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Christopherhays

Why aren’t there many Atheist Republicans?

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I’m an atheist and a republican. I’m not thrilled with trump, but I’m terrified of the socialist ideas coming from top democrats. I literally work 100 hours a week on a regular basis. I do this because I have goals and ambitions... I’m passionate about building something that matters. Im afraid there will be no room for people like me in socialist America. People who work hard should get ahead. Lazy people should fall behind. Disabled people should be assisted. That’s what I want from America. I want the opportunity to achieve amazing things through hard work, creativity, and dedication. I’m afraid the hard working people will never get ahead because we have to pay for lazy people to have health care, housing, college, food, transportation etc. If I can get all those things by taking advantage of the system why would I work for them? I’m not bleeding for my business to get 10% ahead of the dropouts.

 

As atheists shouldn’t we be leading the charge when it comes to making progress in the world? To make progress we need hard working people to solve problems... that won’t happen if they’re not motivated. 

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Often conservatives are religious based, with their ideas being based on church teachings such as bans on abortion, bans on contraception, speaking out against gays, non-Christian immigration, or fighting sex ed and separation of church and state. While there are many one issue voters out there, you will find the more educated voters will look at candidates stances on a range of issues and find incompatible ideologies as they dig deeper. 

When the extremes are raving SJW's on one side and Christian bigots on the other, I wouldn't be surprised to find most atheists would be more central. 

 

As for not wanting to help lazy people, its understandable but very hard practically to implement. There are hard working people who fall on hard times, suffering illness or accident outside of their control. To provide help to those in need without giving handouts to those who want to milk the system is very hard. This is one area where Conservative speakers like Ben Sharpio struggle, when pushed to explain how aid to those in need should occur they give a hand wave "charity will pick it up", knowing full well that it never could with the resources available. 

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Don't assume that poor = lazy. While there are lazy poor people, there are a lot of hard working people (some holding 2 or 3 jobs) who barely scrape by. There are also people with decent paying jobs who are lazy and get away with it.

 

The problem with politicized discussions about issues like this is that both sides talk past each other and paint an unbalanced picture. While many liberals approach it as though the poor are all hard workers who've simply not had good opportunities (thus ignoring those who bilk the system), many conservatives approach it as though they're all lazy leeches (thus ignoring the hard work and struggle that many endure).

 

I don't claim to know the answer to how best to deal with the problem, but the reality is that it's a mixed bag, and both sides oversimplify the issue and slant it based on their own biases.

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P.S. -- As Wertbag mentioned, the Republican party is too intertwined with religious nutjobs. I used to be a Republican when I was a Christian, but after waking up to the reality that religion is a farce, I eventually switched to No Affiliation. The Republican party's attempts at marrying religion and politics makes it the most dangerous party we have. 

 

It would seem to me that most conservative atheists would be more aligned with Libertarians than Republicans. 

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The country seems to be as deeply divided politically as it was just prior to the Civil War, and the battle lines appear to be about in the same places. 
 

Compromise has become a dirty word in Washington and those that endorse it often find themselves looking for a job after the elections. Radical extremism seems to be driving both parties. 
 

I think the extremists on both sides politically have placed the country teetering on the brink of mass anarchy. Many major metropolitan areas have been overrun with violence and homelessness. And there appears to be no political solution to any of the major problems facing the country because we’re so divided. 
 

 

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I think Republicans and Christians share an authoritarian mindset. Atheists and free thinkers are not welcome in either camp. Funny, because if Jesus existed he was a Socialist and everything he espoused ran counter to the ideals of Republicans.

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I want separation of church and state too... I don’t see republicans fighting against that. Abortion is way more complicated than most Democrats admit. Humans should not be killed. Babies don’t magically become humans After they leave the womb. There’s a time when they’re a blob of cells and a time when they’re human. How can any of us know when it’s appropriate to kill such a thing?  With immigration I do think we need to improve our policies. I don’t want to discriminate against religion or races, but we want people to come here for the American Dream, not because you can get free stuff and live an easy life. The democratic border policy scares me far more. 
 

