Logic Discussion

[WalterP]

If you want this thread to go anywhere Endgarcito3,  try meeting us in the red zone.

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I'm offering to hear YOUR scientific mechanism(s) supporting morality....because it's real apparently per the Prof.... and no one is offering squat. 

 

16 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Your very presence on this website demonstrates the morality of free speech and the free exchange of ideas.  Not exactly a biggie, like "Thou shalt not kill," or "Thou shalt not rape ten-year-old sex slaves;" but still a relevant, and public, demonstration.  

 

I call bullshit.

 

I made the statement that morality is demonstrable and then I backed that shit up with an example.  What you got?

[Edgarcito]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 

 

I call bullshit.

 

I made the statement that morality is demonstrable and then I backed that shit up with an example.  What you got?

You have no definition for morality.....so the rest is yeah, bullshit. 

[Edgarcito]

1 hour ago, WalterP said:

If you want this thread to go anywhere Endgarcito3,  try meeting us in the red zone.

 

 

 

 

Look at all the colors.....yay!!!

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Damn, son, you never were this much of a troll when you were End3.

[florduh]

30 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Damn, son, you never were this much of a troll when you were End3.

 

He's been away for awhile. Whatever civilizing influence we had wore off after he was released back into the wild. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

You have no definition for morality.....so the rest is yeah, bullshit. 

Since we're attempting to discuss logic, can you please explain how you come to conclude that the lack of a definition renders something as bullshit?

[Edgarcito]

14 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Since we're attempting to discuss logic, can you please explain how you come to conclude that the lack of a definition renders something as bullshit?

The way I see it, we can perhaps guess at some immediate form of morality.  X thinks and does Y for someone else.  Again, we might conclude this to be an immediate moral process,  but logically, we really don't hold the high ground on what acts are ultimately moral.....did X's thoughts and acts remain moral long term.  We don't know....morality is either has a transient cultural or an absolute definition. 

 

And I'm just trying to hold you to a scientific definition of whatever you're arguing because that's the only evidence you seemingly accept.  Which is why I blew a gasket when you said morality was demonstrable....

 

We have a pretty good chance for defining the FSM, his noodly appendages, and his flight dynamics....but not so much the mechanisms for morality, joy, etc.  If I were to start that conversation, I might try to understand then chemistry of Demerol....

[WalterP]

30 minutes ago, Edgarcito said:

The way I see it, we can perhaps guess at some immediate form of morality.  X thinks and does Y for someone else.  Again, we might conclude this to be an immediate moral process,  but logically, we really don't hold the high ground on what acts are ultimately moral.....did X's thoughts and acts remain moral long term.  We don't know....morality is either has a transient cultural or an absolute definition. 

 

And I'm just trying to hold you to a scientific definition of whatever you're arguing because that's the only evidence you seemingly accept.  Which is why I blew a gasket when you said morality was demonstrable....

 

We have a pretty good chance for defining the FSM, his noodly appendages, and his flight dynamics....but not so much the mechanisms for morality, joy, etc.  If I were to start that conversation, I might try to understand then chemistry of Demerol....

 

I demonstrated my morality in this thread, Endgarctio3.

 

I did it by forgiving you when you insulted me.

 

Morality is demonstrated by our behaviour.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

Edgarcito.

 

Have you wondered why it is that the Prof and I are on the same page about morality being demonstrable, without conferring with each other?

 

That we can see each others given examples of morality in this thread, without checking with each other?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[Edgarcito]

20 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

I demonstrated my morality in this thread, Endgarctio3.

 

I did it by forgiving you when you insulted me.

 

Morality is demonstrated by our behaviour.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

It's like you didn't read what I just wrote.  I can regularly watch demonstrable morality.  I am looking for a scientific definition.  Please don't bother responding unless you have something relevant to a proposed scientific definition of morality.  If we can define it physically, then we can do all kinds of wonderful stuff....  REMEMBER, it's not valid unless we can have reasonably high certainty...

[Edgarcito]

13 minutes ago, WalterP said:

Edgarcito.

 

Have you wondered why it is that the Prof and I are on the same page about morality being demonstrable, without conferring with each other?

 

That we can see each others given examples of morality in this thread, without checking with each other?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

No, hasn't even opened the door to my mind.....thanks.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

morality is either has a transient cultural or an absolute definition. 

This is a false dichotomy. 

