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LeiaBryant

What do you all think about reincarnation?

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5 hours ago, TEG said:

It is matter-dependent, brain-dependent, is altered when the brain is altered, and ends when the brain dies.

How do we know this, given that we perceive everything through senses which are quite obviously flawed; and therefore, by extension, our perception is also flawed?   We know our consciousness exists, because we are aware of it; but can we be sure that said awareness is physically tied to a physical brain?  Can I be sure that "I" am not just a collection of random ganglia in a specimen jar somewhere being occasionally stimulated by electrodes?

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Hello and all good to the all good!

     Reincarnation in what sense? What does mean, exactly? Some sort of separate individual part aka soul? And this travels from form to form ? This already presupposes a lot then. So first we would need to pinpoint and trst the existence of this part and then probe it travels. Then how and why. 

     I see so far no sufficient proof for it.

       I personally do not like that idea anyway. One being , yes. For me the ressurection where all humans get their body back sounds better.

     But first things first. What is the general framework you are thiking of when saying "reincarnation" ? 

 

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3 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

How do we know this, given that we perceive everything through senses which are quite obviously flawed; and therefore, by extension, our perception is also flawed?   We know our consciousness exists, because we are aware of it; but can we be sure that said awareness is physically tied to a physical brain?

 

The assertion was made that consciousness is eternal.  I am going to defer the question of how we know anything because that is an entirely different subject.  I do not perceive any evidence of consciousness apart from a brain, such as a spirit arising from a dead body and speaking, or a disembodied hand writing on a wall.  You can turn someone’s consciousness off by whacking them on the head, or giving them drugs.  When someone descends into dementia due to a disease like Alzheimer’s, it is often painfully evident that they are not the person they once were, not recognizing their family members and so forth, because their brain is not what it was.  And when someone dies, that’s it; no more consciousness.  Hence my statement, I do not see any evidence that consciousness is eternal.  If you have evidence, I would be interested.  The reincarnation links are interesting, but a lot of it seems sort of vague, and strictly speaking it seems to deal with preservation of memory from one individual to another, not continuous consciousness per se.

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TEG: If you have evidence, I would be interested.

 

...

 

What kind of evidence would you accept? What would change your mind? 

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9 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

How do we know this, given that we perceive everything through senses which are quite obviously flawed; and therefore, by extension, our perception is also flawed?   We know our consciousness exists, because we are aware of it; but can we be sure that said awareness is physically tied to a physical brain?  Can I be sure that "I" am not just a collection of random ganglia in a specimen jar somewhere being occasionally stimulated by electrodes?

 

The first mistake: Jesus is real. 

The second mistake: I am real. 

 

lol.

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17 minutes ago, midniterider said:

TEG: If you have evidence, I would be interested.

 

I don’t understand this part.  I am saying that I see no evidence for the assertion that consciousness is eternal.

 

17 minutes ago, midniterider said:

What kind of evidence would you accept? What would change your mind? 

 

A spirit arising from a dead body and speaking, or a disembodied hand writing on a wall.

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6 minutes ago, TEG said:

 

I don’t understand this part.  I am saying that I see no evidence for the assertion that consciousness is eternal.

 

 

A spirit arising from a dead body and speaking, or a disembodied hand writing on a wall.

 

Would you accept a medium channeling the spirit of a dead person speaking through their body?

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38 minutes ago, LeiaBryant said:

Would you accept a medium channeling the spirit of a dead person speaking through their body?

 

Many, many "channelers" have brought us supposed communication from the dead and other "entities." They so far (all of history) have failed to bring us coherent, verifiable information and on the big cosmic issues are not in agreement with each other. In most cases the medium act is just extra window dressing for regular cold reading. The James Randi foundation has offered a million dollars to anyone demonstrating any kind of paranormal ability beginning in 1964 and ultimately abandoning the challenge in 2015. The most telling thing about human belief systems is the fact that even after being busted, even after admission of fakery, the mediums, faith healers, prophets and snake oil salesmen in general STILL HAVE A FOLLOWING OF ADAMANT BELIEVERS.

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1 hour ago, LeiaBryant said:

Would you accept a medium channeling the spirit of a dead person speaking through their body?

 

How about, “Rosabelle, believe?”  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  It would have to be something pretty specific, that I could personally verify.  As florduh said, it doesn’t seem to have happened yet.

 

 

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4 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

Would you accept a medium channeling the spirit of a dead person speaking through their body?

 

"This is a selected list of peer-reviewed journal articles about psi (psychic) phenomena, most published in the 21st century."

 

http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

 

.....

 

If you would like to read some of the scientific research of psi phenomena some of these can be pretty interesting. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

Would you accept a medium channeling the spirit of a dead person speaking through their body?

 

How about someone actually tell me what I'm thinking? It's live, and you cannot fake it, and it's got to be exact - no "you were thinking about something" stuff. No shit I was thinking about something.

 

There are a lot of claims about people being able to channel stuff, or do supernatural things, but when actually tested their abilities suddenly disappear.

 

How do we know a medium is channelling said spirit as opposed to simply faking it or making stuff up (Which I suppose is faking it).

 

Hospitals have done tests for near death experiences where people claim that they are a 'spirit' outside of their body, but no one has actually reported back the tests set out.

 

Weird stuff sometimes goes on in our fragile brains, especially near death, or when under chemical influence, or heightened emotional states, but so far it all seems internal.

