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Moonobserver

Catholic Eucharist

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The heart of Catholic worship is the sacrament of the Eucharist, and the heart of the Eucharist is the doctrine of transubstantiation. For those who have never been in the Catholic Church and are unfamiliar with this, it's the belief that the bread and wine consecrated for Communion become the literal, physical body and blood of Jesus. This is an absolute dogma which every Catholic must believe in order to BE Catholic.

 

The CC maintains guidelines stipulating that the bread administered in Communion must be made of wheat, since it was wheat bread used by Jesus when he initiated the Eucharist at the Last Supper. Wheat contains gluten, therefore the CC has ruled that its Communion bread must have enough gluten to qualify as wheat bread. Some people----including some Catholics----suffer from celiac disease, an allergic reaction to gluten which can make them violently ill. In an effort to accommodate them, the CC has authorized the use of low-gluten bread for Communion and the availability of separate wine chalices for gluten-sensitive parishoners to avoid cross-contamination.

 

The problem is that this leads back to the doctrine of transubstantiation. Logically, if transubstantiation actually takes place there should be no need for the CC to take any such measures to protect gluten-sensitive individuals, because once transubstantiation has occurred the gluten should no longer be there regardless of how much or how little there was to begin with. The CC claims that all of its official decisions are divinely guided. Why would they have to take measures to protect sincere believers from being harmed by the Body of Christ? It makes absolutely no theological sense.

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I'm shocked that the church did something that doesn't make sense.

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A cracker turning into Jebus dont make no sense to me.

 

Satan and gluten both end with the N sound....i dont think it's a coincidence.

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Why did god create celiac disease to begin with?

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Why did god create celiac disease to begin with?

 

A rather plausible answer is he didn't.  Imaginary entities cannot create disease.

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47 minutes ago, sdelsolray said:

 

A rather plausible answer is he didn't.  Imaginary entities cannot create disease.

Yes.  My question was asked "tongue in cheek," as it were.

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To any Catholics who may read this, I apologize for the direction this thread has taken. My intent was to illustrate, in as frank but as diplomatic a way as possible, a serious theological issue concerning the central doctrine of the Catholic Church; it was not my intent for the discourse to deteriorate into the base, sophmoric morass of gratuitous rancor it has since become. In considering my observation on this highly sensitive subject, of which I am confident you are more capable than some, I hope you will bear that distinction in mind.

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I hate to say it, but this is the kind of discourse you can expect on ex-christian.net, unless maybe you preface it with something like, THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION; DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY SERIOUS ANSWERS?

 

Having said that, the churches, catholic, eastern, anglican, etc. have their own weasely defintions of substance, presence, etc. that get them out of this kind of dilemma.  There was once even a heresy about the body of christ being present in one's feces after eating the host; they have an answer for that one, too.  I think the bottom line is, it looks like bread, it tastes like bread, it can give you celiac disease like bread, but, it isn't bread.  Until it is digested; then it isn't the body of christ anymore, and I guess it isn't bread anymore either.  And, it "surpasses understanding," which means you are not supposed to understand it.  Voila!

 

If you search "gluten transubstantiation" you get more information.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/celiac-disease-and-transubstantiation

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-is-the-vatican-so-obsessed-with-gluten

 

This is the kind of thing that settles any doubt about my being an EX-christian.  It's NUTS.  Not just the specific doctrine, but the fact that since the first century the teaching of the church has picked up debris like a snowball and has turned it into a bunch of divided churches that are nothing like the original.  That goes for things like the trinity, calvinism/arminianism, inerrancy, the nature of baptism, transubstantiation, etc.  If I had grown up in a church that taught, "If it is not in the apostles' creed, it is not important," I might still be a christian.

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6 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Why did god create celiac disease to begin with?

 

God did not create celiac disease.  We have disease because Adam and Eve sinned.  🙃

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6 hours ago, TEG said:

Interesting, and also telling. The CC absolutely insists on its communion bread being wheat, and absolutely insists that in order to qualify as wheat it must contain gluten----thereby firmly establishing gluten as an *elemental* substance of its communion bread, then dismisses it as an "accidental" substance when it makes people sick. That's the part that doesn't work out.

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2 hours ago, Moonobserver said:

That's the part that doesn't work out.

 

I get the strange feeling that you expect things to work out . . . .

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1 hour ago, TEG said:

 

I get the strange feeling that you expect things to work out . . . .

Rather, you seem to feel that I expect *illogical* things to work out. I don't.

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