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Kdeaustin

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2 hours ago, Kdeaustin said:

Thank you all so much for commenting back to me. I apologize for taking so long to respond. It’s been kind of a rough week for me. I did get to finally go to the doctor and saw my baby, so that was a plus. But it’s been kind of disappointing to not be able to really be happy throughout this pregnancy. The indoctrination of Hell is just so present and so scary. Just the thought of some force getting to rule our life with no authority of our own is just so scary to me. And the notion that we can’t really control what happens to us is just scary. I keep watching videos and trying to learn but it’s so hard to unlearn the things I’ve believed to be true. I’ve learned in life that with anxiety, most of the times when I’ve been scared of something it never happens. So I’m trying to cling to anxiety that way but it’s so real. 

 

I don't have the capacity to reply to everyone right now individually but trust me, I read everyone’s response and took it to heart and truly appreciated it!!!! Margee, I loved your testimony and shared it with my mom to explain how I was kinda feeling. She sympathizes with me. Really well. She is so compassionate. But she insinuates that it’s just a test from God & then tells me about how the end times are coming true. I know people have been saying that for years but she sends me specific things that are happening out of the Bible. Which is scary. 

 

 

Weezer, I tried to read your testimony but it wouldn’t come up. 

 

I have ave a good friend who isn’t a Christian and I keep sending her stuff and she keeps saying “see it doesn’t make sense.” So she has been a big support for me.

 

but I still have big questions that I just don’t know if I will ever have the answer to. 

 

There is good and evil in the world, so where does this come from? Where did we all come from? Is the Big Bang theory really any more plausible than the existence of God? Why does there seem to be crazy things that do happen like people mysteriously not having cancer anymore (this happened to my uncle) he didn’t get “saved” until many years later on his death bed. But I mean there are some pretty crazy things that happen just in general like sighting of “aliens” and “miracles.” And just the very real presence of evil. As far as rape & murder & torture. So it’s  just like where can these things come from?

 

and then my mom has been sending me all this stuff about how the Nephilim are really in Antarctica and the US government is going to enact Marshall law and how they bought a bunch of guillotines and how revelation is coming true right before our eyes? I really want some material that explains everything in revelation to that time. Does anyone know anything? 

 

Sorry thats a lot. Just everything I’ve been thinking. 

There are indeed many mysterious things which go on and there's nothing wrong with recognizing that. What we have to do, in my opinion, is avoid any dogmatic thinking on what's behind it all. I submit that dogma is the real enemy, whether it sends you to the stake to be burned or sends secret police to your door at midnight to haul you off to the gulag. We are small creatures in an unimaginably vast cosmos and it would be the height of arrogance to assume that its ultimate nature must conform to any paradigm of ours. And that, I think, is the real beauty of the universe: its mystery (Einstein himself declared that the most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious). As the saying goes, "Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it."

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If you haven't already done so, I highly recommend  contacting a mental health center and asking to see a doctor or therapist that specializes in working with cult victims.  I do NOT recommend a "Christian"  counseling center.  For you and your baby, you need help in dealing with your anxiety.  And reducing anxiety will help you think more clearly. And talking with a real person who cares can sometimes  be more helpful than reading about stuff.

 

Your mother in all likelyhood means well, but keep in mind that she has also been brain washed and is not thinking clearly.  Also, her health condition may be effecting her mental abilities.

 

 I am 78 years old and have heard the "world is coming to an end", or some other calamity, so many times I have lost count.  Those people create fear and anxiety, in themselves and anyone who will listen.  Look for the good, and you will find it.  Spend time with positive people who can see the good in life.  You tend to find what you are looking for, and you are looking in the right direction..  HANG IN THERE!

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Hmm, many of your questions seem to deal with lack of certainty. And that the answers you got seemed to fill that void.

 

It is a very common thing to all humans. Desire for certainty. It is related to a fundamental need of safety. The other is for affection.

 

Sadly, such a thing as complete certainty seems not to exist. You might find better results in finding ways to cope with uncertainty than to eliminate it. There are plenty of things with that I think.