I never said poor people are lazy... I’ve been poor most my life, but I always managed without taking handouts. Maybe if I was disabled or had kids it would be different. I fully support the government stepping in then. 
 

I used to work two jobs while classes were out to save for the next semester. One time I worked night shift at a gas station and days at a sandwich shop. I remember having a lame employee discount so I never ate the awesome food I made. Meanwhile I’m handing out 100s of dollars worth of cigarettes to ebt customers on night shift, and 100s of dollars worth of subs to food stamps on day shift. At least half of my family is on food stamps and live in government housing. Every one of them can work but they don’t. They fill out job applications and say straight up that they don’t want the job. There is a huge problem with lazy people taking advantage of us. We need to support the children and the disabled, but the rest of us need to suck it up and do something with our lives.

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I am an atheist and while I despise Trump, I am not sure if I want to vote for any of the democratic front-runners either.  I try my darndest to use judgment on social issues, but sometimes I think I am a tiny minority.  Unbridled capitalism is no better than unbridled socialism.  The Czar lived in luxury while his people were starving; then when the bolsheviks took over they ruthlessly murdered their enemies and ended up with Stalin.  Today we have Trump who just wants to take the money and run, and cut his friends in on it if they play along; and people like Sanders and Warren who woo voters with a “pony for every child” platform without too many details on how it will happen.

 

It is much harder to use judgment and make rational decisions about social issues than it is to just adopt a knee-jerk reaction to everything.  “Conservative” reaction:  oppose everything that is different from you.  “Liberal” reaction:  hand out everything to everybody.  And I think the fundamentalist/evangelical world view is more naturally suited to the conservative side.  There is a sensible conservatism that says we need things like responsible immigration laws and responsible gun laws; then there is the mindless conservatism that says, outlaw gays, outlaw muslims.  And there is a sensible liberalism that says people of lesser ability who still do an honest day’s work should earn a decent living and basics like health care; and mindless liberalism that is willing to take from the rich and give to those who believe work is for losers.

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10 minutes ago, Christopherhays said:

There is a huge problem with lazy people taking advantage of us. We need to support the children and the disabled, but the rest of us need to suck it up and do something with our lives.

I think the majority of people agree that freeloaders should be stopped while those suffering through no fault of their own should be supported. The question is how to implement schemes to achieve that goal? 

Its also made harder if you don't want to punish children that have lazy parents. The kids have no say and no ability to earn, so food on their table comes via handouts to their lazy carers. Cut them off and the kids don't eat, don't get an education, don't get clothes and have poor health. This is a riddle I've never seen an answer to. 

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19 minutes ago, Christopherhays said:

I never said poor people are lazy...

 

It was certainly the impression your OP gave, so thanks for clarifying. 

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I always find it odd that when someone is incensed about some poor bastard getting food stamps for his family they also turn a blind eye to the corporate welfare, tax breaks and loopholes reserved for the very wealthy and the rapidly growing extreme disparity between rich and poor. They also believe the repeatedly debunked lie of trickle down economics. The rich get more of your tax money than the poor, and ALL of the rich are undeserving.  A FEW of the poor receiving help are undeserving, but no system can be perfect and weed out all the cheaters. So what would Jebus do???

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Left to itself, wealth always trickles up.  In last month’s Scientific American:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-inequality-inevitable/

 

(It also describes an interesting sucker bet.  Gotta try it on someone . . . .)

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3 hours ago, Christopherhays said:

I want separation of church and state too... I don’t see republicans fighting against that.

 

Q: Who are the ones who push for creationism to be taught in public schools?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who push for public schools to teach the Bible or have programs for children to go to a church for part of the day for Bible study?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want public schools to force Christian prayers on the students?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want overtly Christian symbols on government property?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want government meetings opened with Christian prayer?
A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want to deny LGBT people rights based on their religion?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who push back against those who raise concerns about violations of the separation of church and state?
A: Republicans

 

Of course, not all Republicans do that stuff, but practically all of those who do those things are Republicans, and those who don't directly endorse those things often passively let it continue within their ranks.

