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TheRedneckProfessor

How Do You Justify Worshipping a god in an Evil World?

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5 hours ago, midniterider said:

How Do You Justify Worshipping a god in an Evil World?

 

...

 

Why do you worship a God who obviously allows 10 year old girls to be bought and sold and sexually abused? 

Ask me question based upon facts and not your assumptions.

 

So can you explain why you believe the world is evil?  Of course that is going off topic because you really don't believe the world is evil but as anyone can acknowledge that evil things occur in the world. So in reality the whole premise of this topic is based upon baiting the Christian so that you beat on him to show that you are somehow superior, not those who believe in a higher life form than man exists in this world.  

 

Can you even define you beliefs about  truth?  Do you place any value in the truth?  I hear that if a person can't define their beliefs then they don't have any beliefs.    But I don't have to justify why I place value in a God of truth to someone who doesn't place any value in truth.

 

Like I asked before, do you feel any sense of responsibility for the abuse of these children for the evil perpetrated against them when your are telling the world that they have no responsibility other to self, oh but we're not here to examine how to work together but to rip on the other side.

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38 minutes ago, Justus said:

So in reality the whole premise of this topic is based upon baiting the Christian so that you beat on him to show that you are somehow superior, not those who believe in a higher life form than man exists in this world.  

 

It's a challenge for christians to answer up to these logical contradictions that are plainly laid out. The claims of christianity, outlined in detail, are evident and demonstrable logical contradictions. An all knowing, all powerful, an all present god doesn't gel with the fall of man and sin theology, to make it simple. For you, sin is conflated with evil and define the same way. To try and make an argument about the definition of evil and whether we believe in evil and what not is besides the point. None of that matters. 

 

What is expected out of any christians who choose to participate is to answer the questions directly, honestly, in their own opinions. But we're still waiting for the questions to even be answered, 3 pages later. If you concede that you believe in a self contradicting god, who you believe is all powerful, all knowing, and all good and yet contradicts itself by allowing sin / evil to exist, than just say so. Tell us the truth or win an argument that demonstrates that these are 'not logical contradictions.' 

 

Who can do that? 

 

Can any christian either tell us the truth and concede the point OR blast us apart with a counter argument that shows that we're precisely wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, florduh said:

Permit me.

 

Genesis 6:3 English Standard Version (ESV)

Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in[a] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”

 

Ah right - this is after the flood... that never happened. Well whoever wrote the psalm apparently hadn't read Genesis! 

 

So are our days 70 years or 120? Bit of a difference. Or perhaps observations about very old people of their times? Or is 10 simply a symbology considering its 3 x 40, and 40 seems to have symbolic importance in the bible. 

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11 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

If you don't understand the difference between "the" and "a", then you're not intelligent enough to converse with, and probably won't be, even if you live for 120 years.  Have a good day.

 

 But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to "the" measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, "a" measure to reach even unto you.

 

120 is just the final astoposis

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4 hours ago, Justus said:

Ask me question based upon facts and not your assumptions.

 

So can you explain why you believe the world is evil?  Of course that is going off topic because you really don't believe the world is evil but as anyone can acknowledge that evil things occur in the world. So in reality the whole premise of this topic is based upon baiting the Christian so that you beat on him to show that you are somehow superior, not those who believe in a higher life form than man exists in this world.  

 

Can you even define you beliefs about  truth?  Do you place any value in the truth?  I hear that if a person can't define their beliefs then they don't have any beliefs.    But I don't have to justify why I place value in a God of truth to someone who doesn't place any value in truth.

 

Like I asked before, do you feel any sense of responsibility for the abuse of these children for the evil perpetrated against them when your are telling the world that they have no responsibility other to self, oh but we're not here to examine how to work together but to rip on the other side.

 

 

Why do you worship a God who obviously allows 10 year old girls to be bought and sold and sexually abused? 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

It's a challenge for christians to answer up to these logical contradictions that are plainly laid out. The claims of christianity, outlined in detail, are evident and demonstrable logical contradictions. An all knowing, all powerful, an all present god doesn't gel with the fall of man and sin theology, to make it simple. For you, sin is conflated with evil and define the same way. To try and make an argument about the definition of evil and whether we believe in evil and what not is besides the point. None of that matters. 

