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God's hiddenness

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I've been trying to find apologetics related to the issue of God's hiddenness. The issues come in a few forms, from "if god wants us to know Him and wants a personal relationship then He would have it. He could make that happen easily but does not." to "The bible says God is apparent to everyone, yet the majority of the world aren't Christians. How obvious is He when most people have no idea He exists?" It can be said the very fact atheists exist shows god does not. 


Especially if you have a hell doctrine where a lack of relationship would damn someone, then a loving god should be pushing His existence purely to save people from a cruel fate. If you could save someone from torture simply by saying Hi, why wouldn't you? 


The common apologetics include "God is obvious enough in creation" (the majority of the world doesn't agree), "God needs faith, knowledge removes faith" (are we saying those who met God are less than they would have been? Noah, Adam, Moses and the couple dozen bible characters who met God are worse off?) or the empty "God is mysterious" or "who can know the mind of God?" 

Someone even said "God can't talk to those who don't seek Him with an open heart" but that just seems to say Hes not all-powerful, cos its ridiculous to deny existence if He is speaking to you. 


This seems like one of the most fundamental questions, but I can't find any good reason for this hiddenness. 

Has anyone heard of a compelling apologetic for this? 

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The main one that said that god is obvious from nature was Paul, but he said that after a lifetime of indoctrination as a Pharisee, so his view was already forged in a strict school of religion. This is then used to beat-up non-believers by claiming that god is obvious from nature, but you've rejected him because you like sin. It's a bullshit argument made by those who already believe. Paul never bothered to say in what ways it was obvious. Paul said other stupid things like, "doesn't nature itself teach you that a man should not have long hair?" And then he harumphs and says "If anyone wants to be contentious, WE have no other practice and neither to the churches of God". Nature teaches exactly the opposite. Human hair grows long unless artificially cut. Among lions, males have long manes, females have short hair. 


God is also hidden to believers. None of them outside of the bible myths experience actual conversations that seem sane. They call it things like "the desert" "a dry time" "a time of testing" and other such malarkey to make it seem like normally He's right there chatting up believers and finding parking spots for them at Walmart. 


Peter also goes into a nearly racist rant against unbelievers calling them all kinds of names and saying they deserve the damnation they will get. This also paints a false picture of "knowing the truth, but rejecting it for sin". It's bullshit that is preached to other believers that makes them feel special and chosen "you shine like stars in the darkness of the world". 

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I found a bible study that touched on god speaking to people directly:


Bible Question:  To whom did God speak directly?

Bible Answer: 
God spoke directly to
-Cain (Gen 4:6)
-Noah (Gen 6:13-21, 7:1-4, 8:15-17)
-Noah and his sons (Gen 9:1-17)
-Job and his friends (Job 38:1-42:6)
-Abimelech (Gen 20:3-7)
-Isaac (Gen 26:24)
-Jacob (Gen 28:13-15, 35:1, 9-12 ... maybe 32:26-29)
-Joshua (Jos 6:2-5)
-Samuel (1Sa 3:4-14, 15:10, 16:7)
-David (1Sa 23:2, 23:4, 30:8; 2Sa 2:1, 5:19, 5:23-24)
-Nathan (2Sa 7:4-16 � 2Sa 12:1 by implication)
-Solomon (1Ki 3:5-15 � maybe 6:11-13)
-Jehu (1Ki 16:1-4)
-Elijah (1Ki 19:9-18)
-Isaiah (2Ki 20:4; Isa 6:8-12, 8:1-11)
-Ahaz (Isa 7:10-25)
-Manasseh and his people (2Ch 33:10)
-Jonah (Jon 1:1-2, 3:1-2, 4:4, 4:9-11)
-Ezekiel (Eze 1:3)
-Hosea (Hos 1:2-5)
-Haggai (Hag 2:10-23)
-Zechariah (Zec 1:1-17)

-People at Jesus�s baptism (Mat 3:17)
-Paul (Act 9:3-6, 18:9)

-God spoke as He inspired Bible writers (2Pe 1:21)
-God spoke as to Old Testament Prophets (Heb 1:1) "


And strangely they missed Moses. Thats ~25 named people and hundreds, if not thousands of friends, families and followers. 

God thought it was a good idea back then but now that there is so much doubt, disagreement and opposing religions, He remains quiet? 

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A few xtian friends have said that they heard god speak to them. Most indicate, straight away, that is was not an actual voice but a feeling so I dismissed them.


When the others were pressed for details such as what god's voice sounded like they deter to the "it was a feeling" argument. Others, who shall remain nameless as I am sure your are sick of hearing about Mrs. MOHO, have gotten angry with my quest for such inane details.


As for information regarding apologetics for god's silence - the ones I have been exposed to have already been detailed in this thread. Of course the "God does not speak to sinners" one really takes be aback due to the ever present assertion that we are all sinners. So, I conclude by this logic, that no one has ever been spoken to by god.

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IMO there's no good apologetic for this, just the platitudes like "believing is better than seeing", or "you shouldn't need a miracle to believe".

Both statements are invalidated by how God interacts with people in the Bible.


While this topic didn't initiate my deconversion, it certainly accelerated it when I cried out to God asking him to reveal himself to me, somehow or someway. Of course, he didn't.


Now it's the first reason I'd give for why I don't believe, mostly because it's so simple to explain to people, and is highly relatable. God has spoken to no one, so they have to wrestle with why that is. Considering they're supposed to have a 'relationship' with Jesus, it's hard to do.

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