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Makawe

Blasphemy holy spirit

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Hello everyone,

 

I wonder... what do you think the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

 

 

Like, first, I don't believe the bible writers were thinking of him as the 3rd person of the trinity, so we do not even know clearly what it is. And the text talking about the blasphemy is not even really clear to what it is...

 

All this to leave people with a text that could cause massive trauma and anguish and fear (and unfortunately suicide for some)... Good job!

 

What are your thoughts?

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8 hours ago, Makawe said:

Hello everyone,

 

I wonder... what do you think the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

 

 

Like, first, I don't believe the bible writers were thinking of him as the 3rd person of the trinity, so we do not even know clearly what it is. And the text talking about the blasphemy is not even really clear to what it is...

 

All this to leave people with a text that could cause massive trauma and anguish and fear (and unfortunately suicide for some)... Good job!

 

What are your thoughts?

 

Given the lack of understanding amongst 'experts' little 'ol me ain't going to speculate. Of course, I ain't going to worry about it either.😃

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Welcome  to Ex-c Makawe. Glad you are here with us!

 

We were always taught that blasphemy of the holy spirit was when you made fun of god in any way, shape or form. I used to panic if I laughed at someone's joke about heaven, hell or something... thinking I may have mocked god. But the worst blasphemy was when you accepted christ and then rejected him. This would be also rejecting the father and the holy spirit.

 

And you are so right....these man written ''scriptures'' have made so many lives miserable, including mine.

Keep posting!  

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The Bible is full of threats of dire punishments in the form of eternal torture. The one unforgivable sin is rejecting Christ’s sacrifice and thus the Holy Spirit. Is that the same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? 
 

The Bible is clearly a collection of human writings. It is replete with inconsistencies, contradictions, and factually incorrect statements. There is nothing Holy or inerrant about it. Christianity is just another run of the mill religion created by humans. It’s based on rewards and punishments, neither of which can be proven to exist. 
 

Our knowledge of science and the laws of physics tell us, with a high degree of certainty, that neither the reward or punishment found in Christian doctrine and beliefs can possibly be true. Faith is required because the promised rewards and threats of eternal punishment cannot possibly be true.

 

So, what does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit mean? Nothing, absolutely nothing at all. 

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In the context of the phrase, Jesus indicated it was when his enemies attributed his miracles to the devil. He threw a hissy-fit and said they were essentially damned. He did something similar to a tree that didn't have fruit out of season, he could have caused it to make fruit, but instead killed it.

 

But neither Jesus nor the devil actually exist, and the words and actions of Jesus were invented by someone writing the story. 

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Jesus’ description of it is found in Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-30.  The context is that he had cast out a demon, and the scribes and pharisees said, “This man casts out demons by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”  Jesus points out that satan would not cast out satan; that would be a kingdom divided against itself.  Then comes the blasphemy of the holy spirit part, and Mark includes the explanation: because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”  So the implication is that Jesus, the son of man, has the divine spirit of god dwelling within him, and it is unforgiveable to blaspheme that divine part.

 

Which is not exactly the trinity that the church came up with later.  It is more like the christology in the Shepherd of Hermas.

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Hi @Makawe,

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

Many religions have a "don't do THIS or you will receive <insert  horrible punishment! here>!" clause somewhere in their doctrine in order to coerce total and unwavering control over their subjects. Christianity is no exception despite the ubiquitous claim that they are all about love. Mrs. MOHO would argue that last comment saying that the xitian god is a vengeful god. (She says this with a look on her face that creeps me out.) Anyway, that discrepancy alone should not exist if xanity had any credibility.

 

So, stop worrying about what blasphemy is and focus on reclaiming your life.

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own)

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3 hours ago, TEG said:

Jesus’ description of it is found in Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-30.  The context is that he had cast out a demon, and the scribes and pharisees said, “This man casts out demons by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”  Jesus points out that satan would not cast out satan; that would be a kingdom divided against itself.  Then comes the blasphemy of the holy spirit part, and Mark includes the explanation: because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”  So the implication is that Jesus, the son of man, has the divine spirit of god dwelling within him, and it is unforgiveable to blaspheme that divine part.