 

3 hours ago, Christopherhays said:

Abortion is way more complicated than most Democrats admit. Humans should not be killed. Babies don’t magically become humans After they leave the womb. There’s a time when they’re a blob of cells and a time when they’re human. How can any of us know when it’s appropriate to kill such a thing?

 

Abortion is way more complicated than most Republicans admit. They oversimplify it by labeling it all as murder, many calling for a ban even when it's just a "blob of cells." The fact is that the vast majority of abortions take place prior to brainwaves being present, in which case the fetus cannot have any feeling whatsoever, thus removing any cruelty factor. I would agree that abortions after that are more problematic, but to my understanding most of those are cases of serious medical issues.

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10 hours ago, TEG said:

I am an atheist and while I despise Trump, I am not sure if I want to vote for any of the democratic front-runners either.  I try my darndest to use judgment on social issues, but sometimes I think I am a tiny minority.  Unbridled capitalism is no better than unbridled socialism.  The Czar lived in luxury while his people were starving; then when the bolsheviks took over they ruthlessly murdered their enemies and ended up with Stalin.  Today we have Trump who just wants to take the money and run, and cut his friends in on it if they play along; and people like Sanders and Warren who woo voters with a “pony for every child” platform without too many details on how it will happen.

 

It is much harder to use judgment and make rational decisions about social issues than it is to just adopt a knee-jerk reaction to everything.  “Conservative” reaction:  oppose everything that is different from you.  “Liberal” reaction:  hand out everything to everybody.  And I think the fundamentalist/evangelical world view is more naturally suited to the conservative side.  There is a sensible conservatism that says we need things like responsible immigration laws and responsible gun laws; then there is the mindless conservatism that says, outlaw gays, outlaw muslims.  And there is a sensible liberalism that says people of lesser ability who still do an honest day’s work should earn a decent living and basics like health care; and mindless liberalism that is willing to take from the rich and give to those who believe work is for losers.


I agree completely that far right and far left are both dangerous... but what’s more dangerous right now? Are the republicans more likely to outlaw homosexuality? or are democrats more likely to outlaw airplanes and prisons? Republicans aren’t nearly as dangerous from my perspective.

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10 hours ago, Wertbag said:

I think the majority of people agree that freeloaders should be stopped while those suffering through no fault of their own should be supported. The question is how to implement schemes to achieve that goal? 

Its also made harder if you don't want to punish children that have lazy parents. The kids have no say and no ability to earn, so food on their table comes via handouts to their lazy carers. Cut them off and the kids don't eat, don't get an education, don't get clothes and have poor health. This is a riddle I've never seen an answer to. 


I don’t claim to have all the answers... but I’ve never seen a Democrat even acknowledge the issue! 

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10 hours ago, florduh said:

ALL of the rich are undeserving.  


This is exactly the attitude that terrifies me. I won’t let someone else decide what I deserve. If I work 100 hours a week, take risks others won’t,  and build something that improves people’s lives... I DESERVE something. I EARNED something. My business didn’t happen because of where I was born, or who my parents were. I lived in a van with nothing but a lap top when I started. every inch I’ve scratched and clawed up the ladder to prosperity was earned with blood, sweat, and tears. Why shouldn’t I deserve what Ive earned? 
 

if you made 25k last year you’re in the top 10% in the world. Did you give all your income away but $1500 last year? Because that’s what you’d need to do to be middle class... 

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9 hours ago, Citsonga said:

 

Q: Who are the ones who push for creationism to be taught in public schools?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who push for public schools to teach the Bible or have programs for children to go to a church for part of the day for Bible study?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want public schools to force Christian prayers on the students?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want overtly Christian symbols on government property?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want government meetings opened with Christian prayer?
A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who want to deny LGBT people rights based on their religion?