 

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

And I'm just trying to hold you to a scientific definition of whatever you're arguing because that's the only evidence you seemingly accept.  Which is why I blew a gasket when you said morality was demonstrable

This is a strawman.

 

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Since we're attempting to discuss logic, can you please explain how you come to conclude that the lack of a definition renders something as bullshit?

When I ask you to explain how you came to your conclusion, I mean for you to use logic, not a couple of logical fallacies, which neither support, nor lead to, your conclusion.  Try again.

[TEG]

2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Damn, son, you never were this much of a troll when you were End3.

 

It takes two to argue!  Just curious; do you guys answer crank calls and talk to telemarketers?  Or answer spam e-mail?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, TEG said:

 

It takes two to argue!  Just curious; do you guys answer crank calls and talk to telemarketers?  Or answer spam e-mail?

I don't.  But when the Mormons come a-knocking, I invite them in and offer them tea.

[midniterider]

The reality of morality does not prove or disprove the reality of Jesus. If morality is shown not to exist because it is not made of matter, this does not bolster the certainty level of Jesus. 

[TEG]

16 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

But when the Mormons come a-knocking, I invite them in and offer them tea.

 

I couldn’t imagine myself doing that; to me, it would be the biggest waste of time imaginable.  I even agree with jehovah’s witnesses when they say the bible does not teach the trinity.  But that’s as far as it goes; I’ve had enough of people trying to convert me for one lifetime.

[sdelsolray]

1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

No, hasn't even opened the door to my mind.....thanks.

 

 

A simple google search may open the door to your mind:

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3770908/

 

https://kids.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/frym.2016.00003

[TheRedneckProfessor]

33 minutes ago, TEG said:

 

I couldn’t imagine myself doing that; to me, it would be the biggest waste of time imaginable.  I even agree with jehovah’s witnesses when they say the bible does not teach the trinity.  But that’s as far as it goes; I’ve had enough of people trying to convert me for one lifetime.

Oh, they give up on trying to convert me about 5 minutesinto the conversation.  From then on, they're just trying to hold their own.

[midniterider]

7 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Oh, they give up on trying to convert me about 5 minutesinto the conversation.  From then on, they're just trying to hold their own.

 

The longer you act interested, the fewer people they can get to that day.

[WalterP]

6 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

No, hasn't even opened the door to my mind.....thanks.

 

Then why don't you try opening the door?

[WalterP]

6 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

It's like you didn't read what I just wrote.  I can regularly watch demonstrable morality.  I am looking for a scientific definition.  Please don't bother responding unless you have something relevant to a proposed scientific definition of morality.  If we can define it physically, then we can do all kinds of wonderful stuff....  REMEMBER, it's not valid unless we can have reasonably high certainty...

 

But, are you really looking for a scientific definition... if you already know the answer you want?

 

In the 'Suspension of Disbelief' thread you replied to Weezer, saying...  "That's right W, I know the answer already...."

 

However, science doesn't work that way and scientists don't start with the answer they want and then interpret the evidence to fit with their wishes.

 

So, Endgarcito3 are you really looking a proper scientific definition of morality?

 

Or do you want to find something that you will interpret as supporting your Christian faith?

 

If it's the former, then you need to follow the rules and avoid the subjective, the personal and the supernatural.

 

But if its the latter, then you aren't really looking for a proper scientific definition of morality at all.

 

You're just looking for something to validate your Christian faith.

 

Your call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

19 minutes ago, WalterP said:

So, Endgarcito3 are you really looking a proper scientific definition of morality?

 

Or do you want to find something that you will interpret as supporting your Christian faith?

 

 

Oooh ooh! Raises my hand...I know the answer to that one!!!! 

[disillusioned]

I don't know what exactly is going on in this thread,  but I was planning on turning to the subject of morality in the Truth,  Knowledge,  and Belief thread in the near future. Just as soon as my schedule allows.

 

I actually do think it's important to be able to give a coherent account of morality aside from Christianity/religion. This is an area where I think a lot of atheists end up essentially ducking the question. I hope to be able to avoid doing that. Time will tell.

[Edgarcito]

9 hours ago, TEG said:

 

It takes two to argue!  Just curious; do you guys answer crank calls and talk to telemarketers?  Or answer spam e-mail?

If we were closer in proximity, I'd buy the beer.  The Prof is a good dude....we argue for sport.