The "Occult Conspiracy"

[zuker12]

A questionnaire for y'all:

 

Did you believe in an occult conspiracy back when you believed? Why, what arguments were given?

 

With occult conspiracy, I mean the sort, where organized pagans/witches/etc. are trying to take over the world, are massively organized (lead by Satan through spiritual contact) and funded, which commit heinous dark rituals hidden from plain sight and generally try to destroy Christianity (and often all other forms of religion too aside from Satanism/Luciferianism).

 

This was the sort of the thing that drew me instantly in to Christianity - nowadays I don't know what to think about it. I initially got drawn in after reading some dramatic testimonies and then some theoretic info on the Illuminati. I think the testimonials did it for me...

 

Nowadays it feels and seems like a load of bunk, but the world is full of evil, with organized criminals, backwards beliefs and general nastiness espoused by various people at various times. In some ways I don't think it's surprising, as I've read a lot of stuff over the years and as much as we think with secular lenses in our western world, what I notice time and time again is that surprisingly heavy undercurrents of magical thought and supernaturalism abound even in our western world - although we have less of the excesses, like in Africa medicine killings/muti killings are a social phenomenon. Sometimes they even are semi-organized, protected by a protection racket (where the medicine men are extorted since they are basically committing horrible crimes.) As a special note, Illuminati has been blamed many times for world domination conspiracies, even back in the 18th/19th century, when rulers and clergymen basically did not like these secret societies (and they were blamed for attempting to bring an anti-God/atheistic, rationalist world into existence)

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I read the Constancy Cumby books back in the 80s about the Aquarian Conspiracy and Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow, etc. The devil was big news back then. Rock groups were suddenly facing conservative Christian groups calling for investigations of backmasking to program children to worship Satan. Groups like Maranatha were going around to churches showing a video about how Satan was in all the rock music, via images and lyrics. They spent a lot of time on Stairway to Heaven being written in a Satanist's house, that the lyrics promise you can always change your mind later, that the May Queen is a Mab, a demon goddess, blah blah blah. 

 

Believers especially are always looking for some kind of confirmation that the soulless anti-sexual tripe they swallowed is ALL REALLY TRUE. So when demons became the fad in the 80s, they latched onto it and spiritual warfare became the trend. So conspiracies fit right into that whole mindset.

 

Lately I've been hearing it from another angle, the UFO crowd. Guys that claim they've been not only abducted, but chosen to pilot space craft, age-reversed so they wouldn't remember it, met all kinds of aliens in the hidden cities on the moon, and how Earth government has been in league with the aliens for generations. And that some aliens are energy beings that essentially eat certain vibes of energy, particularly terror. So there are supposedly giant "rings" of pedophiles torturing children sadistically to feed these aliens in return for vast wealth on Earth. When the Epstein thing hit the news, that actually seemed to give it credence. And then his "suicide" seemed to confirm that there is a lot more going on that we don't hear about in the news. 

 

Overall, I take stories with more than one grain of salt since stories are stories without physical evidence. Could there indeed be people that believe that their power comes from aliens when they torture and kill children? Sure. Could they be in the same groups as the Skull and Bones and Bohemian Grove crowd? Sure. They have enough money to be "invisible" and to remove those that might expose them. Is it likely that the super rich have fetishes that they can indulge without being seen (except by other super rich who will use that information/video to ruin them)? Perhaps. Wealth and power have always gone hand in hand, and fetish has always been a thing with humans. 

 

Are there really demons/aliens behind it all? Probably not. But it isn't impossible, just not likely given what we know. That is predicated on "what we know" being real, and not completely manipulated for thousands of years to hide actual reality from us. But the odds are that there are some super rich who indulge in occult rituals, some who are pedophiles, some who use their money to kill and manipulate to protect themselves while appearing clean to the public, some who do all of the above and much more. What do you do when you have hundreds of billions and nothing on which to spend it? What do you do with the boredom? 

[MOHO]

References to the occult and the social pressure to accept that an army of demons are hell bent on the suffering of man was one of the things that prompted me to question Christianity and religion in general. It made me take note of the percentage of emotional, superstitious people in the church. Really. This was shocking as I had, up to that point, thought of these folks as rational, for the most part, and found their presence to be comforting. 

