TruthSeeker0 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, dozer said: I was going to ask that question. Are you ex Christians happy? Don't you miss having faith? Hell no, now I am happy. I was miserable as a fundamentalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruthSeeker0 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, dozer said: This might be my only thread on here. Is that too claustrophobic? But on the topic of "losers' and God. Look at AA. People's get out of control and end up in a place like Alcoholics Anonymous. they need to surrender, who are they surrendering to? I would classify myself a loser. Failed career especially. I need God. because ive failed a lot in life. There is no one else to turn to. Who/what do ex Christians turn to when their life turns upside down? That's scary in my book. I have to go to work later today. A physical job. Ive got really bad sciatica which no one seems to be able to cure. I cant afford to miss work as I am casual. we will have to work overtime as well. I can barely stand up after an hour. I will have to hide that from the boss and coworkers somehow. I'm praying to God for help to get me through this. My wife has cancer as well which is getting more aggressive recently. Im not trying to attract pity here. Just showing a normal person going through their life. But when the chips are down, who can you turn to? Im turning to God. Because commonsense and 'evidence" based thinking don't cure everything. Don't address every problem in your life. In the end, we need prayer in my opinion that is. Stop using "we". You don't speak for others in this life, only yourself. I have a chronic pain condition. And chronic back pain. And it's so much easier to deal with without any god(s) in my life. Who can you turn to? Well that's where my statement about Darwin and survival of the fittest is relevant. Unless you have people and assistance to look out for you yes it can be a cruel world. Not all of us need religion to offer a false sense of comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 31, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, dozer said: Got any mystic moderators here. who can think outside the box? Well, I started thinking outside YOUR box years ago as I was studying the Bible at Moody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, florduh said: Well, I started thinking outside YOUR box years ago as I was studying the Bible at Moody. everyone is a mod here almost. that avatar kind of says it all eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenleaf Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 You don't like comparing god to dragons, well it bothers me when people compare god to real things. God is clearly fake, well the god of the bible is certainly not real. I am a pretty hard-line atheist, but even I won't say that it is impossible for A god to exist. But, I am 100% certain that the god of the bible does not exist. When someone tries to compare them to something real (like a parent, a judge, or anything else), it is troublesome. It shows that they lack the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality. It shows a troubling lack of interest in understanding what the bible actually says (or a lack of reasoning skills to connect the dots and spot the contradictions). We're a nice enough bunch here, but I think you'll find that we don't have to respect your delusions. We can respect the person without respecting their delusions... hey, it's like people saying they love the sinner and hate the sin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2020 47 minutes ago, dozer said: Ever heard of Pauline Hanson? Yeah, she a total bitch of a politician. (Personal opinion). But we can at least demonstrate she exists. Not entirely sure how that relates to God, holiness, or how my opinion of her impacts your ability to explain your understanding of God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2020 47 minutes ago, dozer said: I was going to ask that question. Are you ex Christians happy? Don't you miss having faith? Yes, happier than when I was as a Christian. No... it's kind of like asking a person who had a headache, don't you miss having the headache. 41 minutes ago, dozer said: Just by the way, my brother became Pentecostal. He is basically a fundamentalist who thinks we are all going to hell unless we get born again. He has embraced all the fundamentalist thinking. A few years a go he and I would have agreed then. 41 minutes ago, dozer said: I might like to think my version of Christianity is superior to his. because I am less rigid. But he is far more zealous than me. Being humble is the challenge for us all. The only thing that would make your version of Christianity superior is if it was true. Neither of you can demonstrate either version of Christianity is true, therefore neither is superior, but both are inferior to what is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 30 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: The only thing that would make your version of Christianity superior is if it was true. Neither of you can demonstrate either version of Christianity is true, therefore neither is superior, but both are inferior to what is true. We dont demonstrate. we just witness. though i need to improve in that area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, dozer said: I was going to ask that question. Are you ex Christians happy? Don't you miss having faith? I only joined the faith at age 30 because I married a Christian. I was raised agnostic/atheist without those terms being used. A divorce 10 years later, I stopped going to church and after a few half-assed attempts to go to a different church, I was left with some guilt and fear.. Roughly 2 years after divorce I gave up Jesus. Thought crime was an irritant to me. So no , I dont miss having faith. I do enjoy some pagan practice from time to time as well as Eastern thought, but I'm not interested in surrendering mental/emotional control to Gods, even if they 'are' real. A real superior god being doesnt need continual/eternal adulation. Only men desire that. If I'm God's creation, why would he give me the ability and motivation and desire to question his sovereignty and modus operandi? Seems counterproductive. I'm as happy as you, I suppose. Happy to wake up every day and deal with this that and the other thing. A bit happier than when I was saying "Sorry for using your name in vain...again, Jesus" or "Sorry I'm looking at porn again, Jesus." That's nonsense. I couldnt see doing that exercise for the rest of my life. My faith was short-lived and not systemic...I was not raised as a Christian so it was not as hard to make it go away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wertbag Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think the one thing that you need to remember is there are a couple of billion atheists and a couple billion Christians. In any group that large you will find the full range of humanity. There will be the angry/pleasant, rich/poor, stupid/intelligent and every variation in between. There is no standard atheist and no standard Christian. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 sorry guys i wont be able to respond to all of you. i feel like a counsellor dealing with traumatised ex Christians. who need to validate the decision they made to quit God. Im sensing a lot doubt and anxiety. Could you ever admit that though? In your last hour of life...maybe God does exist after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, midniterider said: I only joined the faith at age 30 because I married a Christian. I was raised agnostic/atheist without those terms being used. A divorce 10 years later, I stopped going to church and after a few half-assed attempts to go to a different church, I was left with some guilt and fear.. Roughly 2 years after divorce I gave up Jesus. Thought crime was an irritant to me. So no , I dont miss having faith. I do enjoy some pagan practice from time to time as well as Eastern thought, but I'm not interested in surrendering mental/emotional control to Gods, even if they 'are' real. A real superior god being doesnt need continual/eternal adulation. Only men desire that. If I'm God's creation, why would he give me the ability and motivation and desire to question his sovereignty and modus operandi? Seems counterproductive. I'm as happy as you, I suppose. Happy to wake up every day and deal with this that and the other thing. A bit happier than when I was saying "Sorry for using your name in vain...again, Jesus" or "Sorry I'm looking at porn again, Jesus." That's nonsense. I couldnt see doing that exercise for the rest of my life. My faith was short-lived and not systemic...I was not raised as a Christian so it was not as hard to make it go away. i like your post. that legalistic nonsense is nonsense I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 i was brought up in a loving Christian family. Religious education was a little legalistic and guilt forming. But overall I never gained a negative view of Christianity from childhood. Just grew dull in teenage years. Humour was very important. Dave Allen humour. We could laugh at ourselves. it was healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, dozer said: i feel like a counsellor dealing with traumatised ex Christians. who need to validate the decision they made to quit God. Im sensing a lot doubt and anxiety. ??? I have read through the comments on this thread. I don't see any ex-Christians signalling a lot of doubt and anxiety about their decision to quit God. In fact, I don't see them signalling any doubt and anxiety. Several have explicitly said that they are happier. No one has said the opposite. Where are you getting the "doubt and anxiety" from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, dozer said: sorry guys i wont be able to respond to all of you. i feel like a counsellor dealing with traumatised ex Christians. who need to validate the decision they made to quit God. Im sensing a lot doubt and anxiety. Could you ever admit that though? In your last hour of life...maybe God does exist after all. Annnnd he went there. Brick wall please. Thank you. That's ok. We feel like we are discussing fantasy with someone who can't tell the difference between imagination and reality. So yeah. Why is it always with the deathbed stuff? When humans are possibly the most alone and vulnerable, experiencing something they have never experienced before or will again that you decide that that's when god should show up? Why doesn't he show up now when I'm actually looking at the claims and evidence presented from believers? For me, there is no need to validate my decision to quit Christianity's imaginary fantasy nonsense. It's total bullshit, illogical, contradicts in places, doesn't agree with reality, and has no good evidence to support the claim. Now I'd like to know two things: 1) Why are you traumatised by my pet dragon? Is it because of your refusal to believe when you really know she exists? And 2) related to the above why do you have a problem with dragons when there are talking snakes and donkeys, and unicorns and dragons in the bible? I mean its the ultimate fantasy fling right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 31, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, ficino said: ??? I have read through the comments on this thread. I don't see any ex-Christians signalling a lot of doubt and anxiety about their decision to quit God. In fact, I don't see them signalling any doubt and anxiety. Several have explicitly said that they are happier. No one has said the opposite. Where are you getting the "doubt and anxiety" from? You have to have faith and imagine the anxiety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenleaf Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, dozer said: sorry guys i wont be able to respond to all of you. i feel like a counsellor dealing with traumatised ex Christians. who need to validate the decision they made to quit God. Im sensing a lot doubt and anxiety. Could you ever admit that though? In your last hour of life...maybe God does exist after all. LOL, you could not have misread the room more completely. No one is responding to you because they need to validate anything. And doubt and anxiety is a trait more common in believers than those who let their belief go. Some of us have faced death, of ourselves and of loved ones. The question of god's existence didn't even cross my mind. It's like worrying about santa claus being real when you find out your house is on fire. In those times of extreme duress, you don't focus on inane hypotheticals. You deal with the real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 humility . that is the test. the sure and certain Christian becomes the sure and certain atheist? Im not humble yet I know. Its more a goal than a reality. But when I read an arrogant post I sense that person is just as lost as they were before. but they dont know it yet. at least Christianity encourages humility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenleaf Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Humility? What are you on about now? This isn't about humility, it is about reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, fallenleaf said: , you don't focus on inane hypotheticals. You deal with the real. a pragmatist thinking is also limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, dozer said: humility . that is the test. the sure and certain Christian becomes the sure and certain atheist? Im not humble yet I know. Its more a goal than a reality. But when I read an arrogant post I sense that person is just as lost as they were before. but they dont know it yet. at least Christianity encourages humility Ok. It's not clear where you are hoping I and other ex-Christians will go with this. You are hoping that we will be shamed into renouncing atheism and will come back to faith? Lots of people on here freely admit what they do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, fallenleaf said: Humility? What are you on about now? This isn't about humility, it is about reality. you know . .when you dont pretend you know everything...a foreign concept to you i see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, ficino said: Ok. It's not clear where you are hoping I and other ex-Christians will go with this. You are hoping that we will be shamed into renouncing atheism and will come back to faith? Lots of people on here are free to admit what they do not know. i dont care where you go with it. Even Heaven is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenleaf Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, dozer said: you know . .when you dont pretend you know everything...a foreign concept to you i see I don't know everything, but there are things I do know. I know you are swimming outside your depth here. I know the god of the bible is a lie. I know that playing pretend doesn't fix real problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dozer Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, fallenleaf said: I don't know everything, but there are things I do know. I know you are swimming outside your depth here. I know the god of the bible is a lie. I know that playing pretend doesn't fix real problems. prayers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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