 

And please please research what unfalsifiable claims are. In religious context. And arguments from ignorance.

 

A good website is the ICSA website. International cultic association.

 

My own personal desire is NOT to make you give a belief or another, but to empower you to see / think reality better with some mental instruments. You may reach widely different conclusions than me. And that is ok.  Or the same. That is ok . And they might change and switch according to new info and insights. Ok again.

 

For eternal Hell research Illaria Ramelli and David Bentley Hart two modern advocates of universal salvation, scholars with deep research in early history and theology not just some tv pastors. They have interviews on youtube and books. Both books released in 2019 I think. 

 

On questioning there is a youtube series by Anthony Bloom Eastern Orthodox Bishop. Might help. Search anthony bloom on doubt and questioning on youtube

 

Might help a little.

 

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Hi @Kdeaustin,

Thank you for sharing your story ❤️ 

Like many other people who've replied, I too can relate to your confusion, fear, and anger as you begin transitioning out of Christianity. It's very disorienting and anxiety inducing to begin challenging long-held beliefs about reality as you've known it to be, especially when people that you love (and who love you) still ascribe to those beliefs and tell you that you're just being tested by God or tempted by the devil (neither of which are true, at all).

De-converting and healing isn't a linear process, especially if you're someone who's prone to anxiety. It's very much two steps forward and one step back, but it's entirely feasible, and you can trust yourself that you're making thoughtful, healthy, and rational decisions for you (and consequentially for your baby).

Personally I've found therapy (with a secular therapist) and journaling to be very helpful in coping with the tumultuous and conflicting thoughts and emotions, as well as with various transitions and traumas that I have gone through both related and non-related to Christianity. 

There's also a video that I found comforting and encouraging when I first began doubting reality as I knew it. It's the true story a woman begrudgingly letting go of her faith and learning to see the world through an atheistic (or agnotistic - I can't recall exactly) lens. A lens that to her surprise turned out to be filled with meaning, creativity, hope, and love. I couldn't watch it the first time I was introduced to it, because I wasn't ready to admit to myself that I was loosing my faith. It was probably a year after I'd started questioning things that I came across it again and felt ready to watch it. If you get a chance to, I hope it also gives you some comfort and encouragement. 

 

Sending you a big virtual hug ❤️ 

https://youtu.be/C74-f4ZV-ss

 

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Kd,  also keep in mind that things don't always fit into "all right", or "all wrong" categories.  With time you can sort it out for yourself.  You don't have to buy into anyone's package deal.  HA!  Unless it is cable TV.

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On 10/5/2019 at 2:22 PM, Kdeaustin said:

And wondered if anyone else had went through anything similar. 

The short answer is YES. I am so sorry for everything you are going through! Truly welcome! I hope you find comfort and more answers here! I understand being angry.  My reasons or I guess, personal situation is different from yours, but I do understand the anxiety.  Have you looked into the concept of Scrupulosity or Religious OCD?  I'm not suggesting you have OCD - I am definitely not a medical professional.  From someone who has OCD, I think you might find the information useful, though, in regards to the source of your anxiety.  

I also grew up in a very conservative, fundamentalist family.  Most of my life I went to Christian schools, too.  My miseducation and also the influences of my family kept me from being able to properly deal with my anxiety and obsessive thoughts and compulsions.  Ritual is such a part of these cults! Obsessive prayer is also encouraged even when it could be seen as a bad thing, damaging especially a developing minds psyche.  

The biggest kicker for me happened after I had graduated from college.  I majored in History.  Ok, so, I decided, if Jesus was a real person, I could do a legitimate research paper on him.  Right? Wrong. There are no legit, citable sources that give us any information about a real person, Jesus Christ.  If anything, there is more evidence showing how the religion was cobbled together from existing spirituality cults of the time.  They just rewrote and combined old stories.  It's really incredible!  I never thought I'd discover he never really existed.  I mean.  At this point, I didn't even believe in hell, but to think that all of it is bunk!!!!  None of them were real!!!!