A: Republicans

 

Q: Who are the ones who push back against those who raise concerns about violations of the separation of church and state?
A: Republicans

 

Of course, not all Republicans do that stuff, but practically all of those who do those things are Republicans, and those who don't directly endorse those things often passively let it continue within their ranks.

 

 

Abortion is way more complicated than most Republicans admit. They oversimplify it by labeling it all as murder, many calling for a ban even when it's just a "blob of cells." The fact is that the vast majority of abortions take place prior to brainwaves being present, in which case the fetus cannot have any feeling whatsoever, thus removing any cruelty factor. I would agree that abortions after that are more problematic, but to my understanding most of those are cases of serious medical issues.


 

I don’t think any of those things are being pushed that hard by serious politicians. I was homeschooled under direct supervision of the church until I turned 18. We pledged allegiance to the Bible every morning, our textbooks said evolution was a hoax, we took bible classes every day, and we prayed before every meal... and I’m totally fine. The brainwashing didn’t work even when carried out to that extreme. I don’t think any religion should be practiced in school or on government hours, but whatever they’re doing can’t be any worse than what I went through. Religion is dying off and it will continue to die. I don’t see it as a serious threat to my country... but the things the democrats are pushing seem like a serious threat to the well being of America. 
 

 

 

As far as abortion goes I think we mostly agree! I don’t see any republicans protesting condoms and I don’t see any democrats killing toddlers. Somewhere in the middle there’s a gray area we can justifiably disagree about. The media on both sides has done a horrible job with this issue. It’s not about women’s rights or murder. 

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On 11/25/2019 at 12:21 AM, Christopherhays said:

I agree completely that far right and far left are both dangerous... but what’s more dangerous right now? Are the republicans more likely to outlaw homosexuality? or are democrats more likely to outlaw airplanes and prisons? Republicans aren’t nearly as dangerous from my perspective.

 

Wow. I could not disagree more. The notion that Democrats would outlaw airplanes or prisons is laughable. There are certainly Republicans bent on criminalizing homosexuality, though.

 

On 11/25/2019 at 1:22 AM, Christopherhays said:

I don’t think any of those things are being pushed that hard by serious politicians.

 

They're constantly pushing for that crap. ALL THE TIME.

 

On 11/25/2019 at 1:22 AM, Christopherhays said:

I was homeschooled under direct supervision of the church until I turned 18. We pledged allegiance to the Bible every morning, our textbooks said evolution was a hoax, we took bible classes every day, and we prayed before every meal... and I’m totally fine. The brainwashing didn’t work even when carried out to that extreme.

 

Count yourself lucky, then. The brainwashing does work on a lot of people, and not just stupid people.

 

On 11/25/2019 at 1:22 AM, Christopherhays said:

Religion is dying off and it will continue to die. 

 

Yes and hopefully so, but no thanks to the Republicans doing their damnedest to keep pushing religion.

 

On 11/25/2019 at 1:22 AM, Christopherhays said:

but the things the democrats are pushing seem like a serious threat to the well being of America. 

 

I'm not defending Democrats per se. They certainly have their problems as well. However, the Republicans are the bigger threat to the well-being of America.

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7 hours ago, Christopherhays said:


This is exactly the attitude that terrifies me. I won’t let someone else decide what I deserve. If I work 100 hours a week, take risks others won’t,  and build something that improves people’s lives... I DESERVE something. I EARNED something. My business didn’t happen because of where I was born, or who my parents were. I lived in a van with nothing but a lap top when I started. every inch I’ve scratched and clawed up the ladder to prosperity was earned with blood, sweat, and tears. Why shouldn’t I deserve what Ive earned? 
 

if you made 25k last year you’re in the top 10% in the world. Did you give all your income away but $1500 last year? Because that’s what you’d need to do to be middle class... 

 

You're twisting my meaning to your advantage.

