Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SeaJay

I found it!

Recommended Posts

Thought insertion! 

 

Do you remember my posts about believing I've been told I am going to hell and how it caused me so much terrifying anxiety, how I would think I was having thoughts telling me I have committed such terrible things that I was eternally damned?

 

www.ex-christian.net/topic/76626-hello/

 

Well, therapist after therapist told me you are experiencing "intrusive thoughts" and I argued I was not. An intrusive thought is when (for example) you might be driving along in the car and you think "What if I just, steered into that person and killed them?" (it's just an example). I would say, that's not true because with an intrusive thought, the 'thinker' is fully aware that they are having that thought - they know it is them - thinking that thought. Whereas I might be washing dishes or mowing the lawn, and suddenly a thought would pop into my mind that, well, the details don't matter, only that the thought would fighten me because I did not put the thought there. 

 

Thought insertion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_insertion

 

"Thought insertion is defined by the ICD-10 as feeling as if one's thoughts are not one's own, but rather belong to someone else and have been inserted into one's mind. The person experiencing thought insertion will not necessarily know where the thought is coming from, but makes a distinction between their own thoughts and those inserted into their minds."

 

Examples of thought insertion:

 

·         She said that sometimes it seemed to be her own thought 'but I don't get the feeling that it is'. She said her 'own thoughts might say the same thing', 'but the feeling isn't the same', 'the feeling is that it is somebody else's.'

 

·         I look out the window and I think that the garden looks nice and the grass looks cool, but the thoughts of Eamonn Andrews come into my mind (my edit: of "This is Your Life" t.v. fame). There are no other thoughts there, only his [sic]. He treats my mind like a screen and flashes thoughts onto it like you flash a picture.

 

·         The subject has thoughts that she thinks are the thoughts of other people, somehow occurring in her own mind

 

After nearly 10 years (granted not all of that time) I have finally found out what I have been experiencing. Of course, with my anxiety, I still think, "but how do I know these thoughts are coming from me?". Still, it's reassuring to know there is something out there which looks identical to what I have been experiencing. 

 

Just wanted to share that I have at least found some mental issue that feels almost exactly like the one I have experienced over the last 10 years. It might help others. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SeaJay said:

 

After nearly 10 years (granted not all of that time) I have finally found out what I have been experiencing. Of course, with my anxiety, I still think, "but how do I know these thoughts are coming from me?". Still, it's reassuring to know there is something out there which looks identical to what I have been experiencing. 

 

Just wanted to share that I have at least found some mental issue that feels almost exactly like the one I have experienced over the last 10 years. It might help others. 

 

 

Seajay, I hope this has helped you and maybe eased your fears to some extent.  I’ve wondered how you’re doing and I’m glad you checked in with us.  Hang in there, buddy! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks TABA. 

 

The trouble is I tend to frequent here 'only' when I am feeling terrible (that said, I am doing ok right now). That might be selfish of me because I don't otherwise interact with others (but that's another issue I have - chronic social anxiety). That said, I will always be thankful for the help and assistance I have had from here. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SeaJay said:

Thanks TABA. 

 

The trouble is I tend to frequent here 'only' when I am feeling terrible (that said, I am doing ok right now). That might be selfish of me because I don't otherwise interact with others (but that's another issue I have - chronic social anxiety). That said, I will always be thankful for the help and assistance I have had from here. 

 

 

 

So maybe it would help you to hang out here more regularly?  You don’t have to be an active contributor, but I think just reading and soaking up the ‘vibe’ of this place has helped cement our deconversions for many of us, and made us more and more comfortable in our new world-view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks TABA, I might try to get to know the posters more. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SeaJay said:

Thought insertion! 

 

Do you remember my posts about believing I've been told I am going to hell and how it caused me so much terrifying anxiety, how I would think I was having thoughts telling me I have committed such terrible things that I was eternally damned?

 

www.ex-christian.net/topic/76626-hello/

 

Well, therapist after therapist told me you are experiencing "intrusive thoughts" and I argued I was not. An intrusive thought is when (for example) you might be driving along in the car and you think "What if I just, steered into that person and killed them?" (it's just an example). I would say, that's not true because with an intrusive thought, the 'thinker' is fully aware that they are having that thought - they know it is them - thinking that thought. Whereas I might be washing dishes or mowing the lawn, and suddenly a thought would pop into my mind that, well, the details don't matter, only that the thought would frighten me because I did not put the thought there. 

 

Thought insertion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_insertion

 

"Thought insertion is defined by the ICD-10 as feeling as if one's thoughts are not one's own, but rather belong to someone else and have been inserted into one's mind. The person experiencing thought insertion will not necessarily know where the thought is coming from, but makes a distinction between their own thoughts and those inserted into their minds."