 

What is expected out of any christians who choose to participate is to answer the questions directly, honestly, in their own opinions. But we're still waiting for the questions to even be answered, 3 pages later. If you concede that you believe in a self contradicting god, who you believe is all powerful, all knowing, and all good and yet contradicts itself by allowing sin / evil to exist, than just say so. Tell us the truth or win an argument that demonstrates that these are 'not logical contradictions.' 

 

Who can do that? 

 

Can any christian either tell us the truth and concede the point OR blast us apart with a counter argument that shows that we're precisely wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

Just a thought...why isn't "all good" or "perfectly good" to mean encompassing all good or the perfect good.  What you are describing in my mind is "only" good....limiting the actions to that which is only good.  I haven't studied the words, but it might be worth a look.  Thx.

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Why does the all powerful Jesus Christ who loves his little ones allow them to be kidnapped and raped as slaves?

 

Why would a Christian love an all powerful Jesus Christ who allows his  little ones to be kidnapped and raped as slaves?

 

...

 

Let's not babble on about how old people are supposed to be (120 years or whatever lie that is)  or bullshit about faith and belief. Right now Jesus Christ is watching children get kidnapped, raped and tortured. Why is this ok with Christians?

 

Why are Christians ok with a do-nothing God? 

 

"But I don't have to justify why I place value in a God of truth to someone who doesn't place any value in truth." --- You HAVE no justification anyway. Your 'God of Truth' is watching children get kidnapped, raped and tortured this very minute. Truth doesnt mean jack shit right now. Love and compassion would be just a little more important in this context, doncha think? 

 

Are you afraid to ask your Jesus why he doesnt save the children that the bible says he loves?  

 

...........

 

We used to sing "My god is an awesome god!!!! He reigns from heaven above." Lets fix the lyrics to reflect reality. "My god is an awesome god, who doesnt do a goddamn thing. He watches children get raped. My god is (for some unknown reason) an awesome god." 

 

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12 hours ago, Justus said:

 

 But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to "the" measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, "a" measure to reach even unto you.

 

120 is just the final astoposis

What "measure" did your god provide for our ten-year-old sex slave?

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9 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Just a thought...why isn't "all good" or "perfectly good" to mean encompassing all good or the perfect good.  What you are describing in my mind is "only" good....limiting the actions to that which is only good.  I haven't studied the words, but it might be worth a look.  Thx.

 

You are really trying to think these questions through, unlike those who ignore or evade them. Thank you. 

 

My answer to your question is that the orthodox christian claim seems to me to be stating that god is only good, prohibiting god from evil or sin whatsoever. But in contrast, an all encompassing god would have to encompass all good as well as all evil. Lest the god NOT be all encompassing and only partially encompassing. Such as not omnipresent, but only partially present, in a pick and choose where presence is and isn't sort of way. 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, midniterider said:

We used to sing "My god is an awesome god!!!! He reigns from heaven above." Lets fix the lyrics to reflect reality. "My god is an awesome god, who doesnt do a goddamn thing. He watches children get raped. My god is (for some unknown reason) an awesome god." 

 

Or worse, merely picks and chooses who he will or will not help. Because that's what people are doing. Something bad happens, oh well, it's mysterious god's will. Something good happens, praise the lord! Someone gets out of an accident or bad situation, god saved them! Someone else doesn't survive an accident or bad situation, well, back to mysterious ways. Honest inquiry and thought processes are swept under the rug. 

 

This god doesn't look very awesome to me. If it did exist, why would I want to grovel around or worship such a thing? Why would anyone? 

 

Christians, is an honest answer out of the range of possibility here? 

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Romans 8 does a good job of explaining the Christian view...

 

IMO, trying to find a decent analogy....maybe the old game Pick up Stix....throw down all those sticks and the jumbled mess will work out for those that love God.  It's a cluster-screw now, but on the other side of death/salvation, all the stix back in the can straight.   The intercession, knowing how to get pick up a stick, win the game.....kind of like the Spirit telling you which stick to pick without moving another (hurting your neighbor). 

 

From a non-believers standpoint.....it's "gravity acts on this stick with this constant and we can calculate that this stick will move based on the friction coefficient x such that we need to pull this other stick with this vector..." 

 

Both scenarios, I expect,  bring hope....but one is finite. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Romans 8 does a good job of explaining the Christian view...

 

IMO, trying to find a decent analogy....maybe the old game Pick up Stix....throw down all those sticks and the jumbled mess will work out for those that love God.  It's a cluster-screw now, but on the other side of death/salvation, all the stix back in the can straight.   The intercession, knowing how to get pick up a stick, win the game.....kind of like the Spirit telling you which stick to pick without moving another (hurting your neighbor). 