I was super super angry. Still am. Working on it.  But I have made major breakthroughs with my anxiety and OCD.  It's pretty remarkable.  It's like my brain was fighting itself.  I mean, to be in a state of constant cognitive dissonance was incredibly painful!  I'm still struggling, don't get me wrong.  But now, I no longer worry that I could actually be possessed by a demon.  I no longer care about things I did in the past that other people viewed as sinful. (and I have stories that would curl your hair, lol)  Because their opinions are absolutely not based on 'God's word.'  That is misguided man's word.  Christians have twisted most of the good out of it, too, if you ask me.  About the only person I see acting truly Christian these days is the friggin Pope.  (and he believes in climate change) (also, no I was never Catholic) At any rate, I truly get how your mind can twist in on you.  However, the more you view their ways as arbitrary and pointless, the better off you will become.  I wish you the best of luck.  Stay strong! You are on the right path! You're on your path. 

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Now actually there are scholars like Bart Ehrman arguung that a Jewish preacher named Jesus likely existed. He has a book about that. Have not read but would like too. And similarity does not necessarily mean influence. But if stories are human inventions , the human psyche has some core needs which it continously expresses. Like the need for protection, expiation from guilt, stability, reciprocity, etc. That could also explain certain similarities but Idk for sure.

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After a pretty extensive study, including the Gnostic Gospels, I decided he MAY have existed, but if he did, was fabricated into something he wasn't.   

 

Like Jupiter said, it really is interesting how so much of the Jesus story, and Christian religion, took on characteristics of much older deities and religions.

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Kd, I don't know if you are familiar with the Westboro Baptist church situation in Topeka, Kansas, but they are definitely a radical cult and have been on national news in the past. There is an article in our local paper today about a daughter (granddaughter?) In the founding family who left the cult after being active for years.  She has written a book about her experience, titled  "UNFOLLOW".  Her name is Megan Phelps-Roper.  You might find her story helpful.  She is handling her experience in a very healthy manner, and doesn't say it in exact terms in the article today, but it sounds like she is now agnostic.

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I wanted to let everyone know I’m not ignoring y’all. I’ve just been struggling with some things. I know you all are not believers. And I really tried to convince myself it wasn’t true. But the conviction that it is true is still there. I think it is true. I know the evidence for it not being is compelling but I think the evidence for it being true is compelling too. And I was reading some things like night about God’s character and things I thought were not good about his character in the Bible (like the story of the bears and the children) but I listened to a quick video on it and realized there was an explanation for this scene in the Bible that made sense in part. There are some things I will never understand about the God of the Bible. Ever. But I realized if He is real then I know His character cannot change. And if the word is true then He is good. So everything that He does is good and for a purpose. I started crying because I realized I need God and I need Jesus. I’ve never truly known Him I don’t think. And maybe that’s why He has allowed me to go through this to truly come to know Him. Idk. Or maybe I’m wrong and it isn’t all real. I think it is though. I felt a lot of love for God in that moment like my chest was going to burst out with love. But then it went away and I’m back to feeling anxious. But it seems like salvation is so easy in the Bible right? Just believe on Jesus name? If I believe Jesus is the Son of God and died for me on the cross, I hope that means I’m saved. 

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And I’ve been seeing the number 44 everywhere. Is there any Biblical meaning to this number that you all know of? My friend sent me a song today about God being faithful and the length of the song was 4:44 and then after that I went to look up the length of another song about him being faithful and it was 3:44. I’m seeing it everywhere on my phone on my clocks on other people’s clocks. I pulled into a parking lot a few weeks ago and two cars side by side had 44 on the end of the license plates. I was telling someone I’ve been seeing it everywhere and right when I was telling her a person on the tv said “I’m 44 years old” 

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37 minutes ago, Kdeaustin said:

Please y’all know I am all sorts of confused. 

 

You might want to read up on coincidences and the human pattern seeking behaviour and seeing significance in everyday things when in fact there is none.

 

It's like I never used to se my car make or model - now I see them everywhere. It's merely a function of your brain picking up on something and then attributing it as something special.

