Jump to content
cb1500

Please help me.

Recommended Posts

Consider that the roots of debilitating anxiety often runs deeper than just religious teaching, and happens before you were old enough to understand religious concepts.  Did you feel safe, secure and accepted by family as a child?  Was there any kind of "trauma" (or drama) going on in the family?  Sometimes the fear we are aware of is not at the root of severe anxiety.  

 

But, if family also had extreme religious fears, it could have been conditioned into you.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Weezer said:

Consider that the roots of debilitating anxiety often runs deeper than just religious teaching, and happens before you were old enough to understand religious concepts.  Did you feel safe, secure and accepted by family as a child?  Was there any kind of "trauma" (or drama) going on in the family?  Sometimes the fear we are aware of is not at the root of severe anxiety.  

 

But, if family also had extreme religious fears, it could have been conditioned into you.

 

I remember being very shy and anxious as a kid for no particular reason.  Lots of things bothered me and freaked me out.  I also remember having a lot of obsessive compulsive type of issues.  Everything had to be done a certain way, or I'd be thinking about it for a week.  Most people around me thought it was silly.  These days, I still constantly second guess everything I do, whether it be the wording of a text message I'm about to send, or buying the right part for a car.  There's got to be some kind of chemical imbalance going on.  I think the shyness may just be part of my personality.       

 

As far as drama is concerned, there was definitely some drama from my mom.  She had a tendency to overreact to things.  Other than that, I've always felt very comfortable around my parents.  They've always been very loving and supportive, and they were never really strict.  My dad takes religion with a grain of salt.  My mom, on the other hand, is  more religious, and made me go to church and religious schools.

 

The first time I heard the Adam and Eve story in kindergarten, it was honestly quite scary to me.  I couldn't understand why we were being punished so severely because someone ate an apple.  The idea of hell was extremely wrong and worrisome to me, even as a kid.  There was a period of time when I felt it was necessary to carry a bunch of religious books and junk around with me when I was in grade school.  That was part of that obsessive compulsive issue that I mentioned.  

 

I hope this all makes sense.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cb1500 said:

I still constantly second guess everything I do, whether it be the wording of a text message I'm about to send, or buying the right part for a car. 

 

HA!  I can partially identify with you on that.  It takes me months to decide which car to buy when it's car trading time.  It is extremely important to make the right decision,  or get things "just right",  and that carries over to life in general.  A lot of us have some of those obsessive compulsive traits.  It doesnt bother me as much as it does my wife!

 

Sometimes anxiety arises out of a very early fear of abandonment, or severe punishment.  If i dont please mommy, she might leave me, or beat me.  With my father, who was beaten as a child when his father got mad at him, when he got older, the fear was transferred to  God sending him to Hell if he didn't please him.  I don't think he ever saw the connection.   

 

That is an extreme example, and often the reason for the fear is never known.  And remember that children perceive things differently.   The parent may have never done anything to scare the child, at least consciously,  but that was the way the child perceived it, and "conditioning" happened.  And children sitting through years of "Hell fire and brimstone" preaching also get conditioned.   If you get Into therapy you might explore some of that, but first see if a Doc recommends some medication.   

 

I notice your interests in automotive/mechanical stuff.  I was a car nut for years.  Always wanted to know how things worked----including people----and religion.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, cb1500 said:

 

  I couldn't understand why we were being punished so severely because someone ate an apple. 

 

 

You were an objective thinker in kindergarten!   

 

The story I first remember really bothering me was the story of Job.  And I think I was a few years older.   Why would a loving father let Satan torture his child, Just to make a point? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Weezer said:

The parent may have never done anything to scare the child, at least consciously,  but that was the way the child perceived it, and "conditioning" happened.  And children sitting through years of "Hell fire and brimstone" preaching also get conditioned.   If you get Into therapy you might explore some of that, but first see if a Doc recommends some medication.   

The way my teachers would go back and forth between saying "god loves you" and then mention the punishment of hell was extremely confusing, and probably traumatizing.  Also, being reminded a million times of how "unclean" we are by teachers and pastors did quite a bit of damage to me.  I'm hoping the medication gets rid of the intrusive thoughts.  The last couple of days have been a little better at least.        

20 hours ago, Weezer said:

The story I first remember really bothering me was the story of Job.  And I think I was a few years older.   Why would a loving father let Satan torture his child, Just to make a point? 

