" christians to begin with?  I bet 95% of them are really just deceived and confused about theology and are only being "persecuted" because Satan is fucking with them just to get his jollies.  Maybe it's not even persecution; maybe jesus is punishing them for being confused and not believing right.

 

if only the persecuted "believed harder" God would surely help them. 

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2 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

The people who wrote what you read converted you.

 

You may be right. The more I read the bible the more I felt it was a crock of shit. Eventually I gave up that religion. It is safe to say then that the authors of the bible converted me back to agnosticism. Atheists say all the time that a need to dig deeper into their bible and get closer to God resulted in their conversion to atheism. :)

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11 hours ago, OrdinaryClay said:

The person who wrote the stories and thoughts that you explored was, in fact, proselytising.

 

Long-dead anonymous Scandinavians leaving books behind for people to read is vastly preferable to someone coming up to my house in person and trying to foist their particular worldview upon me, often with great rudeness and occasionally threats of afterlife harm.

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On 9/21/2019 at 4:39 PM, OrdinaryClay said:

A minuscule amount of rational thought would reveal that any religion that did not admit new members would cease to exist pronto. All regions admit new members and all proselytize in some form or another. Really, are you so mentally trapped as to be blind to such a simply deduced truth.

 

Here ya go:

 

“Buddhists do not engage in the practice of proselytisation”

“Hinduism lacks a proselytism tradition.”

“Sikhism is not a proselytizing religion and proselytism is largely discouraged”

“in the modern era Judaism generally does not proselytize non-Jews …. Generally, Jews expect any convert to Judaism to come through their own accord.“

“Sects of some religions, such as the Druze, Yazidis, and Zoroastrians, do not accept converts at all”

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism 

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