Believe that you have received it, and it is yours

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I have been wondering for years why the evangelist I promoted for 9 years had no trouble lying about the many outstanding miracles he claimed that God did for him and his men. His men also testify to many miracles. Every part of the body healed or grown back; dozens raised from the dead; victorious power battles with covens of witches; driving a truck underwater across a river; etc. They also have odd practices that other missionaries don't. Even if they are puking sick, they still go out preaching and eat the local food (which they puke up again, and then eat again, ad nauseum

 

I realized a few days ago that he is part of a Charismatic branch that thinks if you believe, then it is real and anything contrary is from the devil. So any physical sickness is denied, miracles are claimed because they believe they happened even if no physical evidence is there. The one that started me on the road to deconversion was a long detailed story about witches cursing his translator in Germany so that the guy could not speak. In reality, because I have the videos of what took place, no witches, no power struggle, no witches knocked out by the power of Jesus, just a standard charismatic service and a translator who had trouble understanding a southern American accent. I know from Russian friends who were fluent in English that a deep southern accent makes English into another language that they can't understand. The diphthongs make the sounds very unusual to foreign ears. 

 

In Mark 11:24 it says "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." This is their way of expressing that faith, by simply proclaiming things as being that are not physical. But it is pretty obvious that the rest of the church (and the rest of us) regard their claims of miracles as having physically happened. Even the scriptures talking about the miracles of Jesus say they physically happened. 

 

When we were there visiting his ranch, we all got food poisoning and were vomiting a LOT. He saw that as an attack of the devil. They would take no precautions about having a bucket nearby, because that was giving in to the devil instead of having faith. At the big gathering where the locals fed us, a missionary woman vomited it back up and was told repeatedly that she had to eat it again or the locals would be offended. That was always the excuse, but I'd bet money that the locals thought they were insane to do that. It's one thing to not like the food, it is quite another to be physically ill and vomit. But again, the faith thing demanded that they follow their imagination. 

 

So do other believers that visit here think that this is a correct interpretation of what Jesus intended, or going off the deep end of wacky religion?

 

 

 

 

[florduh]

No, that is not the correct interpretation for that, but snake handlers and poison drinkers do have the correct interpretation. Go figure.

[midniterider]

I wonder if my creditors would buy that idea .... "Believe I have paid you! And so shall it be! It's so simple." lol

[TheRedneckProfessor]

god is mysterious; so, even if you don't receive it, you receive it.  My old church went through a "Name It; Claim It" phase; and when someone didn't get what they prayed for, it was because they hadn't been specific enough.  Or because they couldn't see that god already gave it to them.

[midniterider]

I claim the pastor's wife...and his daughter too. /s

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Sounds like a full blown cult to me!

[LeiaBryant]

1 hour ago, Weezer said:

Sounds like a full blown cult to me!

Agreed

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Yep, it's a cult, and a personality one to boot. The guys were always friendly to me until I made the mistake of telling one of the drones about what I'd seen on the tapes. BOOM!! "You were always asking questions" blah blah blah, anything they could say to put themselves in favor of the leader, and re-emphasize their own faith by criticizing asking questions. 

 

The women in the compound behaved robotically. The guys were super macho southerners. I don't think he had any guys that weren't southern. Anger seemed to be the primary emotion, though they usually would deny that. One of his daughters complained to a friend that "they are angry ALL THE TIME!". My hunch is that the group will fold when the leader dies. I'm honestly surprised that he's still alive. He's been looking pale and such for about 15 years. 

 

I'd go so far as to say that many of the Pentecostal and Charismatic churches I knew back in the late 80s were cults. The pastors were fully in charge, you paid your tithe and they checked your income to make sure (so that you wouldn't be in sin and cause judgment on the congregation), you asked them if you could date so-and-so and they either agreed or accused you of lust, pressure all the time to conform and behave certain ways, give your free time in service to the church, most of the women had to grow their hair long in accordance with scripture and wear modest dresses so they didn't entice the men. All out mind control and emotional manipulation for money and power. 

 

[Hierophant]

Nothing in my reading would lead me to believe those who contributed to the Bible would recognize any of this. If I remember correctly, a lot of fundamentalism as we know it started in the early 20th century as a backlash of biblical criticism in Europe and perceived liberal views of the Bible. Charismatic and/or Pentecostal (as we know them) versions of Christianity are later inventions.

[AcrobaticDetective]

That would not resemble anything the Jesus I grew up with would condone.