God without Religion?

[freshstart]

46 minutes ago, Georgia said:

Can you give me an example of the science that disproves many Christian beliefs? Are we talking about theories of science that have also not been 100% proven but are main theories that you are taught to believe as fact? 

 

What makes you think that what your shown on TV, told in documentaries, the news, governements etc is correct? Can you personally prove the science you speak of to be correct? Have you completed the experiments yourself or have you just been told ? 

 

If your an ex believer I presume you've read the bible, if so you will know that not only God exists but also Satan. He is the master deceiver and will appear as a bright light- be careful what you believe. You might say I am silly for having blind faith in the father, but consider your blind faith in mankind, government, scientist etc can you honestly say you trust those who are in control? 

 

Georgia,

Oh I see the onus is upon me to "personally prove science," but I'm expected to believe - without any evidence whatsoever -  that "God and Satan exist," because 1 book says so. Keep in mind that for my "blind faith" in "mankind, government, and and scientists," I can show you all of those things. But for your "blind faith in the father," you have nothing to show.

I dont think you are here to seriously inquire. I think you're here to preach.  I'm not the mood to listen.

[TruthSeeker0]

9 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

Hello True Seeker 

 

Sorry,  I should made myself clear- 

 

Please respect me as a person. I have been on here before and been called stupid and ignorant and alot worse than that!! 

 

I know y'all don't believe so I am expecting opposing views but just be kind with it

 

Yes it does sound silly asking an atheist If they would believe in God with religion because you don't believe at all!! However, I think u get my drift? 

Nope, not at all. There's no "father" for atheists so asking them about considering a relationship with one (at least as you define father) makes zero sense. 

9 hours ago, Georgia said:

I am keen to see if it's the mechanisms of the religion which has turned people away or because they found knowledge else where. This is ex Christian.net so I presume you all once did believe

 

Thanks 

My eyes were opened. For many it was a combination of factors. Some were pushed for reasons and then started reading and learning and how the hell can you believe with all the evidence piled a mile high in front of you. Other factors in the church are meaningless in comparison to that mountain of evidence. So while you may be looking for mechanisms, whatever those may be, consider the core doctrines of what you believe and what that says about the "loving kindness" of your god. 

[TruthSeeker0]

1 hour ago, freshstart said:

 

Georgia,

Oh I see the onus is upon me to "personally prove science," but I'm expected to believe - without any evidence whatsoever -  that "God and Satan exist," because 1 book says so. Keep in mind that for my "blind faith" in "mankind, government, and and scientists," I can show you all of those things. But for your "blind faith in the father," you have nothing to show.

I dont think you are here to seriously inquire. I think you're here to preach.  I'm not the mood to listen.

Georgia is here to preach. Georgia are you aware there are now hundreds of testimonies that you could datamine which would answer your question? Why is it that you must insist on dialogue when you could be reading the testimonies section - the answers are all there. 

[TruthSeeker0]

3 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

It's a horrible horrible thought I know, but so is decaying into the ground and ceasing to exist after everything with no purpose. 

^^ here it is. You believe because you're motivated to believe, and because you think life without afterlife has no purpose. In fact you even compared no consciousness to eternal torment. Only someone who has been brainwashed can do that - compare the existence of eternal endless suffering to no suffering at all. 

 

If I may paraphrase @florduh, religion is an emotional hook. 

 

[Geezer]

Georgia, I was a very involved Christian for 47 years. I’m sure I understand the concept of faith. I’ve never regretted leaving the faith and I’ve never considered returning to the faith I left many years ago.

 

 

[TruthSeeker0]

 

4 hours ago, Georgia said:

I chose the father any day,  the world brought me insecurity, heartache, pain, confusion and distress. I find peace with the father not in the world. 

 

I hope you find the same

 

 

 

Oh I did. When I left religion

 

"The world" has brought me a joy and peace I never had before. I'm glad I no longer need to demonize it for fruitless reasons. 

[SarahJaneSmith]

I’m with @TruthSeeker0. My anxiety drastically decreased when I dropped supernatural belief. I also appreciate the life I have much more than I did before. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Georgia, 

I will somewhat repeat myself from a previous post, but here it is again.

It seems to me your beliefs are inconsistent in a sense.  You believe God has always existed, but the universe has not.  If it is possible for one thing to be infinite (god), why is it not possible that something else can be Infinite?  If everything has to be created, who created God?  

 

There may be some "dimension" we are not aware of yet, but after decades of study, I have absolutely no faith that it is the god we read about in the Bible. 