 

Exactly.  There's nothing loving about it.  I remember feeling pretty disturbed when my religious teachers would try to justify what happened in that story. 

 

20 hours ago, Weezer said:

I notice your interests in automotive/mechanical stuff.  I was a car nut for years.  Always wanted to know how things worked----including people----and religion.

  

Yeah, my mechanical interest started with lawnmowers at a very young age.

 

I remember a time when I was trying to figure out how a certain type of automatic transmission works, and I absolutely couldn't fall asleep until I understood it completely.  That's part of my problem I guess, not knowing something bothers me way too much.  Honestly, messing around with cars and other mechanical stuff is probably what keeps me sane and distracted from other worries.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, cb1500 said:

  Honestly, messing around with cars and other mechanical stuff is probably what keeps me sane and distracted from other worries.  

Hi Cb. So glad you are here. You have received some very good, logical responses from the gang. We are so lucky to have this site. This site saved my sanity. It still does even after all these years.

 

One thing that has happened to me in the last 10 years is that I faced my own anxieties and depression. Mine started in childhood with a mother and father who constantly fought. (I have since forgiven my parents and understand they were doing the best they could) But it still affected me. It was only natural to ''turn to jesus'' at a young age because I thought I had finally found safety. After a few years in the cult, I dropped out because I did not feel that I was good enough in the church (or safe anymore)  and drank and partied quite heavily for 8 years until I knew I was in trouble and went back to the church again (thinking the devil had tricked me into backsliding) for more emotional abuse including listening to the preaching on the doctrine of hell. Most of my life I have made (very bad) decisions based on anxiety. So you are not alone. I am now just facing a lot of fears through exposure therapy. 

 

I was like most of you. I was a critical thinker who allowed myself to be brainwashed by what seemed to be logical suggestions from people who i looked up to. As much as I questioned many things, I was a highly suggestible person and wanted approval from everyone including god. I always thought that I would not 'make the mark' and end up in hell. That's when I joined this site and have found much relief in the last years.

 

Whenever I need relief from the fear of hell, I turn to the ridiculous book of Genesis and read it with intensity. The whole book is crazy. The book shows me that this is all ''man imagined''. The very first question I had for my pastor was, ''If there was only adam and eve and god in this garden, WHO stood outside the gates and was the stenographer who wrote the whole account all down??'' Who saw this happen?? They can't find the author of this book.  My pastor could not answer me and just told me to have faith.    Read the first 3 chapters and tell me you think this was an intelligent god who set the earth up? The 'power' that had all power told his first creation to go find an animal for a companion before he decided that a woman would be a better idea? Really??  There are talking donkeys and snakes in the book. The man is made from dust. The woman was made from the mans' rib. Study this book. You will find that you were not born in sin at all and never have needed a 'savior' to save you at all. Please do some studying on the first book of the bible. That's where they start to preach from (sinner from the very beginning because of 2 people)  so as soon as you can see the craziness of this book, you can start to relax a little. Here's a little something to read to start you off. https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/abs_list.html

 

Best of luck. Keep coming back. I just went back to work a while ago because I decided it was good for me to work until I die. It's a great distraction for my anxiety. Too much time for me to 'think' is sometimes not good for people who suffer from anxiety. Big (hug) 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Margee said:

 The very first question I had for my pastor was, ''If there was only adam and eve and god in this garden, WHO stood outside the gates and was the stenographer who wrote the whole account all down??'' Who saw this happen?? They can't find the author of this book.  My pastor could not answer me........

 

HA!  Excelent observation.  I had never heard that questioned.  It seems there is no end to the ridiculous things, especially in the old testament.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Margee said:

Whenever I need relief from the fear of hell, I turn to the ridiculous book of Genesis and read it with intensity. The whole book is crazy. The book shows me that this is all ''man imagined''. The very first question I had for my pastor was, ''If there was only adam and eve and god in this garden, WHO stood outside the gates and was the stenographer who wrote the whole account all down??'' Who saw this happen?? They can't find the author of this book.  My pastor could not answer me and just told me to have faith.    Read the first 3 chapters and tell me you think this was an intelligent god who set the earth up? The 'power' that had all power told his first creation to go find an animal for a companion before he decided that a woman would be a better idea? Really??  There are talking donkeys and snakes in the book. The man is made from dust. The woman was made from the mans' rib. Study this book. You will find that you were not born in sin at all and never have needed a 'savior' to save you at all. Please do some studying on the first book of the bible. That's where they start to preach from (sinner from the very beginning because of 2 people)  so as soon as you can see the craziness of this book, you can start to relax a little.

