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Is it actually impossible to reason with a devout christian?

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36 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Ten-year-old sex slave...

When where...here, now, 2000 years ago?.....why don't you put you attitude aside if you really wish to visit.  Thx

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30 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

When where...here, now, 2000 years ago?.....why don't you put you attitude aside if you really wish to visit.  Thx

I'm sorry, but asking valid questions is not "attitude."

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

When where...here, now, 2000 years ago?.....why don't you put you attitude aside if you really wish to visit.  Thx

The same ten-year-old sex slave I have been discussing since Thursday.  I know it's difficult to keep track; but myself, Walter, and midniterider have all posed the same example to you.

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The answer is that God works in mysterious ways. Next....

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Edgarcito,

 

To follow up on what the RedneckProfessor has been driving at, please consider this.  Is it not your daily aim to be more and more Christ-like?  If so, then surely the things that are important to him are the things that should be important to you.  And that passage from Matthew 25 that I've quoted twice now clearly spells out that... the least of these brothers and sisters of mine... are VERY important to him.  

 

You'll notice that Jesus doesn't specifically mention ten year old girls being held in sexual slavery. 

 

So, do you think that because he doesn't speak about this specific instance, her suffering can't be very important to him?

 

And it therefore follows that it should be very important to you?

 

Well?

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1 hour ago, WalterP said:

Is it not your daily aim to be more and more Christ-like?

Christians like to be identified as Christian. It's their validation and badge of superiority. That doesn't mean they're going to actually do anything Christlike. 

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Being christ-like seems to operate a lot like a "flavor-of-the-week".  This week it's praying the "prayer of jabez", last week it was the new hillsong CD, the week before...

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9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

15 yard unsportsman like conduct...piling on. 

Well, this is the Lion's Den......though when some of us post in the Spirituality forum we're occasionally fouled as well.....

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Edgarcito,

 

Please remember that what it takes to be Christ-like wasn't set down by us recently, in this thread.  It was set down for all time, over 2,000 years ago by Jesus himself.

 

So, there's no bad faith or bad attitudes coming from us.   We are simply holding you to the standard you should be aiming for on a daily basis.

 

If our doing this makes you uncomfortable, then don't blame us.  These are the terms and conditions of the covenant you signed up to, when you became a Christian.

 

As former Christians we know exactly what these terms and conditions are and we can see when a Christian is failing to live up to them.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Edgarcito,

 

Please remember that what it takes to be Christ-like wasn't set down by us recently, in this thread.  It was set down for all time, over 2,000 years ago by Jesus himself.

 

So, there's no bad faith or bad attitudes coming from us.   We are simply holding you to the standard you should be aiming for on a daily basis.

 

If our doing this makes you uncomfortable, then don't blame us.  These are the terms and conditions of the covenant you signed up to, when you became a Christian.

 

As former Christians we know exactly what these terms and conditions are and we can see when a Christian is failing to live up to them.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Walter, I don't see the added value to a stance of it's not expected that I do anything with my life.  All of us fail, Christian or not.  People encouraging others to even start with some decent, non-self work, is a start.  I gather encouraging others that have been through religious trauma has a good place.

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On 10/11/2019 at 9:21 PM, midniterider said:

RNP's question bumped: So, is god able to prevent evil, but not willing; or is he willing but not able?

 

 

Oh for godsake Edgarcito, can't you answer the question to the best of your ability and stop dodging?

Insert ANY "evil" thing you can think of (i.e. holocaust, flesh-eating diseases, rape/torture/murder, you name it) and tell us whether you believe God is either unwilling or unable to prevent them. The answer is one or the other. It is not that complicated. Which is it?

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8 minutes ago, freshstart said:

Oh for godsake Edgarcito, can't you answer the question to the best of your ability and stop dodging?

Insert ANY "evil" thing you can think of (i.e. holocaust, flesh-eating diseases, rape/torture/murder, you name it) and tell us whether you believe God is either unwilling or unable to prevent them. The answer is one or the other. It is not that complicated. Which is it?

I've already given the answer....not the one they wanted.  Again, given I place myself between the presence of Jesus the man, and Him returning, this leaves me in the time of the Holy Spirit, a time where the Spirit acts on us and expects obedience.  This puts the answer as He is certainly able, but chooses to place the acting in our hands.....faithfully.  What is my part in the child's process?  Apparently from the group's opinion here, it's to stop my life and become a sex trafficking prevention/stopping person. 

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24 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

This puts the answer as He is certainly able, but chooses to place the acting in our hands...

So, in your opinion, he is able, but not willing.  Finally.  

 

Is god all-loving?

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3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

So, in your opinion, he is able, but not willing.  Finally.  

 

Is god all-loving?

Who said not willing?

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9 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

Who said not willing?

You did.  Is god all-loving?

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1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

You did.  Is god all-loving?

No, that's a misinterpretation on your part.   God empowers US to will through the Spirit.  Totally different than not willing. 

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"This puts the answer as He is certainly able, but chooses to place the acting in our hands.....faithfully."

 

...

 

"God" seems to put everything that needs to be done in human hands. I find this suspicious. But supposedly when we die he is  going to get off his ass and judge me? I'm doubtful.

 

Meanwhile, as God (should he exist) is refusing to do anything for his little ones except let the humans figure it out ... bad stuff is happening.  Why is this ok with you? 

 

https://polarisproject.org/human-trafficking/facts

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

No, that's a misinterpretation on your part.   God empowers US to will through the Spirit.  Totally different than not willing. 

 

God empowers us to do what we could do on our own, it would appear.

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5 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

God empowers us to do what we could do on our own, it would appear.

I'm not twisting your arm to believe...your interpretation is your deal.

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9 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

God empowers us to do what we could do on our own, it would appear.

That raises a question: .....what we could do on our own.....if what? If we were.....willing? 

 

I understand the atheist's frustration with the idea of a supposedly omnipotent god not stepping in and righting every wrong, but at some point we have to accept our own part of the blame for evil.

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4 minutes ago, Moonobserver said:

That raises a question: .....what we could do on our own.....if what? If we were.....willing? 

 

I understand the atheist's frustration with the idea of a supposedly omnipotent god not stepping in and righting every wrong, but at some point we have to accept our own part of the blame for evil.

I agree.  John Lennon's song comes to mind.

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Is god all-loving?

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6 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Is god all-loving?

Suppose there is a deity who is all-loving but unable to prevent all evil, either through not being omnipotent or because of the free-will principle. Would such a deity no longer qualify as a god? Vikings would cuss Odin up one side and down the other when they lost a battle. I remember a story about an assembly of Jews who found the God of Israel guilty of the Holocaust.....and then went to evening prayers. A "personal relationship with God" can span a broad range.

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17 minutes ago, Moonobserver said:

That raises a question: .....what we could do on our own.....if what? If we were.....willing? 

 

I understand the atheist's frustration with the idea of a supposedly omnipotent god not stepping in and righting every wrong, but at some point we have to accept our own part of the blame for evil.

 

We should accept our own part , if any, for evil we cause.  I agree. 

 

The point I think some of us are trying to make though is that God is praised by Christians for loving the children yet reality says that forced labor and human trafficking is a $150 billion dollar per year industry. God's plan to let humanity save the children (somehow via the working of the HS) is not working. 

 

I'm illustrating that God probably doesnt exist, because a real God that did exist and did love the children would not love them by allowing child slavery. 

 

Saying God empowers people to do something by human means is bullshit. Does God empower atheists to do something by human means? Why not just say that "A big nothing" empowers me to do what I'm already empowered to do. Pretty silly, imo.

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