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Georgia

God without Religion?

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4 minutes ago, Georgia said:

 

If you were Satan you would show people your plan and expose that the "God" the one who will save us is real and risk people calling to him for help? 

 

 Satan doesn't try to encourage people by fear, he's extremely manipulating and is camouflaged as light. He wins you over not by fear but through carnal pleasure and the ego. 

 

Like that poem of the snake I heard Trump say at some convention, the one about letting the snake into the house? 

 

 

     Wait.  You asked what *I* would do if *I* were Satan and then you say *I* cannot do that?

 

     As Satan there is absolutely no additional risk if I were to appear.  None.  Read the Revelation.  If that's in any way true in the slightest, and I said we're assuming it was for this exercise, then for me to appear in a non-threatening fashion and "pull the curtain back" (so to speak) on the whole thing changes nothing for me at all.  However, faith would be decimated the world over.

 

          mwc

 

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43 minutes ago, Georgia said:

 

My friend- the grand designer, the one who made everything we have and everything we see. Yes, it's his rules. He has set the law- like your state has- you abide by these rules with no question, are you protesting the death penalty? Are you an activist for these people?? If not then you don't do this because it's a concept your used to and accept..

 

If you chose to not follow the rules when you have been gifted life then why should you not be punished? Let's not act like it's hard. Don't kill, steal, cheat etc, don't gossip, be kind to people, don't sleep around- get married, love your neighbour, be happy but catious and appreciate the one who made you.. what else r u looking for ? 

 

If you have children then you will teach them to be good and punish if not. You will tell them consequences but in the end the person will make their own decision. If you don't love the father and don't want to know him,  then why would u share everlasting life with him? You probably wouldn't want to anyway so what's the problem? 

 

Let's not pretend that burning in a lake of fire is the same as a lethal injection. 

 

Would you make a rule that your child would burn in a lake of fire if they did not love you? Would you allow your child to burn in a lake of fire under any circumstance? You are making excuses for monstrous behavior. 

 

You're right, I dont want to share everlasting life with someone who does this...nor with his followers who think it's ok. 

 

There's no problem, really. I'm happy with my beliefs. I am just 'asking questions', like you are. 

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1 hour ago, Georgia said:

Can you honestly say you trust your government to tell u the truth?

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." 

Romans 13:1

 

Of course, I trust the government; and so should you.  😆

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Your comment about satan was funny because you might as well have asked why we aren’t scared of Thor’s judgement. 
 

Personally I spent years studying the bible - it’s precisely the reason I no longer believe. You seem to think if only we would read it with your specific blinders then all would be good. What you’re choosing to ignore is our lives are better without your magical sky daddy. 

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2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God." 

Romans 13:1

 

Of course, I trust the government; and so should you.  😆

     When god inspired that he was being sarcastic.

 

          mwc

 

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“I reject the majority of religious nonsense”


You still haven’t answered what this means. Does this mean you believe the bible is to be taken literally? Does this mean you don’t take the bible literally? This could mean anything but you still haven’t spelled it out, you just keep bringing up distractions.

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Hello Georgia. :)

 

Would you please do me the courtesy of answering the two questions I put to you? 

 

Thank you.  Here's a copy of our dialogue.

 

Hey Walter! 

 

What a cool name! :)

 

I understand that a subjective view is hard to deal with, well because it's subjective and personal to me only! However, what I will say on this point is this is where I believe the faith deepens and I would advise anybody (bair with me, I'm not evangelising!!) to pursue their own personal relationship with the father to receive the evidence they need to check and investigate for themselves. I am a very stubborn person, my journey  into faith had to be specific to me so I was able to find the truth my way to help develop a strong belief not based on anybody else's influence but only the fathers. I was shown what I needed to see to open my heart to "christ"- yes this is subjective but a personal relationship with the father and messiah is the most important thing. So let's not dismiss a subjective experience they are all extremely important. 

 

In terms of objective evidence, I would refer to my other comment about existence, the amazing design of all life forms and the notion that all of this happened by chance and through extremely complex natural processes for absolutely no reason at all. 

 

 

 

Hello again Georgia and thanks for your reply. :)

 

I happen to live within an hours drive of mosques, synagogues and Sikh temples and I've visited and spoken with the Muslims, Jews and Sikhs who worship in these places.  They all make the same kind of argument as you've made here. They believe that the amazing design of the universe points to the existence of Allah, Yahweh and the Sikh God.  

 

So, could you help me understand two things please?

 

Besides your subjective belief, what makes you right and them wrong about the identity of God?  This is vitally important because the penalty for failing to correctly identify and believe in the right God is an eternity of suffering in blazing fire and brimstone.  Thank you.

 

Secondly, could you please help me understand exactly which item of evidence from the creation points specifically to Jesus Christ being the one and true creator and messiah?  I ask because telling me you believe this to be so is another of your subjective beliefs, which is, of course, something you cannot share with me.  Please point me to something I can test, check and examine for myself.  

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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2 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

Death penalty- lake of fire, both have the same concept.. you do something wrong and your punished. But you accept the death penalty because it's a concept you might be used to if you live in the US. 

 

You have your entire life on earth to find your relationship with the father. If your a non believer because you never had to chance to know the truth then you will be shown and given the opportunity to make a choice. 

 

This is not about common sense, just because it's outside of your understanding or liking doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

 

 

 

You may think that execution and the lake of fire are the same concept Georgia, but could you please tell us how long people will suffer agonizing torment in the lake?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Georgia said:

 

I did not mean to offend you. What I meant is, I am suprised to see so many ex Christians suprised that I have faith without all of the hard evidence- does that make sense? 