 

Which is not exactly the trinity that the church came up with later.  It is more like the christology in the Shepherd of Hermas.

This is how I understood it.  Blasphemy of the holy spirit is attributing to humans, or worse, Satan, works that could only have been done by god.

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17 hours ago, Makawe said:

Hello everyone,

 

Hi, welcome to Ex-C

 

17 hours ago, Makawe said:

I wonder... what do you think the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

 

I think its ridiculous nonsense. It's a victimless crime against a non existent entity. Total bullshit.

 

In theological terms it's making fun of, or cursing God and includes ridicule and attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the devil.

 

However some Christian sects take things further to say anything that might transgress God that you don't ask forgiveness for is blasphemy.

 

But like I said - bullshit.

 

17 hours ago, Makawe said:

Like, first, I don't believe the bible writers were thinking of him as the 3rd person of the trinity, so we do not even know clearly what it is. And the text talking about the blasphemy is not even really clear to what it is...

 

No its not - but that's never stopped people making stuff up to suit their own agendas.

 

17 hours ago, Makawe said:

All this to leave people with a text that could cause massive trauma and anguish and fear (and unfortunately suicide for some)... Good job!

 

Yep - religion has a lot to answer for. To quote Hitchens - "religion poisons everything"

 

Again welcome, and as MOHO said - don't worry about 2000 year old nonsense from the bible. You don't worry about what's written in the Bhagavad Gita do you?

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On 11/5/2019 at 10:18 PM, Makawe said:

Hello everyone,

 

I wonder... what do you think the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

 

 

Like, first, I don't believe the bible writers were thinking of him as the 3rd person of the trinity, so we do not even know clearly what it is. And the text talking about the blasphemy is not even really clear to what it is...

 

All this to leave people with a text that could cause massive trauma and anguish and fear (and unfortunately suicide for some)... Good job!

 

What are your thoughts?

 

We went over this a while back and there are some twists and turns. 

 

On the surface, blasphemy of god generally means claiming that you are god, when you aren't god. I would think that blasphemy of the holy spirit would allude to people who claim to be speaking on behalf of the holy spirit, who are not speaking on behalf of the holy spirit. This works out to a plain understanding if blasphemy of god and blasphemy of the holy spirit work out the same general reference. God and holy spirit, whether viewed in triniarian terms or just gods spirit, are pretty much the same thing any which way it's spun. They always boil down to one. Three in one, means one in the end. 

 

But people usually interpret it as rejecting the holy spirit, or making fun, and similar examples I've seen posted here. In my church I don't recall anyone taking the way I've taken it above, the same as blaspheming against god by falsely claiming to be god. It could be that blasphemy is not the best translation for the context of the unpardonable sin. I think we explored that last time, but I don't remember what the conclusion was. I'll look back. 

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On 11/5/2019 at 7:18 PM, Makawe said:

I wonder... what do you think the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is?

How can you blaspheme something that doesn't exist?

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8 hours ago, older said:

How can you blaspheme something that doesn't exist?

Oops! Good example of blasphemy there!

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In the orthodox church I was in  there were three cases - atheism or rejection lack of belief in Christ, idolatry, etc, faith in the mercy of God to the extent that you do not repent and keep sinning because your are sure of salvation, and despair of the power of God to save you. So these are basically attitudes towards God that mean not reacting properly to his grace, rejecting it somehow. Something like believe the right way or die forever type of thing. Lack of communion with God where basically you do not ask or open yourself to receive forgivness.  Either you do not believe the stories at all or you believe them in a way that makes forgivness either useless as in the wrong type faith in mercy or impossible as in despair. And the text confirms this. Something that makes forgivness impossible.

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It struck me as odd even when I was a believer. One can be the biggest rascal throughout his life, but on his death bed if he just thinks, "Jesus! You really are the savior! Please let me into Heaven" then all is forgiven. All because of a last minute thought. Ponder that.

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On 11/26/2019 at 7:34 PM, florduh said:

It struck me as odd even when I was a believer. One can be the biggest rascal throughout his life, but on his death bed if he just thinks, "Jesus! You really are the savior! Please let me into Heaven" then all is forgiven. All because of a last minute thought. Ponder that.

I often did ponder that... usually immediately after reading a Chick Tract.

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