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Aqualung

Just de-converted and it feels so wonderful!

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40 minutes ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

That's an excellent Idea. Thanks I'll post it there.

If you have any trouble, just let us know!

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1 hour ago, Margee said:

If you have any trouble, just let us know!

I'm unable to post in that section. Do I need to be granted permission? Thanks.

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9 minutes ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

I'm unable to post in that section. Do I need to be granted permission? Thanks.

Yes. Try now.

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I too cannot respond to any posts that are already in that section!

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11 minutes ago, Karna said:

I too cannot respond to any posts that are already in that section!

@Karna, give me a few minutes. I'll  get you in.

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3 minutes ago, Margee said:

@Karna, give me a few minutes. I'll  get you in.

Try now @Karna.

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Congratulations and welcome!

 

And I must confess, I've always wanted to try Ayahuasca.

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From what I know ayahuasca - there is ahuge scandal in my country about an ex high status secret service guy caught with it by the way - is a hallucinogenic. It is probably pretty interesting. There is a growing field of research on it . I got interested in it by some trauma recovery experts talking. I do not know what you mean by spiritual. I would doubt any type of meeting with a god while under the influence however :) although it could be therapeutic. Gabor Mate seems like a supporter of it.

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I just posted it in the Secular Spirituality via pyschedelics thread. 

Sorry it took me so long but I had to think long and hard about how I was going to say it.

Check it out I hope you like it!

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I have been an exChristian for several years. At first, I was looking for answers during Bible study. Things just didn't add up no matter what angle I used. And then I came to the ultimate decision that it was all bull, lies, misdirected love, take your pick. I made the decision not based on emotion, but intellectually. Religion uses emotion to hook and keep converts. But I had made a decision based on rational, intelligent facts. What came next was emotional. 

The very first emotion I had was grief. I mourned the loss of a God, Savior, that I had loved and would have died for but did not exist. Then I became angry that I had been lied to since birth. I kept my feelings to myself for a while, knowing that if I told any of my family I would be shunned. To tell you the truth, I am a little afraid of telling the wrong person. Being a Christian for so long I knew that sometimes violence was God's will. And even though you're supposed to witness to heathens, I know from experience that whole groups of people are written off-like the Chinese, for instance. The vast number are Buddhist, and we know they will end up in hell, they say.  This idea and many others are under the surface. I mean if you ask a Christian about abortion clinic bombings, most would condemn them. But deep down you're applauding the bombers, saving so many of God's little angels. It is this frame of mind that has kept me quiet. I did tell my 2 daughters. So what do I do now? I feel it is no use to try and deconvert someone, because they have to be in the "something's not right" phase. Otherwise they will not talk to you and eventually keep away from you (not be yoked to a unbeliever, you know.) 

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So Sunday I told my dad about my de-conversion and he took it rather harshly. 

 

First he asked me why.

So I told him about all the doubts i've always had, The new research I had been doing, and all the contradictory bullshit in the bible.

To no avail.

I then asked him how a loving god could ever send his people to hell for any reason, Let alone such a stupid one as not believing in him.

Then he tells me nobody sends you anywhere, You make the choice.

So I tell him that's blackmail and give him this example.

 

So if I put a gun to your head and say give me all your money and you refuse, Then it isn't my fault I shot you, It was your choice.

You could have given me your money and lived but you chose not to.

 

He dissmissed this entirley

 

He then said I can see why you would choose this path seeing as how you weren't brought up properly.

So now he's blaming himself for not indoctrinating me enough.

 

I told him mom did a fine job of that on her own, And it worked for a time, But now I have seen through all those lies.

 

He then told me I was being driven away from god by the temtations of the devil.

 

I told him there is no god or devil it's all a bullshit fairytale.

 

He just couldn't accept it.

 

At the end he told me I would return to the faith.

I told him don't count on it.

 

So the next day I call him and he says he didn't sleep very well and his blood pressure is through the roof.

 

He tried to blame it on everything else, The food he ate, The beer he drank, All the other stress he has been under lately.

 

I told him he's just lying to both of us, And we both know it was the bombshell I dropped on him.

 

So now I feel guilty about giving him all that grief, But it had to be done. I can't lie about who I am.

 

I dread the thought of telling the rest of my family, But everyone will have to know eventually.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

So Sunday I told my dad about my de-conversion and he took it rather harshly. 