 

Examples of thought insertion:

 

·         She said that sometimes it seemed to be her own thought 'but I don't get the feeling that it is'. She said her 'own thoughts might say the same thing', 'but the feeling isn't the same', 'the feeling is that it is somebody else's.'

 

·         I look out the window and I think that the garden looks nice and the grass looks cool, but the thoughts of Eamonn Andrews come into my mind (my edit: of "This is Your Life" t.v. fame). There are no other thoughts there, only his [sic]. He treats my mind like a screen and flashes thoughts onto it like you flash a picture.

 

·         The subject has thoughts that she thinks are the thoughts of other people, somehow occurring in her own mind

 

After nearly 10 years (granted not all of that time) I have finally found out what I have been experiencing. Of course, with my anxiety, I still think, "but how do I know these thoughts are coming from me?". Still, it's reassuring to know there is something out there which looks identical to what I have been experiencing. 

 

Just wanted to share that I have at least found some mental issue that feels almost exactly like the one I have experienced over the last 10 years. It might help others. 

 

Thinking is great. Nothing can be accomplished without it. But in Psychology overthinking can cause strife, such a worrying too much for instance. I expect that intrusive thoughts might be another example that might take practice to control. Bizarre intrusive thoughts are quite common. The deal is that intrusive thoughts come and go but if weird or valueless don't dwell on them.

 

In psychology "Intrusive thoughts are thoughts that enter your consciousness, often without warning or prompting, with content that is alarming, disturbing, or just flat-out weird. They're thoughts we all have at some point, but for some people, these thoughts get “stuck” and cause great distress (Seif & Winston, 2018)."

 

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk03qGnINGjnqBhDpLLvB5OwEoorxnw%3A1587312448761&source=hp&ei=QHecXqGMLNbb-wSBk6vgCQ&q=psychology+intrusive+thoughts&oq=psychology+intrusi&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQARgAMgIIADIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeMgYIABAWEB4yBQgAEM0COgUIABCDAToFCAAQkQJQ2wxY_UJg51xoAXAAeACAAagBiAHWC5IBBDE3LjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Pantheory. For years I thought I suffered from intrusive thoughts (as you imply, we all do to certain extents), but today I found out my issues are with Thought Insertions. I mean, I get intrusive thoughts too, but today was about finding out I also have thought insertions (or TIs as they are called). Similar to audible halluciantions, but without the actual audible voices. Similar, but not exactly so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey SeaJay! 

 

I like the scientific approach your taking towards self analysis. Split personalities seem to follow this general trend too.

 

One issue that I see here coming from the meditation side of things, is that all thoughts can be viewed as intrusive and inserted. This is when someone meditates and observes their entire stream of thoughts as brain activity. Steady. Constant and continuous brain activity produces steams of ongoing thoughts all the time. But then there's taking a step back and seeing yourself not as these steady, ongoing streams of brain activity thoughts flashing by all the time, but as the observer further down below that level, observing the thoughts going by. This is a basic understanding in meditation. Where the you are the observer of the thoughts, you are not the thoughts themselves. It's difference in perspective of what one then considers to be, "you." 

 

At that point, all thoughts are intrusive and inserted by that standard. By brain activity in general. And the thought patterns are being observed by the awareness or consciousness which is observing the stream of brain activity produced thoughts constantly zipping by all the time. And it's perfectly fine and natural. No alarm. No influence outside of your own mind. In a way, it all has to be you. Your brain zipping thought patterns and the conscious aspect observing them zip by all the time. 

 

It's all natural, it's just differentiating between the steady stream activities of the brain versus the observing, conscious awareness taking place deeper down at a more core or fundamental level of our experience.

 

I'm not sure how helpful this sort of meditation practice would be for your condition. But if the therapists haven't discussed it then maybe you could bring up how this seems to correspond to what people are trying to achieve through meditation concerning all thought as intrusive and inserted in general. The idea to stand back and not identify the stream of thoughts as you. You are the observer of the thoughts. That seems like something that could help in your situation. 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Joshpantera Absolutely. I used to do quite a lot of meditation, I once got to the point where I was sitting for 45 minutes - which for me, was quite the achievement. And it's correct that if you can recognise you are just the observer of 'the' thoughts and not in fact, the thoughts themselves, that puts distance between the two, and that can be therapeutic. It sounds easy to do, but quite difficult in practice. 

 

Just watch what arises, and let it go without passing judgement. I've been meaning to start up my meditation again (it's been way too long since I have done so), and now seems a good a time as any. 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi @SeaJay Thanks for stopping by and letting us know how you are doing. I have often wondered how you are. Glad to see you are fighting fit and making progress.

 

I think it's a good idea to start meditation again. It's got some very good evidence behind the mental health benefits of meditating. Everyone should do it IMO.

 

As always, we are always here if you need to chat.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks LogicalFallacy, I appreciate it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.