Need help

[pck]

Sorry for the second post in a row, but it seems I can't edit my previous one (at least not on mobile).

 

I found out that there seem to be lots of various methods for gematria:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

 

This of course offers more chances to find one that creates the desired results, though one must admit they used the standard one for their calculations...

[florduh]

Patterns are found everywhere, the golden ratio for example. People tend to assign meaning to some patterns but that does not mean they have an intrinsic or correct meaning. Making things mean what we want them to mean is the basis for astrology, tea leaf reading and palmistry.

 

[MOHO]

Just now, florduh said:

Patterns are found everywhere, the golden ratio for example. People tend to assign meaning to some patterns but that does not mean they have an intrinsic or correct meaning. Making things mean what we want them to mean is the basis for astrology, tea leaf reading and palmistry.

 

... and end-times predictions.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I tried reading leaves; but it wasn't my cup of tea. 

[midniterider]

For Maria and Pck,

 

Now that you have this item of numerology in your mind, how are you going to proceed? 

 

1. Continue to be paralyzed with fear?

2. Become a Christian again?

3. Ignore it? Ask yourself why you are assigning such a high confidence level to numerology? 

 

Did you have some reasons that you don't believe in Christianity anymore? Are they maybe more important than bible letters that can be spun to any meaning you desire? I am pretty sure with the correct (and meaningless) mathematics I can reduce any book of the bible down to the word "nonsense." 

 

I notice sometimes I obsess about something: What if X happens? OMG! And then freeze at that point. It has been helpful to think beyond that. 

 

Does Jesus really do anything here on earth? Like appear? Why would we think he is going to be more motivated upon our death?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Maybe the pi and e factor is a link to "pie in the sky"??

 

Sorry, that just popped into my mind and I couldn't resist posting it.  It is hard for me to take this discussion seriously.

[pck]

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

For Maria and Pck,

 

Now that you have this item of numerology in your mind, how are you going to proceed? 

 

1. Continue to be paralyzed with fear?

2. Become a Christian again?

3. Ignore it? Ask yourself why you are assigning such a high confidence level to numerology? 

 

Did you have some reasons that you don't believe in Christianity anymore? Are they maybe more important than bible letters that can be spun to any meaning you desire? I am pretty sure with the correct (and meaningless) mathematics I can reduce any book of the bible down to the word "nonsense." 

 

I notice sometimes I obsess about something: What if X happens? OMG! And then freeze at that point. It has been helpful to think beyond that. 

 

Does Jesus really do anything here on earth? Like appear? Why would we think he is going to be more motivated upon our death?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, I don't know. I distanced myself from (fundamentalist) christianity because of fears it caused, so I don't know if getting closer again would do me any good (not to mention the impact of my family life).

On the other hand, getting fears and thoughts like this out of my head is really, really hard for me and probably will take time. It's always easier if I find some argument to convince myself that there's an alternative, "harmless" explanation.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

7 hours ago, pck said:

 

On the other hand, getting fears and thoughts like this out of my head is really, really hard for me and probably will take time. It's always easier if I find some argument to convince myself that there's an alternative, "harmless" explanation.

 

If you do a study of the history of God's and religions, you might decide they all fall into at least 3 categories.  Myths, philosophies, and superstitions, and decide to trust your own judgement about living your life.   At 78 years of age I have decided there are no magic answers "out there."

[Myrkhoos]

21 hours ago, pck said:

I never heard of that "Pi and e" in the bible-thing before, but now that I've read about it, it makes me feel very anxious, too. The site I found with the calculations also addresses the skeptics (http://en.daniel1210.com/epi/06/), and it's really hard for me to tackle those arguments.

Please read my post before. Stop thinking numerology in the Bible means very much.If you cannot stop thinking consider checking out various mental health professionals because anxiety around bible numerology sounds more like ocd than any serious theological argument.  

[Myrkhoos]

Like the protestant bible has 66 books. 666 is the number of the devil. There are  six major reformers in the 16 century - Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Arminius , Tyndake and Servetus from six nations. So the reformation was clearly the product of the devil.