 

As a Christian I was confused with the inconsistency and prayed to God to help me find truth----where ever that might lead.  For some reason I was "led" to agnosticism.  How did we end up with different conclusions?  Were you wanting the truth?  Or a specific outcome?

 

You want purpose? Look to nature.  It is in one word.  LIFE.  Is it possible that to promote life to it's fullest for everyone, as much as possible, is our purpose?  Jesus reportedly even made a statement to that effect.  Something to the effect of,  "I have come to promote life, and more abundantly."  And part of the "greatest commandment" he gave was to love neighbor as self.  To me that is at the core of our purpose.  

[WalterP]

9 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

Thank you.  I see she is now turning towards her subjectivity....which I happen to agree with.  I'm sure Walter will put her in her place and demand she abide by one of his rules.  He really is a reincarnation of BAA...  Let's watch and find out.  Tune in tomorrow, same BAT time, same BAT channel....

 

Thank you for the compliment Edgarcito.

 

BAA is a good role model for me and a hard act to follow.

 

The rules you speak about aren't mine btw.  They exist in logical debate, in law, in science, in philosophy and in this forum too. 

 

I'm not the one closing down your threads because you won't abide by the rules the moderators expect you to follow.  

 

So please, no more about MY RULES.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[WalterP]

9 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

 

Hey Walter! 

 

What a cool name!

 

I understand that a subjective view is hard to deal with, well because it's subjective and personal to me only! However, what I will say on this point is this is where I believe the faith deepens and I would advise anybody (bair with me, I'm not evangelising!!) to pursue their own personal relationship with the father to receive the evidence they need to check and investigate for themselves. I am a very stubborn person, my journey  into faith had to be specific to me so I was able to find the truth my way to help develop a strong belief not based on anybody else's influence but only the fathers. I was shown what I needed to see to open my heart to "christ"- yes this is subjective but a personal relationship with the father and messiah is the most important thing. So let's not dismiss a subjective experience they are all extremely important. 

 

In terms of objective evidence, I would refer to my other comment about existence, the amazing design of all life forms and the notion that all of this happened by chance and through extremely complex natural processes for absolutely no reason at all. 

 

 

 

Hello again Georgia and thanks for your reply.

 

I happen to live within an hours drive of mosques, synagogues and Sikh temples and I've visited and spoken with the Muslims, Jews and Sikhs who worship in these places.  They all make the same kind of argument as you've made here. They believe that the amazing design of the universe points to the existence of Allah, Yahweh and the Sikh God.  

 

So, could you help me understand two things please?

 

Besides your subjective belief, what makes you right and them wrong about the identity of God?  This is vitally important because the penalty for failing to correctly identify and believe in the right God is an eternity of suffering in blazing fire and brimstone.  Thank you.

 

Secondly, could you please help me understand exactly which item of evidence from the creation points specifically to Jesus Christ being the one and true creator and messiah?  I ask because telling me you believe this to be so is another of your subjective beliefs, which is, of course, something you cannot share with me.  Please point me to something I can test, check and examine for myself.  

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[Astreja]

9 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

[Hell is] a horrible horrible thought I know, but so is decaying into the ground and ceasing to exist after everything with no purpose. 

 

No, the concept of hell is definitely worse.  Once we're dead, brain science strongly suggests that we simply don't experience any of the things happening to our bodies.  In order for us to experience hell, your god would have to deliberately reconstruct the neural networks that existed in our physical bodies and that died with us.  That is utterly inexcusable -- reviving someone specifically to torture them.

[Astreja]

8 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

Hey Geezer! 

I am suprised to see that so many ex-christians are not familiar with the notion of faith.

 

Oh, I assure you that I am familiar with the notion of faith.  I'm just not able to feel it in a religious sense.

 

Quote

Yes, you believe without seeing all of the facts. I presume you all have read the bible, even people who apparently witnessed miracles that "christ" performed...

 

I see those stories as fictional, not historical.

 

Quote

What is a "rational path" to God?

 

Encountering a god-like being in the real world, not in events or thoughts or stories but the actual being itself.  Anything else can be misconstrued, imagined, or faked.

[mwc]

12 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

I don't adhere to any denomination of "Christianity", I don't do rituals, I communicate with the father as I would anybody else- I talk to him. Prayer does not require a ritual, I speak to the father through out the day no matter what I am doing. In absence of the bible or any leader of a church, I communicate with my heart and through faith. 

 

 

 

     Why are you talking about denominations?  I never mentioned them.  I simply mentioned belief in a deity as being a requirement as a religion but given all you has said I felt that you might disagree with that, perhaps being too broad, so I went on to say that you might feel that religion is something that includes rites and rituals.  The reality is that nailing down what constitutes religion is next to impossible but it seems like it's what is required.  Knowing what religion is so we can know what it is we are to be without it seems key to this thread.