 

And no, as far as I'm aware there is no significance in the bible or Christianity to the number 44. Significant numbers in the bible are related to ancient symbology and the like. Things like 12, 7, 50 etc @Joshpantera is probably better clued on this than I am. (Not that these numbers actually mean anything - it's just humans attaching importance to them. )

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4 hours ago, Kdeaustin said:

And I’ve been seeing the number 44 everywhere. Is there any Biblical meaning to this number that you all know of? My friend sent me a song today about God being faithful and the length of the song was 4:44 and then after that I went to look up the length of another song about him being faithful and it was 3:44. I’m seeing it everywhere on my phone on my clocks on other people’s clocks. I pulled into a parking lot a few weeks ago and two cars side by side had 44 on the end of the license plates. I was telling someone I’ve been seeing it everywhere and right when I was telling her a person on the tv said “I’m 44 years old” 

 

As LF wrote above, you are programmed to see that. (Like LF, I bought a Subaru. I hadn't seen many of them around but since I bought mine, I'm shocked by how many folks have seen me driving around and then gone out and bought one. Amazing. I see them everywhere. I should get a commission from Subaru.  ;) )

 

Jump over to this thread and scroll down to LogicalFallacy's post about ten posts down. He makes a great argument that might give you some things to think about:

 

 

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13 hours ago, Kdeaustin said:

And I’ve been seeing the number 44 everywhere. Is there any Biblical meaning to this number that you all know of? My friend sent me a song today about God being faithful and the length of the song was 4:44 and then after that I went to look up the length of another song about him being faithful and it was 3:44. I’m seeing it everywhere on my phone on my clocks on other people’s clocks. I pulled into a parking lot a few weeks ago and two cars side by side had 44 on the end of the license plates. I was telling someone I’ve been seeing it everywhere and right when I was telling her a person on the tv said “I’m 44 years old” 

 

12 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

You might want to read up on coincidences and the human pattern seeking behaviour and seeing significance in everyday things when in fact there is none.

 

It's like I never used to se my car make or model - now I see them everywhere. It's merely a function of your brain picking up on something and then attributing it as something special.

 

And no, as far as I'm aware there is no significance in the bible or Christianity to the number 44. Significant numbers in the bible are related to ancient symbology and the like. Things like 12, 7, 50 etc @Joshpantera is probably better clued on this than I am. (Not that these numbers actually mean anything - it's just humans attaching importance to them. )

 

There's 144, such as the 144,000. From taking 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. But the biblical usage of symbology and numerology traces back to it's pagan origins and usages of astrological based mythology. There are 12 months, symbolized by 12 houses of the zodiac. That's why there's 12 tribes of Israel, 12 stones on the breast plate of the high priest, etc., etc. The 12 jewels of revelation and so on. All of the numerology comes observing the natural world and then making use of the observations in mythology. So numbers from a base of 12 play into the myth making. But there are more than just that. I don't recall 44 as a big topic of discussion for esoteric content, though. 

 

@Kdeaustin

 

I'm leaving a video here for you to watch. It's an interview about an interesting book. If you're serious about wanting to understand what you're doing and possibly WHY you keep seeing the same numbers all the time, don't blow this off. Watch the video in full.

 

Just in the first 10 minutes you can see how this content relates to what you're doing. 10 - 20 minutes starts to reveal how this can relate to one's personal mythology. Or thinking that the universe or a god is speaking to them. But that's not what the evidence shows. 30 minutes in, it's getting much closer to what you're telling us. Like I said, you should go through it all and ask questions if you have any. 

 

I'm currently listening to the audio book. You may want to go ahead and get the book afterward if you're interested enough: 

 

 

It's not just that you're seeing numbers for no apparent reason. You are doing this in some way. And there is a half way point to consider between just imagining that you're seeing coincidence and you actually generating these coincidences yourself, out of your own mind. It doesn't matter if 44 is part of biblical numerology or not. All that is required is you randomly seeing 44 a few times enough to get it into your subconscious mind. From there, it can take off wild by your own doing, without you realizing that you're the one doing it. You could literally be overwhelmed with something like the number 44 through this process. And there's naturalistic explanations. 