[pck]

3 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

Please read my post before. Stop thinking numerology in the Bible means very much.If you cannot stop thinking consider checking out various mental health professionals because anxiety around bible numerology sounds more like ocd than any serious theological argument.  

 

Yes, you're right, I do suffer from OCD and started to take SSRI again a week ago because it seemed to get worse (that was before I read about this e and pi thing). The OCD might be the cause I feel so anxious and can't stop thinking about it, but I'm not sure if I could have ignored this problem without OCD.

[pck]

I wanted to share this link because I found it a bit comforting, although it only deals with Pi in Genesis and not e in John:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190117102746/https://sguforums.com/index.php?topic=16857.0

 

The author of that thread claims to have written a small script that does similar calculations with works of Shakespeare, where he also found approximations of Pi (with some powers of 10).

[Myrkhoos]

1 hour ago, pck said:

 

Yes, you're right, I do suffer from OCD and started to take SSRI again a week ago because it seemed to get worse (that was before I read about this e and pi thing). The OCD might be the cause I feel so anxious and can't stop thinking about it, but I'm not sure if I could have ignored this problem without OCD.

I am 99.99 sure you would have easily ignored it without ocd. My argument is simple. 99.99 of bible believing christians have no idea of this numerology stuff, there is no mention of it in any theological writing I have ever heard of and sounds a lot like far out religious conspiracy theories I would have dismissed as demonic distraction back when I was a christian. 

      By the way may some sort of meditative practice could help your OCD. As in stop engaging with these thoughts altogether and just observe them and let them pass.

[Wertbag]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:02 AM, pck said:

The site I found with the calculations also addresses the skeptics (http://en.daniel1210.com/epi/06/), and it's really hard for me to tackle those arguments.

He starts off insulting his readers, a terrible idea if you want to convince anyone as they are instantly put on the defensive and dislike the writer from the start. 

 

He complains about the precision of the results "the level of precision of π in Genesis 1:1 is of one part in 200.000." which completely ignores the fact that the result is not pi. Go passed a few decimal places and its incorrect. If I owed you $10, gave you $9 and said I'm 90% accurate, would you be happy? 

 

He doesn't touch on the more obvious objection; why use that formula at all?

 

He then adds in special pleading "precisely in these two verses that are so special" where you know if it had been other verses he would have thought those were special. What part of a holy book wouldn't be considered special? By setting up the situation as specific he can then claim its too unlikely to be a coincidence. But look at it this way; there are 31,102 verses in the bible, times 100 different equations that could be used giving 3 million possible answers. Dig through a pile that large to see if any two look similar. Now, having worked backwards, claim victory that some arbitrary numbers were found, using arbitrary equations, in arbitrary locations, selected for arbitrary reasons. 

 

The equation for John 1:1 only works in Greek, but most scholars seem to say the book would have been written in Aramaic. 

 

The writer then goes on a rant about abiogenesis, basically the complexity argument done in insulting form. Of course that is irrelevant to any discussion on biblical codes. 

[Wertbag]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:02 AM, pck said:

 

Ugh, double post. Can't see an option to delete a post? 

[TruthSeeker0]

8 hours ago, Myrkhoos said:

I am 99.99 sure you would have easily ignored it without ocd. My argument is simple. 99.99 of bible believing christians have no idea of this numerology stuff, there is no mention of it in any theological writing I have ever heard of and sounds a lot like far out religious conspiracy theories I would have dismissed as demonic distraction back when I was a christian. 

      By the way may some sort of meditative practice could help your OCD. As in stop engaging with these thoughts altogether and just observe them and let them pass.

Agreed. Mindfulness practice can help you live in the present and overcome the OCD to a certain extent - there's many online resources and even courses online now through public library access. I just discovered that Kanopy has many of the Great Courses. 

[pck]

Thank you for all your replies and support. Today was a relatively good day in terms of anxiety and fear, though it keeps coming back once in a while. I still hard for me to stop thinking about the issue.

I'm afraid I don't have access to Kanopy - at least not that I know. I recently found some stuff on OCD treatment on YouTube, I'll have a look if I find more.

