Are you an atheist if you fear hell?

[Guest freedwoman]

Horror movies like saw or scream really do happen. Roller coasters really do break. That is why we fear those things.

 

I'm not deciding who is an atheist or not. The definition of atheism is.

 

To fear Hell a part of you would have to feel it exists. But that's just my take.

[Guest freedwoman]

Isn't it an all or nothing belief? No room for doubt?

[fallenleaf]

I don't think your "horror movie things really happen and roller coasters break" logic is nearly as sound as you seem to think it is.  I have no idea how that supports your assertion.  Humans have the ability to predict possible negative situations, and be anxious about them.  Those situations never have to actually happen to cause those feelings, and the person never has to have experienced them to fear them.

 

Your definition of atheism isn't aligned with the real one.  The one where we don't believe in god or gods.  Do you think atheists no longer enjoy ghost movies, because we know ghosts and possessions aren't real?

[fallenleaf]

5 minutes ago, freedwoman said:

Isn't it an all or nothing belief? No room for doubt?

You don't find many fundamentalist atheists, even those among us who are strong atheists and will assert that there is no god, not that we just don't believe in one.  All or nothing sounds like a religious hangup that you have clung to.

[freshstart]

Atheists can have irrational fears just like anyone else. Phobias do not necessarily stem from any real threat. And many people who have phobias also understand how irrational the fears are. I know someone who fears a certain color and cannot wear that color. She knows it is completely irrational. She is also brilliant person with a PhD.  The brain is a strange thing. So yes, an atheist can be a "true atheist" and still have an irrational fear of hell.

[Guest freedwoman]

2 minutes ago, fallenleaf said:

I don't think your "horror movie things really happen and roller coasters break" logic is nearly as sound as you seem to think it is.  I have no idea how that supports your assertion.  Humans have the ability to predict possible negative situations, and be anxious about them.  Those situations never have to actually happen to cause those feelings, and the person never has to have experienced them to fear them.

 

Your definition of atheism isn't aligned with the real one.  The one where we don't believe in god or gods.  Do you think atheists no longer enjoy ghost movies, because we know ghosts and possessions aren't real?

How do you really know they don't exist? Lemme ask you this. Do you still fear Hell? If so why? I mean you know for 100 % certainty it doesn't exist right? How do you know it doesn't exist? 

[Guest freedwoman]

11 minutes ago, freshstart said:

Atheists can have irrational fears just like anyone else. Phobias do not necessarily stem from any real threat. And many people who have phobias also understand how irrational the fears are. I know someone who fears a certain color and cannot wear that color. She knows it is completely irrational. She is also brilliant person with a PhD.  The brain is a strange thing. So yes, an atheist can be a "true atheist" and still have an irrational fear of hell.

How? If Hell really doesn't exist and atheists some how know for certain it doesn't then why fear going there? Phobias can be rationalized. I was abused and bullied my whole life. Now I suffer with Anthropophobia. Maybe that certain color triggers your friend? There could be some rationality behind it?

[Guest freedwoman]

I guess I just don't understand the atheist mind. Sorry.

[Guest freedwoman]

1 minute ago, freedwoman said:

I guess I just don't understand the atheist mind. Sorry.

Nor the theist mind. How do they KNOW???

[Guest freedwoman]

I'll admit it. I guess I don't know anything?

[fallenleaf]

I do not fear hell.  I can't even recall the last time I worried about hell or even thought of it.  Same as the fact that I can't recall the last time I thought there might be something spiritual out there.  But, I was an atheist even before I shook the last vestiges of that belief system from my mind.  And, as an atheist, I consider those who don't believe in god to be in the same group as me.

 

How do I know it doesn't exist?  Because it is absurd.  It would be your burden (or whomever was trying to say hell was real) to provide some proof that it was.  My job isn't to go around and disprove all the silly nonsense that you can dream up.

 

Still, proof has nothing to do with atheism.  You're adding that condition in your own mind.  It's not about proof.  It's about belief in god.  If you don't believe in god, you're an atheist.

[Guest freedwoman]

10 minutes ago, fallenleaf said:

I do not fear hell.  I can't even recall the last time I worried about hell or even thought of it.  Same as the fact that I can't recall the last time I thought there might be something spiritual out there.  But, I was an atheist even before I shook the last vestiges of that belief system from my mind.  And, as an atheist, I consider those who don't believe in god to be in the same group as me.

 

How do I know it doesn't exist?  Because it is absurd.  It would be your burden (or whomever was trying to say hell was real) to provide some proof that it was.  My job isn't to go around and disprove all the silly nonsense that you can dream up.

 

Still, proof has nothing to do with atheism.  You're adding that condition in your own mind.  It's not about proof.  It's about belief in god.  If you don't believe in god, you're an atheist.

I'm not saying Hell really exists mate. I don't know. It may or it may not exist. Face it. No one really knows. 

[Guest freedwoman]

12 minutes ago, fallenleaf said:

I do not fear hell.  

Thanks for proving my point mate. 

[fallenleaf]

It does not exist.  I am saying that.  I don't just think it's not real, it absolutely is not real.