 

Hopefully this helps. 

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Thanks y’all. I’m just so terribly confused. I prayed so much yesterday. Me and my husband prayed together. I was sobbing. All day. I begged Jesus to just come talk to me, to hug me, to just let me feel the Holy Spirit. But just nothing. And I watched videos on the 700 club how people experienced Christ in a real way. How they could feel His presence. And all this stuff. And I just don’t understand why Jesus won’t do that for me. It makes me feel so unloved. But then I think I sinned too much and pushed the Holy Spirit away. Because I don’t feel genuine repentance or this strong desire to share the gospel. So it seems like I’m just doomed.

 

part of me is still like maybe it’s not real but then I just don’t know. I DONT KNOW. I’m just so tired of going through this. 

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it just doesn’t seem fair any of it. Why do we have to be on this earth tormented by Satan and tempted by sin and with confusing things all around us. It just doesn’t seem fair. We are just human beings. I’m just a human being, living with the cards I was dealt 

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And why does it seem so easy to lose your salvation why is everything so hard

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I am not in the bussiness of convincing you of anything.

 

But think pls about this. If you begin with God is good and everything he does is good even if I do not understand it you can justify everything.  From child rape and torture to psychotic episodes to wars to ponyes in the skies. 

 

In that sentence replace the word God with L Ron Hubbard. Or Allah. Or David Koresh. Or Osama bin lade. Osama bin Laden is good and everything he dies is good even if I do not understand it. Ted Bundy serial killer and rapist is good and everything he dies is good even if I don t understand him

 

To understand a little about the structure and duration of beliefs plase research cult psychology

 Steve Hassan,  Janja Lalich, Alexandra Stein. Jon Atack.The fact that yoi feel a strong conviction is not a sign of truth. Not saying it is false. But if the ISIS Daesh guys and Scientologist feel the same level of conviction and devotion to their Gods and prophets or interpretation of them, consider that emotional conviction is not in itself a sign of truth. Also google Yuval Laor awe and fervor. 

 

 I repeat, the idea is not for me to convince or impose certain beliefs, but I offer some tools to use and things to think about. Maybe your answers will be better  and better than mine.

 

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I just don’t understand. So many people have such loving encounters with God. Why doesnt he love me? Or if he’s not real then how do all these people have all these encounters? I don’t understand. I’m just so lost. and so afraid of hell. 

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1 hour ago, Kdeaustin said:

I just don’t understand. So many people have such loving encounters with God. Why doesnt he love me? Or if he’s not real then how do all these people have all these encounters? I don’t understand. I’m just so lost. and so afraid of hell. 

All of what you said is understandable and, personally relatable, Fear and confusion and guilt. They are, in some way, normal reactions in your situation.You are not alone or the first to feel like that. Sending compassion via the internet web 

 

I cannot offer you all the explanations in the world, but might give some pointers. You speak of loving encounters. This would mean some sort of personal experience. There so many things that provoke personal experiences, and many have studied and replicated in laboratories. Many people experience loving encounters while on some drugs, because those drugs modify the brain chemistry and produce those feelings reactions. You must know that even alchohol can produce certain reactions like euphoria in some people, which can be interpreted.

      Second, certain events, or areas, like church gatherings where al the people sings and feel something can produce a rush, like in any crowd. That is why sometimes decent peaceful people can become aggresive in violent when in large crowds.

      Third, if one has a sincere conviction he is actually talking to a loving God, that sometimes produces an effect. Expectations condition experience. If you believe that behind your door there is  a vampire, you feel fear no matter of the reality. Your body produces feelings consistent with your beliefs or interpretations of those beliefs. 

       Fourth certain tehniques, like long prayer, repetetive prayer, certain positions in the body when held for long produce effects in the body. Yoga postures are a great example of this.

      Fifth, some people just have brain misfirings or an hyperactive imagination. I have one. I graduated Screenwriting so I even worked it. I was in the top of my class. These creative people are the most suggestible to hypnosis or guided imagery forms.