[Steviejay]

In the Bible substitute the words God, Lord, Saviour etc for the words Satan, Devil, the evil one etc and you may start to get the picture.

 

No LOVING god would write such a confussing, horible, violent, nasty, murderous, unjust book that sends people to an eternal hell of suffering for finite sins (eg sending charity workers, Doctors, Nurses to HELL)

 

I know this goes against the grain of this website but now assume that there maybe a god, a designer, creator of this wondorous universe but that it DEFINITELY ISN'T BIBLE GOD .....and this designer chooses not to show himself to any of us

 

Now assume that the Bible and maybe othe religions are the work of something evil instead. For instance if you were a christian then you must know that SATAN has the same info as god so he knows what pi and e are, he knows the future, he loves riddles and deception...why would a loving god hide everything behind metaphors and codes unless it was to fool the people into thinking that they are the chosen and devine, why would a god demand such arrogant worship of himself, surely that's the same traits as the DEVIL and BIBLE GOD cast him out of heaven for the same arrogance...Maybe SATAN inspired the Bible instead and as he is supposed to be the "grand master of deception" he has managed to pull the biggest deception of all and fool billions of people with his book, and it worked

 

In summary don't just think the book is "good" because it has a little bit of truth and a bit of mathmatics in it. The vast majority of the book is based on half truths and lies, false history, contradictions SO CANNOT BE FROM THE GOD THAT YOU WERE LED TO BELIEVE IN. It is therefore more likely to be inspired by evil disguising itself as good. How many xtians make all sorts of excuses for the horrible bits of the bible when there is no excuse, such as slavery, killing 1st born, killing innocent animals, raping virgin women in the book of Numbers and Joshua and how many just ignore these parts, cherry pick the "good" bits and then use lame excuses for the evil bits by claiming Jesus was the NEW COVERNANT (very convenient for them, any excuse will do) but it's exactly the same as Hitler coming back and then claiming he's changed so the holocaust doesn't matter anymore and his followers claiming that all those murders in the 1940's are now irrelevant

 

The truth is the book is not GOOD and therefore should not be excepted or followed by any caring, compassionate, loving or kind member of society otherwise you might then find that you will be judged for being fooled and excepting it's evil as being just and righteous (like all xtians do...crazy fools) , therefore falling under the spell of JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED. In other words they have no problems with all the people murdered and put into slavery in the OT as if it was just and right (because god says so)....So they have now judged others from the past as an irrelevance so when they die they obviously will have no problem being judged the same way by being murdered themselves and put into slavery in the afterlife because they were told JUDGE NO LEST YE BE JUDGED......I hope this gives you a slight insight into just how dangerous the Bible might be if you continue to except its poison words

 

ONE MORE EXAMPLE of why the Bible could be very dangerous to except or believe is truth......How many times have you heard xtians say that "there is no second chance if you die in sin, it's too late, you had your chance on earth and YOU rejected OUR Jesus, off to hell you go, now toddle along the lakes over there, burn forever you unbelieving scum bag. If you get it wrong on this side then tough shit there is no 2nd chance for you or forgiveness for being WRONG"...................................Xtians, if they are wrong which they most probably are may then have to face another god on the other side who then says "You told people on earth that they had no 2nd chance if they didn't believe or except your doctrine and you even condemned them the worst and most evil place immaginable, HELL...Well mate you're the one that got it completely wrong and i'm going to have to judge you the same way as you judged people on earth just for not excepting your silly, evil book.....off you toddle, the lakes over there"

 

I know i've been very DEEP but i'm trying to point out just how dangerous believing and following the Bible may be, and people don't see the danger simply because they believe arrongantly, without a shred of real evidence that their way is the ONLY way.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Steviejay, the part about Satan being a master deceiver and inspiring the Bible got a chuckle from me.  First time I heard that one.

[Steviejay]

42 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Steviejay, the part about Satan being a master deceiver and inspiring the Bible got a chuckle from me.  First time I heard that one.