[DarkLordPhil]

I don't think I believed in an occult conspiracy back when I was in the church, but I did believe Satanic influences were everywhere. My parents weren't big conspiracy theorists, but they did believe that demons influenced entertainers and writers. Harry Potter, for instance, was inspired by Satan to draw kids into witchcraft. A lot of secular music, in their view, was demonically influenced to get kids to rebel against their parents and leave the church. I was terrified to read Harry Potter for the longest time because of this, but when I did read it, I learned that my parents were full of shit. Same discovery when I heard a song by The Goo Goo Dolls over the radio during class one day. 

 

Of course, both of my parents came of age during the Satanic Panic, so I think that had an influence on their thinking. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

55 minutes ago, DarkLordPhil said:

I was terrified to read Harry Potter for the longest time because of this, but when I did read it, I learned that my parents were full of shit.

 

I had actually prayed over the books in a local bookstore... After I deconverted, I listened to the audio books. Over, and over, and over, and over.... loved 'em.

[DarkLordPhil]

7 minutes ago, Fuego said:

 

I had actually prayed over the books in a local bookstore... After I deconverted, I listened to the audio books. Over, and over, and over, and over.... loved 'em.

 

I read the books years before I deconverted, but I was obsessed with them for a good 10 years after my initial read. Reading them was one of the first things that helped me realize that religious people will sometimes lie to keep you away from something that isn't worth all the terror. 

[Tsathoggua9]

I have always had an interest in the paranormal, but never as a "true believer". I just thought it was funny how conservative Christian folks were so terrified of the devil, and saw his influence everywhere they looked.

[MOHO]

Just now, Tsathoggua9 said:

I have always had an interest in the paranormal, but never as a "true believer". I just thought it was funny how conservative Christian folks were so terrified of the devil, and saw his influence everywhere they looked.

Me too.

However, now that I am married to one of those "Satan is everywhere and influences everything" types it ain't so funny. I mean it's funny in a logical sense but not in a humorous enjoyment way.

[DanForsman]

I've been thinking for some time that there is a deep seated belief in many that concentrated thoughts can create places and real living people and creatures. They feel like if a person wants something to be true very deeply and then especially if they find others who want those same things to be true then among their group they are able to create an actual reality that everyone should then recognize. Their wanting and the wanting of others like them is enough to actually become the proof that what they want to believe in is true. Similar to the part in Peter Pan where the audience is told to believe that Tinkerbell is alive and clap there hands and they do and then Tinkerbell comes back to life. If we want to believe something enough then, as we here at ExC have become well aware of, we cross a line in our thinking where an entirely different standard of proof replaces our ordinary standard. This is maybe an example of one way we acquire proof for demons and witches, etc. I mean how often do we hear words like I feel like this or that must be true offered as a kind of evidence that something must exist.   

[LeiaBryant]

I kinda was a believer in it sort of. I had a very negative experience with a actual Satanist of the theistic variety that freaked me out as a kid. Also Fuck anyone who sacrifices a cat to there God. I love cats. Note I went to a school for children with behavior issues when I was in most of elementary school. I saw some SHIT. Back then I didn't have a medical diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome like I do now I did not get that until middle school.

[zuker12]

15 minutes ago, LeiaBryant said:

I kinda was a believer in it sort of. I had a very negative experience with a actual Satanist of the theistic variety that freaked me out as a kid. Also Fuck anyone who sacrifices a cat to there God. I love cats. Note I went to a school for children with behavior issues when I was in most of elementary school. I saw some SHIT. Back then I didn't have a medical diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome like I do now I did not get that until middle

 

Man, that sounds tough.

 

I do wonder sometimes how these connections are made: for example, Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are often accused of atleast semi-deliberate occultism, magick and satanism in their writings. A "prominent ex-occultist" (John Todd) even said that Tolkien was required reading in "witchcraft religion" initiation (which is possibly not Wicca, but some sort of mish-mash of every non-christian philosophy and religion - he implicated almost everyone in his master conspiracy theory). This seems to boil down to

 

1) Lewis and Tolkien were not your typical fundamentalists, and Tolkien was even a Roman Catholic (gasp!)