 

I was actually thinking about genesis yesterday.  It certainly is comforting to realize that the entire bible falls apart without genesis and "original sin" being valid.  

 

13 hours ago, Margee said:

Best of luck. Keep coming back.  I just went back to work a while ago because I decided it was good for me to work until I die. It's a great distraction for my anxiety. Too much time for me to 'think' is sometimes not good for people who suffer from anxiety.  Big (hug)

 

This is a big part of my issue right now.  My job involves landscaping and snow removal (I love being outside), and business has been really slow lately.  That is giving me way too much time to think about this kind of stuff.  Friends haven't been around, and there just isn't much going on right now. 

 

Thanks, I will definitely keep coming back.  Nothing worse than feeling alone, and I really appreciate these replies.     

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2019 at 7:34 AM, Margee said:

Whenever I need relief from the fear of hell, I turn to the ridiculous book of Genesis and read it with intensity. The whole book is crazy. The book shows me that this is all ''man imagined''.

 

That's my definition of "religion": Speculation about what a god might be like, if there were such things as gods.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try thinking in logical terms when the issue on your mind is hell.  The Christian viewpoint is that one sin requires a person to burn in hell for eternity.  But the Savior, Jesus, came as a means of redemption so each person who believes in him and repents of sin will escape hell and go to heaven because belief in Jesus garners forgiveness of sin.
 

Begin with that.  So a person born in the Amazon jungle and who never heard of Jesus and thus could not profess belief in him must go to hell because of the circumstances of his or her birth?  Does that make sense?  Of course it doesn’t.

 

Another anomaly.  Suppose there is a good person who helps the poor, assists children in need, and does any number of good deeds in his or her life.  However, this person does not believe in Jesus.  One day he or she sees another person whom he or she finds sexually attractive and in his or her heart he or she lusts after that person.  According to Matthew 5:28, the one who lusted committed the sin of adultery.  Immediately after this lustful episode, the person crosses the street, is hit by a car, and dies.  Does this otherwise good person go to hell just because he or she was human enough to find another person sexually attractive?  That’s ridiculous.

 

My point is that if we mere humans can point out these absurdities, then it proves that all of the talk of hell is of human, not divine, origin.  An Omniscient god would be perfect in his proclamations and we mere humans would not be able to find the logical fallacies.

 

Hell is not real.  The concept is of human origin as proven by the fact that we can see the lack of logic in the concept.

 

Rest your mind.  Hell is falsehood.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Overcame Faith said:

Try thinking in logical terms when the issue on your mind is hell.  The Christian viewpoint is that one sin requires a person to burn in hell for eternity.  But the Savior, Jesus, came as a means of redemption so each person who believes in him and repents of sin will escape hell and go to heaven because belief in Jesus garners forgiveness of sin.
 

Begin with that.  So a person born in the Amazon jungle and who never heard of Jesus and thus could not profess belief in him must go to hell because of the circumstances of his or her birth?  Does that make sense?  Of course it doesn’t.

 

Another anomaly.  Suppose there is a good person who helps the poor, assists children in need, and does any number of good deeds in his or her life.  However, this person does not believe in Jesus.  One day he or she sees another person whom he or she finds sexually attractive and in his or her heart he or she lusts after that person.  According to Matthew 5:28, the one who lusted committed the sin of adultery.  Immediately after this lustful episode, the person crosses the street, is hit by a car, and dies.  Does this otherwise good person go to hell just because he or she was human enough to find another person sexually attractive?  That’s ridiculous.

 

My point is that if we mere humans can point out these absurdities, then it proves that all of the talk of hell is of human, not divine, origin.  An Omniscient god would be perfect in his proclamations and we mere humans would not be able to find the logical fallacies.

 

Hell is not real.  The concept is of human origin as proven by the fact that we can see the lack of logic in the concept.

 

Rest your mind.  Hell is falsehood.