 

I know. The Bible seems to of fooled us all at some stage in our life by thinking it was inspired by God but this, so called God murdered 2.5 million people in the Bible, many of them innocent people, and that's not including the flood. Remember the guy he killed just because he tried to save the Arc of the covenant from falling over...pure evil...

 

Also when the Bible talks about love it's all based on conditional love. Love me, or else

 

If Satan was real, then he's managed to pull the biggest scam ever. And he's also managed to get people to think that having faith is a virtue, when in actual fact basing things on faith, instead of evidence is the most stupid thing mankind has ever done and as we know people will always hurt others because of what they selfishly believe or even go as far as kill for their faith

[Steviejay]

On 5/1/2020 at 11:31 AM, Myrkhoos said:

Like the protestant bible has 66 books. 666 is the number of the devil. There are  six major reformers in the 16 century - Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, Arminius , Tyndake and Servetus from six nations. So the reformation was clearly the product of the devil.

 

Correct. Also the name Jesus was actually pronounced "hey-sus" and still is in Spain today. Jesus (gee-zus) is the name ONLY spoken in English speaking countries and is a relatively new name that xtians dont seem to realise. 

 

Now speak this spoken word "heysus" (Jesus) to a Hebrew (gods chosen language) and "heysus" literally means "the horse" and not Jesus.....this next bit you can also check on the internet... in Hebrew the first part of the word pronounced "hey" has no number value because it means "the" but the 2nd part of the spoken word pronounced  "sus" meaning "horse" is 60660 in hebrew. In Hebrew the zeros are always removed leaving the numbers 666

 

Rev: It is the number of a man who will fool people by performing great miracles

 

Sound familiar 

[Steviejay]

We all worry about the doctrine (abuse) we were fed as a child and find it hard to shake off these fears. Hell taunts many ex christians even now. An atheist who has never been brought up in a religious environment doesn't even worry about a place called Hell. Do you go to bed worrying about the Muslim or Hindu Hell or that the Quran also has secret codes.....I doubt you lose a minutes sleep worrying about it but Muslims and Hindu's will because that's what they were battered with as a child

 

this video always helps bring reality to the situation

 

A circle code pi and a Log code e doesn't prove god wrote the Bible but people are always fooled in thinking so because it's a little bit clever

But what about Satan, He's clever....what about a greek, Egyption mathematician, they were very clever......anyone of these could be the inspiration behind it.......to be honest the Bible comes out with loads more nonesense than it does actual facts

 

People always claim that the OT prophecies predict the NT but to believe that one has to believe that the stories in the NT all happened are were true.
The NT wasn't put together until around 325 AD. so let's suppose that Jesus didn't exist, or his followers, and the lack of evidence does point exactly to this fact.....That means the NT was a story book written by people who had read the OT so made the NT sories were made to FIT the stories (prophecies) from the OT....Just like Harry Potter 2 being a follow up to Harry Potter 1.........No prophecy needed, just a good story writer to continue the story...PLEASE DON'T LET US BE FOOLED BY OUR PARENTS INDOCTRINATION JUST BECAUSE THEY SO HAPPENED TO OF BEEN BORN IN A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY RATHER THAN A MUSLIM OR HINDU COUNTRY. IF OUR PARENTS HAD BEEN BORN IN IRAN THEY'D BE MUSLIM

[TruthSeeker0]

10 hours ago, Steviejay said:

 

I know. The Bible seems to of fooled us all at some stage in our life by thinking it was inspired by God but this, so called God murdered 2.5 million people in the Bible, many of them innocent people, and that's not including the flood. Remember the guy he killed just because he tried to save the Arc of the covenant from falling over...pure evil...

I believe @Margee once posted a very thorough list of Bible God and his many crimes, maybe that would be of some assistance here? 

 

[Margee]

2 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I believe @Margee once posted a very thorough list of Bible God and his many crimes, maybe that would be of some assistance here? 

 

I believe that I got all that information from this site:  https://www.evilbible.com/

 

Hope that helps!! 

[SarahJaneSmith]

21 minutes ago, Margee said:

I believe that I got all that information from this site:  https://www.evilbible.com/

 

Hope that helps!! 

Ooh, thanks!