 

From a non-believers standpoint.....it's "gravity acts on this stick with this constant and we can calculate that this stick will move based on the friction coefficient x such that we need to pull this other stick with this vector..." 

 

Both scenarios, I expect,  bring hope....but one is finite. 

 

 

Does painting non-believers as emotionless scientific robots help you justify your unfounded beliefs?

 

Non-believers come in all flavors. They are Republicans, Democrats, Independents, musicians, accountants and clerks. They love, hate, experience disappointment and frustration, see the awe in nature and all that shit. The only thing they have in common is that they either never did or no longer buy into the narrative that you still hold as true, despite not really understanding it. You appear to be framing your position as though anyone who doesn't share your particular god belief is devoid of love and empathy and is lacking humanity.

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23 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:


Ah right - this is after the flood... that never happened.

Actually, this was right before the flood... right after the "sons of god" came down and had sex with the daughters of men and their children became "giants in the land and men of great renown."  Which totally happened.

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5 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

IMO, trying to find a decent analogy....maybe the old game Pick up Stix....throw down all those sticks and the jumbled mess will work out for those that love God.  It's a cluster-screw now, but on the other side of death/salvation, all the stix back in the can straight.   The intercession, knowing how to get pick up a stick, win the game.....kind of like the Spirit telling you which stick to pick without moving another (hurting your neighbor). 

I'm sure that our ten-year-old sex slave would probably appreciate a little more from god than a silly childhood game.

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3 hours ago, florduh said:

Does painting non-believers as emotionless scientific robots help you justify your unfounded beliefs?

 

Non-believers come in all flavors. They are Republicans, Democrats, Independents, musicians, accountants and clerks. They love, hate, experience disappointment and frustration, see the awe in nature and all that shit. The only thing they have in common is that they either never did or no longer buy into the narrative that you still hold as true, despite not really understanding it. You appear to be framing your position as though anyone who doesn't share your particular god belief is devoid of love and empathy and is lacking humanity.

Go re-read your posts and see how you are framing believers....then we can talk.

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I'm sure that our ten-year-old sex slave would probably appreciate a little more from god than a silly childhood game.

Coming from the guy that won't acknowledge God putting people in charge of their crap...

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Go re-read your posts and see how you are framing believers....then we can talk.

I was a believer, at least as sincere as you, and probably more Biblical😜 I have personal experience with believing.

 

My responses are rebuttals to your assumptions and platitudes.

 

Also, accusing me of mischaracterizing Christians in general, something I do know a thing or two about, even if true does not negate your own mischaracterizations of non-believers, of which you have no personal experience.

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Coming from the guy that won't acknowledge God putting people in charge of their crap...

 

Because God doesn't appear to exist... or did you miss that part of our general position here?

 

So obviously TRP isn't going to acknowledge God.

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

Coming from the guy that won't acknowledge God putting people in charge of their crap...

Please explain how god put a ten-year-old sex slave In charge of her own crap.

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1 hour ago, florduh said:

I was a believer, at least as sincere as you, and probably more Biblical😜 I have personal experience with believing.

 

My responses are rebuttals to your assumptions and platitudes.

 

Also, accusing me of mischaracterizing Christians in general, something I do know a thing or two about, even if true does not negate your own mischaracterizations of non-believers, of which you have no personal experience.

You don't know what my personal experience is...thanks. 

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Because God doesn't appear to exist... or did you miss that part of our general position here?

 

So obviously TRP isn't going to acknowledge God.

We are going to have a discussion where we don't consider the other position.  Lol.  And they made you a mod here with stunning insight like this?  But now that you mention it, TRP won't acknowledge our relevance to the story nor the potential effects... 

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2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

And they made you a mod here with stunning insight like this? 

 

I think you might be confused between qualities that make a good mod vs a good interlocetur. The lack of quality in one does not exclude a person from having qualities in the other.

 

As for the other parts in your post... and that coming from a guy who acknowledge his God is responsible for evil.  

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8 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Please explain how god put a ten-year-old sex slave In charge of her own crap.

Bumped for @Edgarcito

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On 11/1/2019 at 6:20 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What "measure" did your god provide for our ten-year-old sex slave?

Bumped for @Justus

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4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Bumped for @Edgarcito

I don't think God puts a 10 year old's welfare in their own hands....rather places the responsibility on the child's parents/guardians. 

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