2) Lewis dabbled or struggled with paganism and occult ideas at some point in his life

3) Tolkien incorporated stuff from his academic study, which means it's real paganism

4) Tolkien and Lewis were in the Inklings, a literary group lead by their close friend Charles Williams who was an occultist, at least in theoretical study, and was a member of Rosicrucians and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. (Tolkien and Lewis have been accused of being members too, but there is no proof of this AFAIK and Tolkien even cautioned against Williams' practices

 

 

Musicians and artists are often accused of collaborating with the government, the occultists either willingly or unwillingly because they either hung or were born around these people or were complacent in taking drugs or had occult beliefs themselves. (If you have an occult belief, no Christian beliefs are valid from that point on for the fundamentalists)

 

One reason.I am curious is that if such forces exist, can I trust my lines of reasoning against the validity of Christianity? Philosophical ones might stay, but what about archeological evidence, literary evidence? Isn't there a chance that they are manipulated, or falsified?

[Tsathoggua9]

1 hour ago, DanForsman said:

I've been thinking for some time that there is a deep seated belief in many that concentrated thoughts can create places and real living people and creatures. They feel like if a person wants something to be true very deeply and then especially if they find others who want those same things to be true then among their group they are able to create an actual reality that everyone should then recognize. Their wanting and the wanting of others like them is enough to actually become the proof that what they want to believe in is true. Similar to the part in Peter Pan where the audience is told to believe that Tinkerbell is alive and clap there hands and they do and then Tinkerbell comes back to life. If we want to believe something enough then, as we here at ExC have become well aware of, we cross a line in our thinking where an entirely different standard of proof replaces our ordinary standard. This is maybe an example of one way we acquire proof for demons and witches, etc. I mean how often do we hear words like I feel like this or that must be true offered as a kind of evidence that something must exist.   

 

Yeah, there is a name for that concept -- a "tulpa" is a thought come to life!

[DanForsman]

3 hours ago, zuker12 said:

One reason.I am curious is that if such forces exist, can I trust my lines of reasoning against the validity of Christianity? Philosophical ones might stay, but what about archeological evidence, literary evidence? Isn't there a chance that they are manipulated, or falsified?

This looks like the basis of a conspiracy theory in that not only are some people interested in misrepresenting and falsifying both history and (more unbelievably) science but the vast majority are. This must continue to be true as each succeeding group new to the field cooperates with misinterpreting evidence and even continues down the false path creating new falsehoods. Sure that is a possibility but in my mind a very unlikely one. I guess it helps if you want to believe something along these lines then to accept the Christian premise that all humans are evil at their core. Science allows for rejection of unsound ideas and replacement of imperfect ideas at anyplace within the chain meaning even fundamental ideas can be eliminated if shown to be incorrect. It seems like if science were fake then it would be much less coherent and filled with competing views.

   I want add a little post script here because on further reflection I think there is no good reason to believe that humans are inherently evil nor is there good reason to believe that science is not legitimate. With science the long string of obvious accomplishments in medicine, aeronautics, computer sciences, engineering, astronomy, biology, etc. is truly astonishing and is a good indicator the the scientific method is successful and alive and well still today. A fair evaluation of the nature of man will I believe demonstrate that humanity is more good that evil. The social kindness, human rites protections, basic justice and care and protection of the less fortunate that is so prevalent in our western societies is in my opinion historically unprecedented. I was born in 1947 and have lived my entire live in probably the most peaceful time that has ever been recorded. The primitive harsh society represented in the bible can't hold a candle to our present western civilization in terms of respecting and empathizing with our fellow human beings. Our legal systems clearly indicate a higher standard of justice than has been practiced by any society before ours. This social progress is not what anyone would expect to result  from an evil human nature.    

[Tsathoggua9]

1 hour ago, MOHO said:

Me too.

However, now that I am married to one of those "Satan is everywhere and influences everything" types it ain't so funny. I mean it's funny in a logical sense but not in a humorous enjoyment way.

 Oh golly, that would be a very "non-optimal" situation. Can't imagine! Sorry, dude!

[LeiaBryant]

1 hour ago, zuker12 said:

 

Man, that sounds tough.