 

But, I welcome as brothers atheists who still worry about it.  If someone does not believe in god, they are an atheist.  Their irrational fears don't change that.

[Guest freedwoman]

2 minutes ago, fallenleaf said:

If someone does not believe in god, they are an atheist.  Their irrational fears don't change that.

Sorry but I disagree buddy. They doubt they are right for certain. They think there may be a possibility it exists. Not true atheists then.

 

But by definition you are a true atheist. Because you think you know for sure it doesn't exist. 

 

My point proven. I hope I can rest my case now.

 

[fallenleaf]

1 minute ago, freedwoman said:

Sorry but I disagree buddy. They doubt they are right for certain. They think there may be a possibility it exists. Not true atheists then.

 

But by definition you are a true atheist. Because you think you know for sure it doesn't exist. 

 

My point proven. I hope I can rest my case now.

 

You disagree, but you are wrong.  You have only proven that you're stubbornly resistant to changing your position.  That's not really a point.  And, it's probably not a great choice of places to rest.

 

I am a true atheist.  I was before you decided that.  I already knew that.  And, I can tell you, those others who don't believe in god are also true atheists.  Even if they worry that they might be wrong about hell, or think that bad karma will change their future, or whatever other irrational fear they might have.  If they don't believe in god, they are true atheists.  You don't get to choose a stricter definition just because you want to.

[Guest freedwoman]

10 minutes ago, fallenleaf said:

You disagree, but you are wrong.  You have only proven that you're stubbornly resistant to changing your position.  That's not really a point.  And, it's probably not a great choice of places to rest.

 

I am a true atheist.  I was before you decided that.  I already knew that.  And, I can tell you, those others who don't believe in god are also true atheists.  Even if they worry that they might be wrong about hell, or think that bad karma will change their future, or whatever other irrational fear they might have.  If they don't believe in god, they are true atheists.  You don't get to choose a stricter definition just because you want to.

Calm down buddy. I'm sure I'm not  the only one being stubborn here. We both are I guess. Also it's the definition of atheism that shows you are a true atheist. Not me. No offence but you didn't and can't prove God or Hell don't exist. Neither can I. No living human being can. 

[Guest freedwoman]

Also I'm not trying to change anyone's position. Mine won't change either. I'm just stating my beliefs. Just like you are stating yours.

[fallenleaf]

You're not an atheist, so why would you presume you get to decide who is and isn't one?  Wouldn't it make more sense for them to self-identify?  And, if that is the case, and you aren't one, why would you presume to deny someone that identity?

[Guest freedwoman]

1 minute ago, fallenleaf said:

You're not an atheist, so why would you presume you get to decide who is and isn't one?  Wouldn't it make more sense for them to self-identify?  And, if that is the case, and you aren't one, why would you presume to deny someone that identity?

Bro. I already said I don't decide who is an atheist or who isn't. The definition does. I'm not trying to deny anyone anything. All I'm saying is that in my opinion people who claim to be atheists and fear Hell at the same time are contradicting themselves. 

[florduh]

3 minutes ago, freedwoman said:

Bro. I already said I don't decide who is an atheist or who isn't. The definition does. I'm not trying to deny anyone anything. All I'm saying is that in my opinion people who claim to be atheists and fear Hell at the same time are contradicting themselves. 

People usually use logic to come to the atheist conclusion regarding assertions about any gods. The fear of hell is an irrational fear as the result of programming/brainwashing. Logic can't prevent irrational fear. A rational, logical brain may realize the dentist is just doing an exam but to a dentophobe it's not about what they know but rather what they feel and fear.

[fallenleaf]

18 minutes ago, freedwoman said:

Bro. I already said I don't decide who is an atheist or who isn't. The definition does. I'm not trying to deny anyone anything. All I'm saying is that in my opinion people who claim to be atheists and fear Hell at the same time are contradicting themselves. 

 

Your definition is unique and restrictive.  It's one that exists only in your own mind and seems designed to exclude as many people from being atheists as possible.  Nothing in the definition of an atheist requires that they hold no irrational fears.

[Guest freedwoman]

Just now, fallenleaf said:

 

Your definition is unique and restrictive.  It's one that exists only in your own mind and seems designed to exclude as many people from being atheists as possible.  Nothing in the definition of an atheist requires that they hold no irrational fears.

About spirituality it seems to not?

[Guest freedwoman]

9 minutes ago, florduh said:

People usually use logic to come to the atheist conclusion regarding assertions about any gods. The fear of hell is an irrational fear as the result of programming/brainwashing. Logic can't prevent irrational fear. A rational, logical brain may realize the dentist is just doing an exam but to a dentophobe it's not about what they know but rather what they feel and fear.

Fears can be rationalized. A person can have a phobia of big dogs after getting mauled by one. 

[fallenleaf]

Just now, freedwoman said:

About spirituality it seems to not?

 

This thought isn't clear.  Can you elaborate on what you mean?  I have no idea how to respond to it.

 

Are we talking about irrational fears?  Why would you try to carve out an exception for those irrationalities which are spiritual?  Hell, spiritual fears are the poster child of irrational fears.