Fine tuning?

[AcrobaticDetective]

Have any of you debated anyone on the fine tuning argument? I was told recently that it is the strongest rational argument for a god, but I don't understand how it's any different than a god of the gaps. Doesn't it just insert God into an unknown variable as if God is the obvious answer because we just don't know better?

 

P.S. I hope everyone is doing well during this pandemic.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

It is essentially going backwards, looking at how life is well adapted to Earth, then saying that since (Earth) life can't exist outside of these parameters, therefore a god (and always specifically the Christian god) made it happen. It's a stupid argument from the get-go and ignores all the evidence we have of adaptations over the millenia. Why adapt if you are perfectly suited to the environment? 

[WalterP]

Have any of you debated anyone on the fine tuning argument? I was told recently that it is the strongest rational argument for a god, but I don't understand how it's any different than a god of the gaps. Doesn't it just insert God into an unknown variable as if God is the obvious answer because we just don't know better?

 

P.S. I hope everyone is doing well during this pandemic.

 

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Hello AcrobaticDetective.

 

Yes thanks, we're coping for now with C19.  Not many cases in our area, tho' that's sure to change. We'll adapt.

 

Since arriving at Ex-C I haven't debated with anyone (no Christians, certainly) about this topic.  But I do know that there's a fundamental flaw with the way Christian apologists use it.  Instead of clearly indicating the identity of the finely-tuning agent as the Christian god of the Bible, it actually levels the playing field, enabling anyone of any religious belief to claim that their particular god is responsible.

 

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs and many others all have equally good claims because they can all employ fine-tuning arguments.  Therefore fine-tuning arguments may be the strongest rational arguments for a god... but which one? 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter. 

[AcrobaticDetective]

1 hour ago, Fuego said:

It is essentially going backwards, looking at how life is well adapted to Earth, then saying that since (Earth) life can't exist outside of these parameters, therefore a god (and always specifically the Christian god) made it happen. It's a stupid argument from the get-go and ignores all the evidence we have of adaptations over the millenia. Why adapt if you are perfectly suited to the environment? 

 

That's how I saw it too. 

[AcrobaticDetective]

1 hour ago, WalterP said:

Muslims, Jews, Christians, Sikhs and many others all have equally good claims because they can all employ fine-tuning arguments.  Therefore fine-tuning arguments may be the strongest rational arguments for a god... but which one? 

 

Excellent point. 

[Wertbag]

There is the common myth repeated when you hear about fine tuning "If the world was slightly closer to the sun we would burn up, but slightly further away and we would freeze", but really how "fine" is that tuning?  Well once we found the earth is in an elliptical orbit, not circular, we realised that the earth will swing anywhere between 146 million km and 152 million km.  That is a swing of 6 million km either way.  With that in mind exactly how is the term "slightly" being used?

The habitable area around a star, the so called "goldilocks zone" has a range of estimates usually in the hundreds of millions of km.  Based on these estimates there are tens of billions of planets in our galaxy alone.

 

You also can look at the variety of life.  We have creatures living in the Sahara desert, in the Artic, at the crushing depths at the bottom of the oceans, in the toxic boiling waters around volcanic vents.  Its harder to think of a location on earth that life won't find a way to survive in.  We've even dropped some bugs on the moon, and in their hibernating state they could potentially still be alive today.  We've even had some mass extinction events like the end of the ice age or the dinosaur killer asteroid, but life has grown in complexity and variety until we have the millions of species we now see.  Life is resilient.