 

I do wonder sometimes how these connections are made: for example, Tolkien and C.S. Lewis are often accused of atleast semi-deliberate occultism, magick and satanism in their writings. A "prominent ex-occultist" (John Todd) even said that Tolkien was required reading in "witchcraft religion" initiation (which is possibly not Wicca, but some sort of mish-mash of every non-christian philosophy and religion - he implicated almost everyone in his master conspiracy theory). This seems to boil down to

 

1) Lewis and Tolkien were not your typical fundamentalists, and Tolkien was even a Roman Catholic (gasp!)

2) Lewis dabbled or struggled with paganism and occult ideas at some point in his life

3) Tolkien incorporated stuff from his academic study, which means it's real paganism

4) Tolkien and Lewis were in the Inklings, a literary group lead by their close friend Charles Williams who was an occultist, at least in theoretical study, and was a member of Rosicrucians and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. (Tolkien and Lewis have been accused of being members too, but there is no proof of this AFAIK and Tolkien even cautioned against Williams' practices

 

 

Musicians and artists are often accused of collaborating with the government, the occultists either willingly or unwillingly because they either hung or were born around these people or were complacent in taking drugs or had occult beliefs themselves. (If you have an occult belief, no Christian beliefs are valid from that point on for the fundamentalists)

 

One reason.I am curious is that if such forces exist, can I trust my lines of reasoning against the validity of Christianity? Philosophical ones might stay, but what about archeological evidence, literary evidence? Isn't there a chance that they are manipulated, or falsified?

To this day I still love CS Lewis's books.

[Joshpantera]

18 hours ago, zuker12 said:

Did you believe in an occult conspiracy back when you believed? Why, what arguments were given?

 

Ok, so I certainly did believe it in the 70's and 80's. By the 90's I stopped believing in god and christianity and stopped believing in these conspiracies at the same time. By the late 2000's I had confronted issues like Bohemian Grove. And began to see that there are clearly ties between government officials and the occult.

 

So my opinion now took on all of the obvious factors. We clearly have certain political personalities dabbling (even if screwing around) in various occultism, via secret society membership or whatever. But it's a bunch of fraternal type fooling around. The allegations are that it goes further and rape and sacrifice have taken place, but these are generally hearsay and anecdotal. 

 

But christians do have a leg to stand on thinking that political leaders are mixed up in occultism in one way or another. It's just not what christians assume that it is. Nothing that substantiates the existence of a god or devil. Just people fooling around and acting fraternal. 

[zuker12]

6 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Ok, so I certainly did believe it in the 70's and 80's. By the 90's I stopped believing in god and christianity and stopped believing in these conspiracies at the same time. By the late 2000's I had confronted issues like Bohemian Grove. And began to see that there are clearly ties between government officials and the occult.

 

So my opinion now took on all of the obvious factors. We clearly have certain political personalities dabbling (even if screwing around) in various occultism, via secret society membership or whatever. But it's a bunch of fraternal type fooling around. The allegations are that it goes further and rape and sacrifice have taken place, but these are generally hearsay and anecdotal. 

 

But christians do have a leg to stand on thinking that political leaders are mixed up in occultism in one way or another. It's just not what christians assume that it is. Nothing that substantiates the existence of a god or devil. Just people fooling around and acting fraternal. 

I know, and these occult shenanigans typically seem like just that; people having various beliefs, and fooling around, some displaying bad characteristics, some not. This would not even matter if these were not accused of systematic ritual murder and various criminal activity.

 

I do not really believe that there are a mass of human sacrifices in all world governments each year, or that there are super-organized satanic families doing all kinds of wonky stuff in daycare centers; however it bothers me that there are a few "Illuminati defectors" and the like. Not in the thousands or even in the hundreds, but enough to make one wonder.

 

One particular dude which has become my "pet peeve" of sorts (probably a triggerer of OCD/anxiety as he linked almost everything to his or the Illuminati's supposed activities and maybe the reason I'm asking) is this John Todd, an "ex Grand-Druid". He alleged various things; many of them either false or half-true, like in that he knows the concepts but doesn't understand what they actually mean. His MO has been to basically name drop everyone and anything; then implicate those persons or organizations as satanic or dabbling in nasty business.