 

The rich are undeserving of sweetheart tax breaks and loopholes that provide them even more advantage over the poor. They are not undeserving of their wealth, they are undeserving of special treatment in the form of lower taxes and loopholes they lobbied to get, thus putting the rest of us at disadvantage.

 

But the fact is that the extremely wealthy, the billionaire class, by and large did not pull themselves up by their bootstraps and build their fortune by their own sweat and innovation. Most all were born into the upper class and had their first millions handed to them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, florduh said:

Most all were born into the upper class and had their first millions handed to them.

 

But perhaps the filthy rich deserve to make their kids rich. It's their money and if they want to use it to give the best possible life for their kids, that's their perogative.

 

But discussing morals like that is somewhat useless. We will be self-interested anyway, so let's skip directly to that. What rules can we set so that the rich people are forced to hand most of their money back to us common people? This train of thought alone leads to socialistic idealism, so we'd better temper it by remembering the opponent can make moves, too.

 

We gotta ask ourselves what should the rich and powerful do in order to keep their money and power to themselves. How can they avoid having to give us more than what we need to keep ourselves productive? And if socialistic ideas seem to be gaining in popularity, how should they use that naïvety to grab more power instead?

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2 minutes ago, ToHellWithMe said:

But perhaps the filthy rich deserve to make their kids rich. It's their money and if they want to use it to give the best possible life for their kids, that's their perogative.

 

I merely pointed out that the ultra wealthy don't get that way from hard work and therefore anyone could be a billionaire if they only tried hard enough. Of course it's your money to do with as you please. I wouldn't presume to think nobody should pass on their empire to the kids. Again, my issue is with rampant welfare for the rich in light of the perception that food stamps are our big problem.

 

Pay attention, folks.

 

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1 hour ago, florduh said:

 

I merely pointed out that the ultra wealthy don't get that way from hard work and therefore anyone could be a billionaire if they only tried hard enough. Of course it's your money to do with as you please. I wouldn't presume to think nobody should pass on their empire to the kids. Again, my issue is with rampant welfare for the rich in light of the perception that food stamps are our big problem.

 

Pay attention, folks.

 


I don’t support ultra rich getting tax breaks. Everyone should contribute... but a real effort needs to be made to keep people from taking advantage of the system.
 

Their are democratic loop holes too, my next door neighbor hosts several pregnant immigrants a month. They come here to have their babies so they can gain citizenship easily for the whole family. 

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3 hours ago, Christopherhays said:


I don’t support ultra rich getting tax breaks. Everyone should contribute... (1) but a real effort needs to be made to keep people from taking advantage of the system.
 

Their are democratic loop holes too, my next door neighbor hosts several pregnant immigrants a month. (2) They come here to have their babies so they can gain citizenship easily for the whole family. 

 

(1) The wealthy and the corporations take the most advantage.

 

(2) So I take it you are a Native American and not from a filthy immigrant family???

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, florduh said:

(1) The wealthy and the corporations take the most advantage.

 

 

Although that statement may be true, I challenge you to provide the supporting data.

 

26 minutes ago, florduh said:

(2) So I take it you are a Native American and not from a filthy immigrant family???

 

My ancestors have been in the US since the middle 17th century. I can't begin to understand what ancient history has to do with current affairs, but your angry opinion is noted. 

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7 minutes ago, webmdave said:

 

Although that statement may be true, I challenge you to provide the supporting data.

 

 

My ancestors have been in the US since the middle 17th century. I can't begin to understand what ancient history has to do with current affairs, but your angry opinion is noted. 

 

For starters: https://thinkbynumbers.org/government-spending/corporate-welfare/corporate-vs-social-welfare/

 

Being a nation of immigrants it seems odd that now many of us are opposed to immigration by any means. Many are even opposed to sanctuary for those at risk. I still wonder, what's wrong with immigrants coming to a nation of immigrants? Your heritage as being from a family of immigrants isn't diminished by time. It happened and that's why you are today an American.

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