 

     I mentioned prayers because they are often used in a ritual fashion.  They have a form and function although this is not required.  Most often you'll see someone open and close a prayer in ritual fashion such as "dear lord" (or similar) and close in "in jesus name" (again, or similar) even when just making casual prayer throughout the day.  They rarely talk to god as "a friend" like "Hey guy" and "later" and never does anyone talk shit to god when they're feeling in a particularly fun mood as in "What's up shithead?"  He's no ones good buddy.

 

     If you're lacking the "leader of a church" what do you have?  It sounds like a church still exists?  Just informally so?  So communion?  Things of this nature?

 

          mwc

 

[Georgia]

Just to reiterate, I am not here to preach or to try to convert anybody. I have been asked questions about my beliefs and have answered them. If you feel my responses have been "preachy" then apologies, it's honestly not my intention. 

 

A few of you have suggested that I just read the other forum topics instead of asking my own questions- No, I wanted to start my own thread to have my own conversations. I have been respectful of the rules and to each person who has commented. I will continue to ask my questions and have my discussions regardless of what everybody else has already spoken about. You don't have to join the thread if you've already had the discussion. 

 

Thanks!! 

 

Hope you all have a great day it's almost 2pm here in London, UK and the sun is out for once!!!

 

 

[florduh]

9 minutes ago, Georgia said:

Just to reiterate, I am not here to preach or to try to convert anybody. I have been asked questions about my beliefs and have answered them. If you feel my responses have been "preachy" then apologies, it's honestly not my intention. 

 

A few of you have suggested that I just read the other forum topics instead of asking my own questions- No, I wanted to start my own thread to have my own conversations. I have been respectful of the rules and to each person who has commented. I will continue to ask my questions and have my discussions regardless of what everybody else has already spoken about. You don't have to join the thread if you've already had the discussion. 

 

Thanks!! 

 

Hope you all have a great day it's almost 2pm here in London, UK and the sun is out for once!!!

 

 

 

I don't know what you were expecting. Perhaps an exchange such as "I believe in some of the stuff in the Bible" with a response, "Well, I don't."

 

Sorry, if you make extraordinary claims and espouse fantastic beliefs you will be asked to support your position. So far it seems you dismiss hard evidence and don't understand what science is and thereby simply choose to believe improbable things for no reason.

[Georgia]

3 hours ago, mwc said:

     Why are you talking about denominations?  I never mentioned them.  I simply mentioned belief in a deity as being a requirement as a religion but given all you has said I felt that you might disagree with that, perhaps being too broad, so I went on to say that you might feel that religion is something that includes rites and rituals.  The reality is that nailing down what constitutes religion is next to impossible but it seems like it's what is required.  Knowing what religion is so we can know what it is we are to be without it seems key to this thread.

 

     I mentioned prayers because they are often used in a ritual fashion.  They have a form and function although this is not required.  Most often you'll see someone open and close a prayer in ritual fashion such as "dear lord" (or similar) and close in "in jesus name" (again, or similar) even when just making casual prayer throughout the day.  They rarely talk to god as "a friend" like "Hey guy" and "later" and never does anyone talk shit to god when they're feeling in a particularly fun mood as in "What's up shithead?"  He's no ones good buddy.

 

     If you're lacking the "leader of a church" what do you have?  It sounds like a church still exists?  Just informally so?  So communion?  Things of this nature?

 

          mwc

 

 

Hi MWC! 

 

Sorry I shouldn't have mentioned denominations as you didn't mention it. Let me clear, when I use the term religion I am referring to being a part of mainstream system of faith. Engaging in practices within a congregation and following the elders in the church.

 

I communicate with the father throughout the day, I speak to him with respect as I would do my own father. I have very casual conversations like I would do with my friend. I feel that lots of Christians are missing this and will only pray in a regimented fashion just resiting words and not really feeling it. Again, something that "jesus" warned against. 

 

I am no longer part of a church congregation so I no longer take part in communion. 

[Georgia]

3 minutes ago, florduh said:

 

I don't know what you were expecting. Perhaps an exchange such as "I believe in some of the stuff in the Bible" with a response, "Well, I don't."

 

Sorry, if you make extraordinary claims and espouse fantastic beliefs you will be asked to support your position. So far it seems you dismiss hard evidence and don't understand what science is and thereby simply choose to believe improbable things for no reason.