 

A central point of contention has been whether he served as a Green Beret in Vietnam; his official military records show this to be false. However, he has claimed that the Illuminati destroyed or sealed his records after he was involved in a totally maniac "downtown shootout" and killed an officer in Stuttgart. (in the link below, this is not the given reason, but rather the fact that he was supposedly part of the Phoenix Program, the infamous "mass assasination" program in Vientam, and the military has sealed the records of each and every participant in the Phoenix Program - this record sealing business is probably false, but I was unable to gather a proper answer.) Note that telling you have an official title or military position that you don't actually have is rather standard lie-telling when you want to embellish your achievements - mayors have done it and gone to jail for that.

 

http://www.dissident-net.info/john-todd/

 

If anyone can do this, I would like some help with finding out the truth of this issue, as here he says a friggin' newspaper outed him as actually being a Green Beret - the military being somehow spectacularly incompetent by outing supposed top-secret records or information on top-secret records to a newspaper journalist, even when this was supposed to be an Illuminati "super-secret". He says that this happened in The Record newspaper in Columbia (probably Columbia Record), probably in the year 1987 (could be also any year from 1987-1991) as he was being jailed in South Carolina. I would like to confirm this; but searching online newspaper archives of South Carolina newspapers yielded nothing, except that John Wayne Todd, "a survivalist" was going to be prosecuted and that he was going to sue the state for mishandling some evidence. Unfortunately it seems the Columbia Record in itself is not available as an online archive, and only available as microfilm from the Richland country library, which I have no realistic access to. I don't think there is nothing, as this is not new on the embellishment front from him, but it would be interesting to see if what he says has merit - if he was a Green Beret, was he still deluded, even if they falsified his records for being in Vietnam? Why would the government do that? Anyway, I'm not capable to access the library physically, but would still like to confirm if what he said was actually true.

 

Also a new thing in the life of this conspiracy boi is that he apparently has not died: https://www.henrymakow.com/witches_rule_illuminati_said_j.html

"Now how could he have died on the 10th of November 2007 and then have filed a claim on the 28th of November contesting his own death? Then there's more, I did a background search on John and found out that from 2008 until this present day he's been at Columbia Regional Care Center and I found out that Columbia Regional Care Center is owned by GEO Care Inc., which is an Illuminati company that builds privatized prisons and FEMA Camps."

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Seems like, if christians really were filled with the holy spirit of an omnipotent god, they wouldn't worry so much about a paltry little thing like the devil.

[DarkLordPhil]

2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Seems like, if christians really were filled with the holy spirit of an omnipotent god, they wouldn't worry so much about a paltry little thing like the devil.

 

Unless they believe that the Holy Spirit of said omnipotent god will only intercede if they ask for something that god was already planning to grant. So if you face down the devil and God wasn't planning to let you prevail, you're SOL. 

 

(the pentecostal theology I was brought up around never stated this in so many words, but that was basically the gist of it. All the demon-smashing power you're given comes from God and only works when he wants it to. Pretty lame superpower, if you ask me.) 

[midniterider]

On 3/24/2020 at 2:18 PM, Tsathoggua9 said:

 

Yeah, there is a name for that concept -- a "tulpa" is a thought come to life!

If someone was raised as a Christian and also had the wicked ability to create a tulpa...but weren't aware of the tulpa concept....then Jesus  Christ could be an entire separate personality inside their head. If you had a tulpa in your head named Jesus that behaved according to the gospels then you'd be pretty adamant that Jesus is real.  

 

For me, though, Jesus was never more than a vague hazy imagination that wasn't much different than my personality.  

 

...

 

Maybe the holy spirit is just an energy egregore thoughtform.  

[midniterider]

We didn't really have an occult conspiracy in my church in the 90s. The occult got lumped in with new age, out of body experiences , crystals, etc. The Satanic Panic and Prayer Warriors were present in my Pente church but that was about it. 

[Tsathoggua9]

8 hours ago, midniterider said:

We didn't really have an occult conspiracy in my church in the 90s. The occult got lumped in with new age, out of body experiences , crystals, etc. The Satanic Panic and Prayer Warriors were present in my Pente church but that was about it. 

 

I was a teenager in the 1970s, and practiced astral projection and lucid dreaming, read Carlos Castaneda and various paranormal books, and played with ouija boards. I don't remember a big fuss over these things. I think the real "panic" came later, in the 1980s.