Christianity gave us science???

[older]

I just read a column by Jay Ambrose, a conservative columnist, about Attorney General William Barr's recent speech on religious freedom. Ambrose repeats the claim that Christians are being persecuted, and goes on to write:

     "Christianity has been a major force in giving us science, universities, liberty and the values that still instruct to at least some extent the values of many nonbelievers."

 

Christianity gave us science? Liberty? Values? Are you kidding me?

 

Anyone who spends two hours studying the history of science and religion knows that Christianity has been anti-science for 2000 years. The father of modern science, Galileo, narrowly escaped death for demonstrating heliocentrism and was sentenced to life of house arrest; and at least one other person was burned at the stake for it. And Christianity has fought against science ever since; even today with significant numbers of Christians insisting that the universe is only 6000 years old, denying evolution, and more.

 

As to liberty, for centuries Christians used horrific brute force to impose their religion on others, and they continue to pursue such an imposition through legislating their beliefs, and through overt and covert social pressure.

 

Finally, the notion of "Christian values," is a commonly heard but specious claim. Most of the values Christians self-righteously label as their own are, in reality, universal values shared by many cultures. The only values that can rightfully be labeled "Christian" would be those that are not found anywhere else, and I have yet to hear a single one that is that exclusive.

 

I urge you to read Ambrose's column. It's yet another mind-bending screed from someone who knows little of history and who follows the real Christian values of defying logic, ignoring the facts, and denying reality.

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-tns-bc-ambrose-column-correction-20191025-story.html

[Wertbag]

While there was some suppression, there was also a lot of break throughs in science. The Jesuit order (a Catholic branch) was famous for inventing the calendar we use today as well as many other things:

https://aleteia.org/2017/08/01/12-jesuit-inventions-and-discoveries-that-might-surprise-you/

 

Many of the top universities were founded as religious institutions such as Oxford and Cambridge:

https://catholic.leadpages.co/10-/

 

Christian values is just pure junk. Things like women teaching, and the treatment of gays is completely different in Western society to what the church preached. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

As Wertbag said, they actually were involved in some good things despite all of the extremely nasty things they also did.

 

As to the claims, remember also that it is a cult mindset, a whole worldview that involves invisible beings guiding and manipulating all events. So they naturally attribute good things to the church and to God. Stupid claims like the 10 Commandments being the foundation of modern law and Corrections is hogwash to anyone outside of the cult, but such a feeling of validation to those that are inside.

 

That so many today still are utterly convinced of the existence of invisible beings is a sad commentary on how tolerant we are of the most rank bullshit. I see the political signs locally for "Family Values PAC" that says they are "protecting the nation", because their invisible friend will destroy us all if abortion is allowed to continue (which they think is human sacrifice to the other invisible being). The cult has indoctrination centers every couple of blocks in my city, be they "high church" or the more common non-denominational buildings. 12-step programs, jail chaplains, and the default respect our culture gives to the cult show how deeply trusted the lies are, and why there is so much resistance to science and so much embracing of intolerant judgment. 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

If science evolved from christianity, then why is there still christianity?

[LogicalFallacy]

It is more correct to say that some scientists were also Christian. To a Christian this might sound positive until you realise that the enlightenment happened in Europe and everyone in Europe was a Christian, so having scientists who were Christians is akin to proclaiming that they were humans.

 

However if Christianity gave us science then how did the dark ages arise when knowledge was actively suppressed by the Christian church.

 

Also science is about pursuit of knowledge and the bible makes explicit admonitions against knowledge. (Which is why fundamentalists are largely anti science... except when it suits them)

[older]

Here is a rebuttal posted on the Friendly Atheist website. The author makes some good points:

 

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/10/28/blaming-blowhards-for-why-were-not-a-christian-nation-misses-the-point/

[Wertbag]

On 10/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

It is more correct to say that some scientists were also Christian

Now days certainly, but in the case of the Jesuits they were Vatican funded to do research. It wasn't just that the individuals believed but the whole organisation put funding and resources towards those goals. Individuals struggle to be professional scientists cos ya still gotta eat and categorising life forms doesn't pay. 

 

On 10/29/2019 at 10:16 AM, LogicalFallacy said:

However if Christianity gave us science then how did the dark ages arise when knowledge was actively suppressed by the Christian church.

Don't forget Christians can't agree on any subject, to the point of killing each other minor differences. The Catholic Church had the inquisition, crusades and witch burning but other Christians thought they were horrific. The schism and the protestant breakaway both show massive discontent with the church becoming a political monster rather than an institution for worship. Power corrupts and the Catholic Church is a prime example of that. 

[Bhim]

I'm generally a fan of political conservatives but I'll be the first to say that this claim (common in the political circles I follow) is absurd. All scientists in the Western world were either Christian or Muslim until the past century or so. Does anyone really think Galileo or Newton were Christian's because they researched many religions and settled on Jesus? Or was it because Christianity was their only exposure to religion? Indeed, Newton was a heretic and would be expelled from any evangelical church today. It is true that universities were founded by Christian's and Muslims to study their respective religions, and that these studies branched out into science. But to say that Christianity gave us science is like saying that a particular canvas gives us art. It was part of the process, but it could have been easily replaced.

 

Case in point: most of the bright stars have Arabic names because they were catalogued by Muslim astronomers. Did this terrorist religion give us astronomy?

[Wertbag]

Science is an always expanding knowledge base, with each generation adding to the discoveries of the past. We can look to the Greeks, Romans, Chinese and Persians, all pre-dating Christianity, and see the scientific break throughs and improving education. But really it doesn't start there, as we can look back on hunter gatherer tribes and see their knowledge of medicine, construction, hunting, domestication of animals etc all growing. 

Modern science adds categories, best practices and peer review, but the base increase to knowledge is a purely human pursuit that shows no divide for race or religion.