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Can you imagine any information or circumstances during the impeachment inquiry where you might change your mind about your position on impeachment?

65% said no.  And if you scroll down, the partisanship is grotesque.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/19/780540637/poll-americans-overwhelmingly-say-impeachment-hearings-wont-change-their-minds

 

(I am not trying to start a debate about whether the [expletive deleted] should be impeached, just pointing out how people make their decisions.  You might as well take a poll at the Alabama-LSU game about who should win; or whose religion is the right one.)

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1 hour ago, TEG said:

Can you imagine any information or circumstances during the impeachment inquiry where you might change your mind about your position on impeachment?

65% said no.  And if you scroll down, the partisanship is grotesque.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/19/780540637/poll-americans-overwhelmingly-say-impeachment-hearings-wont-change-their-minds

 

(I am not trying to start a debate about whether the [expletive deleted] should be impeached, just pointing out how people make their decisions.  You might as well take a poll at the Alabama-LSU game about who should win; or whose religion is the right one.)

 

Most people are single issue voters.

 

If Satan himself promised to make abortion illegal conservatives would vote for him.

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It's a little late in the game for people to change their minds. All the impeachable offenses have long been on the table, with mountains of evidence of all kinds, and the only thing left is to decide if they can be overlooked in the name of party, agenda or mandate from God. Mueller left it in the hands of Congress to do their duty once the facts were assembled.

 

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52 minutes ago, florduh said:

impeachable offenses

 

Isn't impeachment just a matter of a majority vote by the house of representatives, though? Therefore, the offense need not be real or substantial.

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Most people are single issue voters.

 

Unfortunately, that issue is often merely the name of a political party.

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19 minutes ago, ToHellWithMe said:

Isn't impeachment just a matter of a majority vote by the house of representatives, though? Therefore, the offense need not be real or substantial.

 

Impeachment means filing the charges, which requires a majority of the house.

Conviction requires a 2/3 majority of the (republican-controlled) senate, and that is why Nancy has been reluctant to do it.  If 66 senators vote to convict, that means acquittal, and an eternity of “I’m innocent,” “witch hunt,” “treason,” “disgrace,” etc.

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There’s a Surprisingly Plausible Path to Removing Trump From Office

GOP strategist Mike Murphy said recently that a sitting Republican senator had told him 30 of his colleagues would vote to convict Trump if the ballot were secret. Former Senator Jeff Flake topped that, saying he thought 35 Republican senators would vote that way.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911

 

Not that I’m advocating it, you understand . . . .

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37 minutes ago, ToHellWithMe said:

 

Isn't impeachment just a matter of a majority vote by the house of representatives, though? Therefore, the offense need not be real or substantial.

Quite true. Look at the Bill Clinton impeachment for example. Regardless of which party is in power everyone's overriding motivation is their own reelection by their target support base. Of course they all have to juggle that with corporate bribes being under the radar as much as possible. But as has been mentioned, single issue voters, that is most voters, are quite good at forgiving or ignoring the shenanigans of their elected representatives as long as they at least talk favorably about abortion, gun control, gay rights, or whatever their pet issue is.

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Here is an interesting view of the situation, a piece by David Roberts on Vox. Here is his opening paragraph:

 

Back in 2017, I wrote a piece speculating that the Mueller hearings might bring America’s epistemic crisis to a head. That crisis involves Americans’ growing inability, not just to cooperate, but even to learn and know the same things, to have a shared understanding of reality. We have sorted ourselves into polarized factions living in different worlds, not just of values, but of facts. Communication between them is increasingly difficult.

 

This is sort of like some of the threads here with some of our Christian friends, wherein the issue boils down to what someone accepts as true.

 

Here's a link. It's a rather discouraging piece but I recommend it:  https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/16/20964281/impeachment-hearing-epistemic-crisis

 

 

 

 

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         I have been lately preocuppied with the idea of actually living in different worlds, as in real perceptions of reality. I have read some mind control specialists AND trauma specialists and the results are that yes, it is possible that certain events or tehnques change the actual perception of reality, regardless of basic, normal as in biological , differences of perception. Trauma survival mecahnism cand make someone idealise or demonise someone, as in filtering and exaggerating some aspects uncounsciously as certain mind control tehniques like covert hypnosis. 

          And this is I think, a result of the ultimate survival mechanism of belonging. Christian martyrs and probably other types would rather die than be separated from their God, or do any act of disobedience. Of course there many who caved in, but anyway, the point is that belonging is a deep survival mechanism. It is just , as I read in one aticle, practical realism to see reality as your self designated tribe/father/mother figure does. That is why I suspect one needs to propose another tribe figure - like humanity, in a certain fashion, in order to replace the old one. We should inquire and work WITH our soul/biology , not against it. 

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