 

First he asked me why.

So I told him about all the doubts i've always had, The new research I had been doing, and all the contradictory bullshit in the bible.

To no avail.

I then asked him how a loving god could ever send his people to hell for any reason, Let alone such a stupid one as not believing in him.

Then he tells me nobody sends you anywhere, You make the choice.

So I tell him that's blackmail and give him this example.

 

So if I put a gun to your head and say give me all your money and you refuse, Then it isn't my fault I shot you, It was your choice.

You could have given me your money and lived but you chose not to.

 

He dissmissed this entirley

 

He then said I can see why you would choose this path seeing as how you weren't brought up properly.

So now he's blaming himself for not indoctrinating me enough.

 

I told him mom did a fine job of that on her own, And it worked for a time, But now I have seen through all those lies.

 

He then told me I was being driven away from god by the temtations of the devil.

 

I told him there is no god or devil it's all a bullshit fairytale.

 

He just couldn't accept it.

 

At the end he told me I would return to the faith.

I told him don't count on it.

 

So the next day I call him and he says he didn't sleep very well and his blood pressure is through the roof.

 

He tried to blame it on everything else, The food he ate, The beer he drank, All the other stress he has been under lately.

 

I told him he's just lying to both of us, And we both know it was the bombshell I dropped on him.

 

So now I feel guilty about giving him all that grief, But it had to be done. I can't lie about who I am.

 

I dread the thought of telling the rest of my family, But everyone will have to know eventually.

 

 

Congrats, and give him time to make the adjustment. I've found it's utterly pointless to give my reasons to family who are indoctrinated - at it's worst it just causes a lot of pain for everyone. I had people in my family who treated me as if I'd become the most immoral person around, so that may happen as well. It gets easier with time but it changes things for sure. 

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1 hour ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

 

So now I feel guilty about giving him all that grief, But it had to be done. I can't lie about who I am.

 

 

Your father and mine were cut from the same mold.   I thought he would be sad, but he got so mad he turned red in the face and I thought he was going to hit me.  He looked at me a few seconds and said,  "there is no more hope for you!" 

 

Do you think it would best to go to the rest of the family and tell them, or wait until they ask?  For the sake of family relations I would keep it as low key as possible.  Staying calm and self assured will send a powerful message.  But that is just my thinking, and you know your family best.

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8 hours ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

 

 

 

 

So now I feel guilty about giving him all that grief, But it had to be done. I can't lie about who I am.

 

 

 

 

So sorry it didn't go over very well AP. And this is what family (or friends) will do when you tell them something you know isn't going to go well. People like to make others feel guilty. It's part of wanting for them to stay in control and to control YOU. Even when you call somebody out on their own bullshit, you will get defensive answers as to why they did what they did (or believe what they believe) and they will normally blame everything around them except themselves. People ''pass the buck'' all the time. It's passive aggressive behavior and it will produce guilt in you if you accept it. Especially when you are trying to tell someone that you are not a believer anymore. I wouldn't say too much more to any of them. Go quiet for awhile. And be peaceful to know that you stood up for yourself!! Every time you stand up for yourself, it becomes easier. Just remain loving and kind and show them YOU are in control now!!  Keep us posted. (hug)

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Margee is right. If you don't accept the guilt, there is nothing more they can do. Their feelings are not your responsibility.

 

You might do a net search for "assertive rights." There are several versions out there but the gist of it is that you have the right to your feelings and actions and you are not responsible for others. And you do not have to offer reasons, excuses or explanations. You have the right to be your own person and to be happy.

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4 hours ago, Margee said:

 

 Keep us posted. (hug)

 

Dang, do you go around hugging everyone?  😆

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You did not give him grief, his religious views did. If a man has a bad stomach and he feels a food is harming him, it is not the food it is his digestive system.  I know, I had my fair of digestive issues.  But he does want to heal his stomach just avoid eating.

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8 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

You did not give him grief, his religious views did. If a man has a bad stomach and he feels a food is harming him, it is not the food it is his digestive system.  I know, I had my fair of digestive issues.  But he does want to heal his stomach just avoid eating.

^^this is important. That's essentially what I pointed out when I "came out" to my parents - that it wasn't me causing them pain, it was their beliefs, and I was not responsible for those or for their emotional reactions. 

