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midniterider

Fallacies used to discredit ex-Christians

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Excellent article. I think every one of those things have been said to me by people who learned the truth about me. I learned very early on that this was going to be a journey of frustration. And that was one of the reasons that I eventually decided to keep my lack of believing to myself. And no matter how i tried to explain myself back then, my friends would always tell me that god had a great calling on my life and that he would bring me back into the fold even though I was so doubting any of it anymore. (because of his grace of course!) My friends are always telling me that they are praying for me.

 

And somebody should be praying for me....gawd knows I need it!!! Lol

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The big issue with these how to respond list is that they think we must always "assume god" in all of our conversations with believers. 

 

By "assuming god" we automatically lose.  They automatically get to control the arguement.  They will always be able to come up with some sort of apologetics, or spin to support their beilef set against whatever we choose to present.

 

It is just not productive, nor worrh the effort.  Instead, make them justify their god concept to you....and shoot down the logical fallacies like ducks at an arcade when they send them your way.

 

Never ever cede the burden of proof for nothing in return.

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5 hours ago, Margee said:

Excellent article. I think every one of those things have been said to me by people who learned the truth about me. I learned very early on that this was going to be a journey of frustration. And that was one of the reasons that I eventually decided to keep my lack of believing to myself. And no matter how i tried to explain myself back then, my friends would always tell me that god had a great calling on my life and that he would bring me back into the fold even though I was so doubting any of it anymore. (because of his grace of course!) My friends are always telling me that they are praying for me.

 

And somebody should be praying for me....gawd knows I need it!!! Lol

 

"You're praying for me? Bullshit! Send me a video then. It better be at least an hour long."

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21 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

"You're praying for me? Bullshit! Send me a video then. It better be at least an hour long."

Well somebody has to?? I think your problem was that you really didn't know god. Not like me.  I had the real god. -_-

 

And besides I think you wanted to sin. You allowed Satan into your vessel and you didn't resist him. You need at least an hour of prayer. :poke:

 

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2 hours ago, ConsiderTheSource said:

It is just not productive, nor worrh the effort.  Instead, make them justify their god concept to you....and shoot down the logical fallacies like ducks at an arcade when they send them your way.

   

Like we did with Dozer in the recently locked "I'm still Christian" thread. He refused to answer the question and, in the end, won the troll-of-the-month award.

 

Note that many of the 13 fallacies in the article involve an overwhelming presumptuousness on the part of the Christians. They so often think they know what is going on in our minds. To them I would answer that to know what is in my mind is something that, if your god existed, only he could do. So for you to claim you know what's there is a form of pride, which is one of the seven deadly sins. So you need to fall down on your knees and pray for forgiveness for your presumptuousness.

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1 hour ago, Margee said:

Well somebody has to?? I think your problem was that you really didn't know god. Not like me.  I had the real god. -_-

 

And besides I think you wanted to sin. You allowed Satan into your vessel and you didn't resist him. You need at least an hour of prayer. :poke:

 

 

Sinning does seem more fun. 

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I have heard most of those, but I have long since given up caring what Christians want to say about me.  Dozer's greatest sin was being boring.  He did show some promise at the start, but he quicky gave up and just starting being a dumb troll.  I don't know what he really even counts as really discussing these issues with Christians.

 

The one benefit of these sorts of accusations, is knowing what sort of path to take when you are messing with someone trying to convert you.  Someone who thinks that I wanted to live in sin is going to require different sorts of poking than someone who thinks that I didn't really study the bible.  It is nearly impossible for you to avoid a someone making one of these assertions.  But, it is a self-defense mechanism.  Since we have rejected their beliefs, and their beliefs are true, then there must be something wrong with us. 

 

I will say, I was irrationally worried, when I was a young teen, about people accusing me of wanting to sin and please my flesh.  Even though I knew that wasn't why I didn't believe, it seemed like an easy way for them to dismiss my experience as real.  And, it was one of the harder ones to disprove and argue against.

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We argue over opinions all the time. In my country, especially, Christian belief of some kind is the default. When one comes to disagree with those beliefs it is not merely an opinion; it is a conclusion reached after much thought, study and introspection. Reaching such a conclusion comes with a price. Do not argue with my conclusion until you have the same facts and mental ability to make a judgment.

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15 hours ago, Margee said:

.... You allowed Satan into your vessel and you didn't resist him. ....

 

Well EXCUSE ME POLITELY (as my old dad used to say, and he was a fundamentaliust). Nobody gets into my vessel without an invitation.😉

 

Back to the article - excellent, rings so true. I knew all of the arguments, many have been said, or more commonly implied, to me. I don't give my old cronies any chance these days as I know they won't listen and may well get offended, which I don't want. I just want a quiet life, too.

 

In fact I have to face a new challenge this weekend. My partner has been diagnosed with an illness that requires extra support - which I want to fully give. This may mean that I have to sit with her in church which may be ok to a point because she sits for the whole service and that gives me permission to do the same! Nevertheless I am a bit fearful. At least it is a middle-of-the-road church (fundamentalists read: wishy washy, not really christian).

 

The pilgrimage of life as an ex-christian is interesting, isn't it?

 

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6 hours ago, nontheistpilgrim said:

 

The pilgrimage of life as an ex-christian is interesting, isn't it?

 

YEP!

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"6. You never studied hard enough to understand the truth of Biblical teachings"

 

They say the best way to make atheists is to get Christians to read their Bibles.

 

Of course, many Christians do study their Bibles. I certainly did -- but I studied it in order to fine-tune what I already believed. I studied it with certain beliefs imposed upon that study, the first being that it was 100% consistent from beginning to end. If you start with that requirement, then you have to explain away all of the ways the authors' beliefs evolved from beginning to end. You have to just dismiss certain things by saying "this is a difficult passage" then moving on in order to live with the cognitive dissonance.

 

But if you just read it (rather than doing some sort of directed study) you'll run across those same passages you thought were difficult and realize that in their context they're quite clear, and they say things that Christians don't believe.

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