 

Hi

 

The forum is called the Lions Den! I knew exactly what I was getting into when I posted here. 

 

But what I don't understand is why people feel I am preaching haha, you know I am a believer so my responses will be that way inclined. What do you guys expect?  I'm going to talk about "God" so don't misinterpret that for me trying to preach!! Said it countless times!! It's not my intention.. 

 

What science have I dismissed? I have said some of the greatest scientist's of our time have been believers.. science is the observation of the natural world, through testing etc.. I believe the father is the grand designer- scientists are just uncovering his magnificent work. 

 

Someone asked me if I would accept the science against the existence of God and I asked what science? Please show me, we must also remember that scientific theory is what dominates, many many things are not proven but taught to you as if it's fact.

 

You question religion and if God exists, do you question if your government is telling you the truth about life and it's origins? 

[Georgia]

4 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

Oh, I assure you that I am familiar with the notion of faith.  I'm just not able to feel it in a religious sense.

 

 

I see those stories as fictional, not historical.

 

 

Encountering a god-like being in the real world, not in events or thoughts or stories but the actual being itself.  Anything else can be misconstrued, imagined, or faked.

 

Hey 

 

Do you mind explaining what you mean by not being able to feel it in a religious sense?  I find that really interesting

 

I made the point about the story of faith but that is what is required of you. If you don't have that level of faith as described then you may not experience a full relationship with the father--- I say that with caution, I'm sure you all have your own stories on this. 

 

[mwc]

22 minutes ago, Georgia said:

 

Hi MWC! 

 

Sorry I shouldn't have mentioned denominations as you didn't mention it. Let me clear, when I use the term religion I am referring to being a part of mainstream system of faith. Engaging in practices within a congregation and following the elders in the church.

 

I communicate with the father throughout the day, I speak to him with respect as I would do my own father. I have very casual conversations like I would do with my friend. I feel that lots of Christians are missing this and will only pray in a regimented fashion just resiting words and not really feeling it. Again, something that "jesus" warned against. 

 

I am no longer part of a church congregation so I no longer take part in communion. 

     I see.  So you're just what might be called "unchurched?"  I'd be tempted to call you a "none," since you seem eager to want to fall into that sort of category, but you seem to most closely self-identify as xian (which, I hate to tell you, is a religion whether or not you practice any of the rites and rituals however one might interpret them).

 

          mwc

 

[Georgia]

4 hours ago, Astreja said:

 

No, the concept of hell is definitely worse.  Once we're dead, brain science strongly suggests that we simply don't experience any of the things happening to our bodies.  In order for us to experience hell, your god would have to deliberately reconstruct the neural networks that existed in our physical bodies and that died with us.  That is utterly inexcusable -- reviving someone specifically to torture them.

 

It's horrible- I can't pretend that's it's not. But that doesn't mean it's not true, because you don't like how it sounds. But can we be clear, the wages of sin is death- not an eternity of burning in hell fire. Yes you enter the Lake of Fire but you will not burn for an eternity. This something the catholics used to get people to pay their way out of hell. 

 

The principle is the same as we live by on earth- commit a crime and you are punished. You go to prison and cant you even still receive the death penalty in the US? 

 

 

 

 

[Georgia]

I've noticed that some people seemed to be slightly misinformed about what the scripture says. Has everybody here read it all? 

[midniterider]

15 minutes ago, Georgia said:

 

It's horrible- I can't pretend that's it's not. But that doesn't mean it's not true, because you don't like how it sounds. But can we be clear, the wages of sin is death- not an eternity of burning in hell fire. Yes you enter the Lake of Fire but you will not burn for an eternity. This something the catholics used to get people to pay their way out of hell. 

 

The principle is the same as we live by on earth- commit a crime and you are punished. You go to prison and cant you even still receive the death penalty in the US? 

 

 

 

 

 

It's horrible, but only temporary. What a relief. 

[Georgia]

Can you honestly say you trust your government to tell u the truth?

 

Our government in the UK is full of satanic, pedophiles.. have a look at Jon Wedger on YouTube- an ex police man whistle blowing about the Vice team in London. He talks about the sex trafficking and satanic rituals these people are doing. 

 

Things are not as they seem, don't be naive to think they are 

 

[mwc]

15 minutes ago, Georgia said:

I've noticed that some people seemed to be slightly misinformed about what the scripture says. Has everybody here read it all? 

     Be more specific.

 

          mwc

 

[Georgia]

2 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

It's horrible, but only temporary. What a relief. 

 

It's your choice!! Like I said, the principle is the same as the law of the land...do they not still have the death penalty in the US??