People will try to lay the blame for their hurt on you. Have none of it. 

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15 hours ago, Margee said:

So sorry it didn't go over very well AP. And this is what family (or friends) will do when you tell them something you know isn't going to go well. People like to make others feel guilty. It's part of wanting for them to stay in control and to control YOU. Even when you call somebody out on their own bullshit, you will get defensive answers as to why they did what they did (or believe what they believe) and they will normally blame everything around them except themselves. People ''pass the buck'' all the time. It's passive aggressive behavior and it will produce guilt in you if you accept it. Especially when you are trying to tell someone that you are not a believer anymore. I wouldn't say too much more to any of them. Go quiet for awhile. And be peaceful to know that you stood up for yourself!! Every time you stand up for yourself, it becomes easier. Just remain loving and kind and show them YOU are in control now!!  Keep us posted. (hug)

Thank you Margie! (hug) 

I'll try hard to not accept the guilt from now on, And i'll try not to be too vocal for the time being, Even though I really feel the urge to let everyone know.

 

So I talked to him on the phone again last night, And he asked if I was still visting that ex-christian website, To which I answer yes.

 

He then comes up with some batshit crazy conspiracy theory about how ex-christian must be some evil plot by the Russians to lead America's youth astray.

 

I would have laughed at him if he hadn't been so pissed.

 

And then he kept going off about moral values and how we need religion to tell us right from wrong.

To which I tried explaining to him that I don't need to believe in a book of fairytales to know right from wrong.

 

He then said something that suprised me, He said well, Maybe it is all a fairytale, But we still need the faith and morals.

 

Hmmm progress perhaps?

 

 

 

 

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Hi and welcome, Tim...its tough at first when family don't want to accept your new path...but don't give in, whatever you do. They will adjust, and so will you. Many of us here have been through that same ordeal.

And what the hell is ayahuasca? (sorry for the dumb question lol)

21 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

Edit...sorry, Weezer...It wasn't my intention to quote you, just couldn't figure out how to delete the quote box. (Not that your post wasn't valid :) ).In my defense, I just hit my 50's a couple weeks ago...hands are starting to get shaky lol

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1 hour ago, Derek said:

Hi and welcome, Tim...its tough at first when family don't want to accept your new path...but don't give in, whatever you do. They will adjust, and so will you. Many of us here have been through that same ordeal.

And what the hell is ayahuasca? (sorry for the dumb question lol)

Edit...sorry, Weezer...It wasn't my intention to quote you, just couldn't figure out how to delete the quote box. (Not that your post wasn't valid :) ).In my defense, I just hit my 50's a couple weeks ago...hands are starting to get shaky lol

Hi Derek! Thanks for the welcome, it's great to be here!

 

Ayahuasca is an ancient plant medicine from the amazon, It's a hallucinogen somewhat like Peyote and Psilocybin mushrooms, But is very different and much more powerful.

 

I posted about my expirience with it in this thread.

There's also this video which explains it all very well, Hope you enjoy :)

 

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9 hours ago, Derek said:

 

Edit...sorry, Weezer...It wasn't my intention to quote you, just couldn't figure out how to delete the quote box. (Not that your post wasn't valid :) ).In my defense, I just hit my 50's a couple weeks ago...hands are starting to get shaky lol

 

LOL, I totally understand.   I did the same thing a few weeks ago.

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10 hours ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

He then comes up with some batshit crazy conspiracy theory about how ex-christian must be some evil plot by the Russians to lead America's youth astray.

Dang! We've been exposed! (It's Hillary.)

 

10 hours ago, AyahuascaPhoenix said:

And then he kept going off about moral values and how we need religion to tell us right from wrong.

Boy, there is a lot that could be said in response to this, although it's best not to.

- How about Numbers 31 where God tells Moses to have his men kill all the Midianites including the women and children but keep the virgin girls for themselves?

- How about Exodus 21, which comes right after the Ten Comandments, where it gives guidelines for keeping slaves and selling your daughter, and says that if you beat your slave and he or she lives for a couple of days before dying you're not responsible for the death?

- How about Deuteronomy 22 where it says that if a woman is raped in the city she should be put to death because she didn't yell loud enough?

 

And, of course, we could fill up this site with examples spanning the entire history of Christianity that lead to major human rights violations . (Ah.... but those folks — all of them — were not True Christians™.)

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