I got into deep doubt about christianity or the version I was served because of Hell. The God image of my church seems like a manipulating narcissist , a projection of a ruthless psychopathic tribal chieftain to me. If there such a reality or being as God I refuse to thing he is a cosmic bully hell bent on power in that way.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

I got into deep doubt about christianity or the version I was served because of Hell. The God image of my church seems like a manipulating narcissist , a projection of a ruthless psychopathic tribal chieftain to me. If there such a reality or being as God I refuse to thing he is a cosmic bully hell bent on power in that way.


Promoting the concept of hell as something real is one of the most cruel things one person can do to another.  Once I firmly realized that hell is a manipulative lie, I felt a real sense of freedom.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the new replies.  I was feeling a bit better for a while after the holidays, but the anxiety came back strong over the last week.    Next Monday, I'm going to a Recovering From Religion group meetup ( which I'm nervous about since I've never been to anything like that), and my doctors appointment is a little over a week a way.  I'm so sick of feeling like this and having two conflicting "voices" in my head.    

 

2 hours ago, Overcame Faith said:

Promoting the concept of hell as something real is one of the most cruel things one person can do to another.  Once I firmly realized that hell is a manipulative lie, I felt a real sense of freedom.

Agree 100%.  I wouldn't be going through any of this If I wouldn't been taught that garbage to begin with.  

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, cb1500 said:

Thanks for the new replies.  I was feeling a bit better for a while after the holidays, but the anxiety came back strong over the last week.    Next Monday, I'm going to a Recovering From Religion group meetup ( which I'm nervous about since I've never been to anything like that), and my doctors appointment is a little over a week a way.  I'm so sick of feeling like this and having two conflicting "voices" in my head.    

   

It can be tough when you have a rational self competing with an emotional self. I don't know if there is a magic wand that can wave away that conflict, but I have found that fact-based education is of major importance. The more reality-based knowledge one has, the less power the emotional self has to interfere.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to hear you have group sessions and a doctor’s appointment in the works.  You can get past all this!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Overcame Faith said:

Glad to hear you have group sessions and a doctor’s appointment in the works.  You can get past all this!

 

2 hours ago, cb1500 said:

 

Next Monday, I'm going to a Recovering From Religion group meetup.

 

Let us know how that works out.  I have thought about doing some volunteer work with them, but would like to hear from some of their customers before making application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Overcame Faith said:

Glad to hear you have group sessions and a doctor’s appointment in the works.  You can get past all this!

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

 

Let us know how that works out.  I have thought about doing some volunteer work with them, but would like to hear from some of their customers before making application.

I will certainly let all of you know how it goes.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By way of education. Steve Hassan , Janja Lalich and especially Gillie Jenkinson. All other cult related experts too. They all talk about some kind of pseudo identity and phobia indoctrination as well as advice to cure. Sorry if I repeat myself. 

 

By the way there is a lot of similiraties between this and relationshop with a controlling abuser. It matters less if the God image was or not real, YOU believed he was real, so some aftermath is similar to other kinds of controlling relationships. 

 

One example of ancient fear indoctrination. Aztrcs thought that if they stopped sacrificing ppl the sun would stop moving. Many moder day orthodox think that stopping performibg the lithurgy aka the symbolic human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism, the devil will come and the end of the world will begin. And OCD patients feel that if they will not wash their habds 8 times in the morning something bad will happen. Just saying, things DO LOOK awfully similar.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/22/2020 at 4:33 PM, Myrkhoos said:

I got into deep doubt about christianity or the version I was served because of Hell. The God image of my church seems like a manipulating narcissist , a projection of a ruthless psychopathic tribal chieftain to me. If there such a reality or being as God I refuse to thing he is a cosmic bully hell bent on power in that way.

 

Alan Watts lectured on this. If you look very closely, you'll notice that the entire biblical drama is based on the very human concept of monarchy. A king on high, lowly servants beneath. Angels, like court personalities with various authority in between. We no longer (in most places) live in an outdated system of monarchy.  But christians are stuck with the biblical text which is ball and chained to the old concepts. And the various other human concepts from bronze age periods, such as slavery, polygamy, mass genocide, and so on and so forth. It's tribal in a lot of ways too.

 

If their human concept of god were true, then what else could it be aside from a very human-like, emotional, cosmic bully? Not so much a supreme, supernatural entity above and beyond all human concepts. But a glorified and elevated version of a jealous and hateful human ego, with a side order of love sprinkled in. And with a very thin line between love and hate to boot!