       Sixth, fasting, or certain diets produce these effects. I once ate once a day some green leaves for some while, after a strict diet already and felt that I was floating. 

 

These only a few and very general explanations, naturalistic ones that COULD be also true in those conditions. 

 

Fear of hell is programmed in you since a long time ago. Many people struggle years after they are deconverted, some no. It depends. But many cults, The Moonies, to the Manson family to many put this fear of leaving phobia on. 

 

Now, if this God truly exists, then I would suspect his idea of LOVE is very different from ours anyway. So what you describe is your own experience and expectation. I learned this from Orthodox theology. God DOES NOT have feelings, these are only metaphors.And Orthodox mysticism is very, I mean VERY skeptical about feelings in general. Not despise or rejecting them, but healthy skepticism as they are not by themselves true indiction and can often lead one astray. So I hope if this God exists, he will show you the Truth in due time.

 

In the mean time, you have here some people that understand and have compassion for your experiences. It is not a lot, maybe only tiny bit, but it is something. And something real.

 

 

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Thank you. I just honestly don’t know that to think. It doesn’t seem fair to me. And the Bible seems pretty harsh. But I’m just so afraid of going to hell. I wish it wasn’t true. I wish God wasn’t real. I just feel like He is. Maybe he is and he’s just really scary. I don’t know. :(  I was feeling a little better the other night and kinda coming to terms with okay maybe Christianity really isn’t true. But then I started getting really scared like what if Islam is true, which seems even scarier. Whenever I had these feelings before of like “what if our religion isn’t the right one?” Then I would just come back to the facts I knew and would pray to God for comfort. Eventually I came really secure in the fact that Christianity is the real religion. And i had that comfort that everything else was false. But now if Christianity isn’t real then what if something else is? And what if that something else isn’t loving. Or what... idk. And a lot of Christianity makes sense. But then a lot of it just seems like God is so angry. And like why when people are really struggling why doesn’t he just come down and hug them. Like if my child was struggling really bad and crying and thinking about suicide I would run to them and hug them. Or if my child was struggling with faith in me I would do everything to prove myself. Why can’t God do that? I mean and maybe it’s just not all real. But then it’s like well where did we all come from and why are we here and like I’ve said before people have experienced crazy things. And like NDE. And miracles. And it just all seems so crazy for their to be no God. Idk and then it seems like a lot of stuff in revelation and Daniel is coming true. Idk if any of y’all pay attention to that but like hearing stuff about the free masons and how it’s just all really evil. Idk it’s hard to see the world as just there when I’ve been learning this stuff my whole life. 

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I really appreciate this website. But I really wish I could talk to someone in person who has deconverted or struggling with the same things I am. Does anyone know anyway I could find someone around me? Or do any of you happen to live somewhere around Roanoke, VA? Or like Greensboro, NC. I’m kinda between those areas. Idk if that’s a weird request or not. Sorry if it is. 

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Or anyway I can get a personal interview with Bart Erhman? Haha jk. 

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You're going through a very rough time, with a lot of anxiety. At this point in time I would recommend a mental health professional that you can talk to. Preferably a secular one who will let YOU come to decisions regarding your beliefs instead of unduly influencing you based on their own. 

As for the conflicting feelings and not knowing what you think, my advice there is do a lot of reading, (and I don't mean Christian apologetics) it will eventually lead to more clarity but this is a long process. It's a process that can include grieving, a lot of denial, and a lot of temporary changes in opinion due to that. 

There's also other important factors in your life that could be making this very difficult for you. One is the fact that your spouse is a Christian and you possibly eventually holding other beliefs may put your marriage under a lot of stress. The other is all the Christian believers that surround you who will do their best to tell you that Satan is tempting you, god is testing you, or some other such explanations. At the end of the day your convictions and beliefs or non beliefs also have to be strong enough to withstand the many forms of abuse from such people that can occur with the loss of belief. It's a difficult time which is why I think you need professional help. 

 

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