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21 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

"This is a selected list of peer-reviewed journal articles about psi (psychic) phenomena, most published in the 21st century."

 

http://deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm

 

.....

 

If you would like to read some of the scientific research of psi phenomena some of these can be pretty interesting. 

 

 

 

Reading the results of the intercessory prayer one. They seem to think prayer actually works. Does it work in reverse then? Can you pray that someone will get worse and they do? I'd be interested in a study on that... of course there are some serious ethical implications.

 

Also does it have to be believers saying the prayers?

 

What is the mechanism that's working, if indeed the difference in the groups is not simply noise?

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27 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

How about someone actually tell me what I'm thinking? It's live, and you cannot fake it, and it's got to be exact - no "you were thinking about something" stuff. No shit I was thinking about something.

 

 

 

She said channeling a dead person. You're still alive. No cheating. 

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22 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Reading the results of the intercessory prayer one. They seem to think prayer actually works. Does it work in reverse then? Can you pray that someone will get worse and they do? I'd be interested in a study on that... of course there are some serious ethical implications.

 

Also does it have to be believers saying the prayers?

 

What is the mechanism that's working, if indeed the difference in the groups is not simply noise?

 

My answer to your questions are "I dont know, Sir."

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, midniterider said:

 

My answer to your questions are "I dont know, Sir."

 

 

 

 

I know... they were kinda 'these would be interesting to know' questions. I had dozens more but stopped at 3 😁

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2 hours ago, midniterider said:

She said channeling a dead person. You're still alive. No cheating. 

 

Yes but you must know my problem with channeling said dead person... how can we ever know they actually are channeling them? I put that stuff right up there as speaking as a mouthpiece of god or God talk to you etc. Little difference as far as I can tell. 

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1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes but you must know my problem with channeling said dead person... how can we ever know they actually are channeling them? I put that stuff right up there as speaking as a mouthpiece of god or God talk to you etc. Little difference as far as I can tell. 

Well put here. For example in my christian reading they warned that evil spirits can pretend to channel divine wisdom so one must be skeptical about it. This was the beggining of how should one test for authencity.  Like, how can one test said spirit? By the way many ancient christians thought Mohammed channeled a devil not God. 

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16 minutes ago, Myrkhoos said:

Well put here. For example in my christian reading they warned that evil spirits can pretend to channel divine wisdom so one must be skeptical about it. This was the beggining of how should one test for authencity.  Like, how can one test said spirit? By the way many ancient christians thought Mohammed channeled a devil not God. 

I guess you have to know the right questions to ask 

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2 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

I guess you have to know the right questions to ask 

 

Yes...and one of those questions is how can a person claiming to be channelling a dead person actually demonstrate that? 

 

I actually have a piece of information about my late grandfather that I am sure only I know. Perhaps if someone could connect with said late grandfather and tell me what that information is I would give this channeling thing some serious thought. However even then I'm not sure it's be enough to convince anyone but me. It's a bit like a personal experience with God. Convinces the person who had the experiances but shouldn't convince anyone else.

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3 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I actually have a piece of information about my late grandfather that I am sure only I know. Perhaps if someone could connect with said late grandfather and tell me what that information is I would give this channeling thing some serious thought.

Even Houdini couldn't communicate his secret code after his death. And they really tried.

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7 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Like, how can one test said spirit?

 

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.

1 John 4:1-3

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10 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes but you must know my problem with channeling said dead person... how can we ever know they actually are channeling them? I put that stuff right up there as speaking as a mouthpiece of god or God talk to you etc. Little difference as far as I can tell. 

 

We can never know for sure they are really channeling someone. I agree. We can only assign our own individual confidence level to our experience of a psychic reading based on what they might be able to 'glean.' I partially agree that claiming to talk to dead relatives is similar to being the mouthpiece of God. I'm not sure the dead always have the same worldview as the psychic, like a Christian and their God seem to do, but I havent paid much attention either. 

 

Years ago my wife was into Sylvia Browne and then moved on to the Long Island Psychic... I dismissed it out of hand as total bullshit (not very scientific of me), though, at the time I was interested in magick and rituals (haha). I understand that reality shows are designed less for reality and more for ratings, but for whatever reason, I am a bit more open to that kind of stuff now. 

 

The paranormal, has come to fascinate me over the years. It might be real. It might not.

 

Anyway, carry on.

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On 3/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

How do we know this, given that we perceive everything through senses which are quite obviously flawed; and therefore, by extension, our perception is also flawed?   We know our consciousness exists, because we are aware of it; but can we be sure that said awareness is physically tied to a physical brain?  Can I be sure that "I" am not just a collection of random ganglia in a specimen jar somewhere being occasionally stimulated by electrodes?

 

Our flawed senses, not to mention how our brain fills in the blanks with what it 'thinks' ought to be out there due to past experience.  

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Here's Donald Hoffman for 40 minutes (sorry it's so long). The more I think about his ideas the more it blows my mind. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Yes...and one of those questions is how can a person claiming to be channelling a dead person actually demonstrate that? 

 

I actually have a piece of information about my late grandfather that I am sure only I know. Perhaps if someone could connect with said late grandfather and tell me what that information is I would give this channeling thing some serious thought. However even then I'm not sure it's be enough to convince anyone but me. It's a bit like a personal experience with God. Convinces the person who had the experiances but shouldn't convince anyone else.

I got similar such personal information given to me, I am convinced but it won't change anyone else's mind. I need something that can convince others besides just myself.

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