 

And if there were a god which is something other than that, well, then that would mean that they have it all wrong and their god isn't anything more than a mistaken representation of something else entirely. Let's say a pantheistic god. That would be completely different than the monotheistic god projected as out there, other than ourselves, and beyond the universe or beyond anything else. It would be any and everything. And that would therefore make total nonsense of the bible, christianity, heaven and hell, and so on. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Alan Watts lectured on this. If you look very closely, you'll notice that the entire biblical drama is based on the very human concept of monarchy. A king on high, lowly servants beneath. Angels, like court personalities with various authority in between. We no longer (in most places) live in an outdated system of monarchy.  But christians are stuck with the biblical text which is ball and chained to the old concepts. And the various other human concepts from bronze age periods, such as slavery, polygamy, mass genocide, and so on and so forth. It's tribal in a lot of ways too.

 

If their human concept of god were true, then what else could it be aside from a very human-like, emotional, cosmic bully? Not so much a supreme, supernatural entity above and beyond all human concepts. But a glorified and elevated version of a jealous and hateful human ego, with a side order of love sprinkled in. And with a very thin line between love and hate to boot!

 

And if there were a god which is something other than that, well, then that would mean that they have it all wrong and their god isn't anything more than a mistaken representation of something else entirely. Let's say a pantheistic god. That would be completely different than the monotheistic god projected as out there, other than ourselves, and beyond the universe or beyond anything else. It would be any and everything. And that would therefore make total nonsense of the bible, christianity, heaven and hell, and so on. 

It is very interesting on that note how certaib mustics try to "see " the more pantheistic God in the Bible. A lot of mental gymnastics were and are necesary. But christianity just seems to me - i am not an expert - like a soup of very different ideas which do not really belong together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

It is very interesting on that note how certaib mustics try to "see " the more pantheistic God in the Bible. A lot of mental gymnastics were and are necesary. But christianity just seems to me - i am not an expert - like a soup of very different ideas which do not really belong together.

 

I guess you meant to write that certain mystics try to see a pantheistic god in the bible. Mental gymnastics is right. It doesn't work out because every non-pantheistic idea is contradicted in the process, which, amounts to a load of contradictions. I god who is supposed to be everywhere, but at the same time is portrayed as not everywhere. And at some point you'd think they'd eventually wonder themselves, "what's the use?" And just admit that it's self contradicting. 

 

We got into this with our token apologist, End-garcito recently. He's still struggling to put it all together in his own mind. But realizes that pantheism must tie in somewhere. Must tie in to an "omnipresent" god. But then tends to shut down and lose focus when the self contradictions reveal themselves. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

 But christianity just seems to me - i am not an expert - like a soup of very different ideas which do not really belong together.

👍👍

How true!  Kind of like schizophrenia. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My group meetup for Recovering from Religion is tomorrow, but I'm just feeling really crappy tonight.  I'm extremely terrified about the blasphemy thing again and just feel stuck and hopeless.  I don't really know what to say or why I'm posting this, but I'm honestly ready to just break down crying.  I nearly passed out last night from a panic attack.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, cb1500 said:

My group meetup for Recovering from Religion is tomorrow, but I'm just feeling really crappy tonight.  I'm extremely terrified about the blasphemy thing again and just feel stuck and hopeless.  I don't really know what to say or why I'm posting this, but I'm honestly ready to just break down crying.  I nearly passed out last night from a panic attack.  


So sorry you are feeling such angst.  The truth is that “blasphemy” is like “hell” in that neither exists.  Try and get your mind off of such things and onto the excitement of meeting a group whom you understand and who understand you because all of you have been through the religious-related problems.  You just might help some of those people and some of them just might help you to cope, too.

 

Drop the thoughts of the non-existent so-called sin of blasphemy, and turn them to how exciting that meeting will be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Overcame Faith said:


So sorry you are feeling such angst.  The truth is that “blasphemy” is like “hell” in that neither exists.  Try and get your mind off of such things and onto the excitement of meeting a group whom you understand and who understand you because all of you have been through the religious-related problems.  You just might help some of those people and some of them just might help you to cope, too.

 

Drop the thoughts of the non-existent so-called sin of blasphemy, and turn them to how exciting that meeting will be.

 

I'm trying so hard to stop thinking about it, and I'm going to start surrounding myself with as many like minded people as possible.  I just joined another atheist/freethinker meetup group that's local to me.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.