 

Faith is like the power of attraction, yes- positive energy and frequency-a whole other topic but something which "religion" does not talk about. 

 

Even the idea of going to church on a Sunday :( The church has it all wrong 

 

Being taught about faith and knowing how to use it are two very different things

 

 

Georgia, you say that you have faith without ALL of the hard evidence - which must mean that you do have SOME hard evidence.

 

Could you please present the hard evidence you do have so that it can be tested, checked and examined by us?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

You may think that execution and the lake of fire are the same concept Georgia, but could you please tell us how long people will suffer agonizing torment in the lake?

 

 

This illuminates a much deeper point. Execution, in and of itself, is completely different from torture. Capital punishment is, by definition, an end to all further punishment. Now, of course there are and have been many methods of execution which are toturous. But that is beside the point. You can mix execution and torture if you like, but execution itself is bad only inasmuch as it deprives someone of life. Torture is actively and continuously malevolent. Eternal torture...

 

Say it with me: God is good. All the time. /s.

 

For the record, I'm against capital punishment.

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Official Gold Stars to everyone who can continue with this. I'm getting too old and cranky to spar with some mindsets. I'll just watch from the peanut gallery. Have fun!

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19 minutes ago, florduh said:

Official Gold Stars to everyone who can continue with this. I'm getting too old and cranky to spar with some mindsets. I'll just watch from the peanut gallery. Have fun!

Yup. I skipped over pages 3, 4 and 5. Same old, same old. What's interesting to me is that when asked a hard question the Christian will bob and weave and not answer the question directly. Happens every time. After a point, these threads all read the same.

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5 hours ago, Georgia said:

I am going to set out my beliefs below (I am prepared to get ripped to shreds 🤣)

 

We've heard it all before. You have nothing new to share. Absolutely nothing. So why are you bothering? Why do you want to share your beliefs? What is the point? We don't go into Christian forums to ask questions about why they are praying, why they believe the nonsense they believe.

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50 minutes ago, freshstart said:

 

We don't go into Christian forums to ask questions about why they are praying, why they believe the nonsense they believe.

 

 

I recently have.  I try to pose questions in a respectful way that gets them to think.

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3 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

I recently have.  I try to pose questions in a respectful way that gets them to think.

  

And what sort of reactions do you get? Do they really think or do they just dig down into the apologetics and come back with canned answers?

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Christianity itself is a conspiracy theory. I can't handle more than one conspiracy at a time anymore. Congratulations on your gold stars!

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2 hours ago, freshstart said:

 

We've heard it all before. You have nothing new to share. Absolutely nothing. So why are you bothering? Why do you want to share your beliefs? What is the point? We don't go into Christian forums to ask questions about why they are praying, why they believe the nonsense they believe.

I don't think there is anything really wrong with expanding horizons.  At some point I think we ask ourselves why do we believe what we believe or the basic "who am I".  If you were a Christian for any given period of time, surely you understand her position.  Granted she's a bit full of herself, but aren't/weren't we all. 

 

Her horizons are just barely past her beliefs but the population here seems to expect she see three horizons over, around the globe.  Cut her some slack.  Florduh doesn't have to because he's been here so long and at his age he's less tolerant of people on his lawn.  Carry on.

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2 hours ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't think there is anything really wrong with expanding horizons.  At some point I think we ask ourselves why do we believe what we believe or the basic "who am I".  If you were a Christian for any given period of time, surely you understand her position.  Granted she's a bit full of herself, but aren't/weren't we all. 

 

Her horizons are just barely past her beliefs but the population here seems to expect she see three horizons over, around the globe.  Cut her some slack.  Florduh doesn't have to because he's been here so long and at his age he's less tolerant of people on his lawn.  Carry on.

We don't "cut slack" - it's called the Lions Den - you come here, then be prepared for it and know what you believe, why, be prepared to provide your evidence and not stick to general opinions like "there's Christian scientists, smart people believe this way, therefore my beliefs are valid." 

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4 hours ago, older said:

  

And what sort of reactions do you get? Do they really think or do they just dig down into the apologetics and come back with canned answers?

 

3 hours ago, SarahJaneSmith said:

@Weezer, what questions do you typically ask?

 

I just did my first one a few days ago.  Basically I pretended to be a novice and said it seems inconsistant that god gave commandments to not kill or steal, and then turns around and tells his children to slaughter the Canaanites and take their land. 

 

The answer.  The "killing" wasn't murder (what the commandment really means)  because it was justified by God.   The Canaanites were wicked and that was gods way of punishing them.  He gave scripture for that response.  But, he went on to say, this part is not scripture, but technically speaking, taking their land wasn't stealing since they were already dead.  It would have been stealing if they had taken it while the Canaanites were still alive. 

 

Doesn't that sound like a person with a heart full of love!!!  I didn't let him know my real feelings about that response, and followed up with another question about God's "mediators" with the masses of people.  Will let you know how that turns out.  Perhaps on another thread so we don't hijack this one?

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1 hour ago, Edgarcito said:

I don't think there is anything really wrong with expanding horizons.  At some point I think we ask ourselves why do we believe what we believe or the basic "who am I".  If you were a Christian for any given period of time, surely you understand her position.  Granted she's a bit full of herself, but aren't/weren't we all. 

 

Her horizons are just barely past her beliefs but the population here seems to expect she see three horizons over, around the globe.  Cut her some slack.  Florduh doesn't have to because he's been here so long and at his age he's less tolerant of people on his lawn.  Carry on.

 

If you're gonna argue with grumpy old ex-Christians ya better bring your own lawn! And get off mine! :)

 

This is all a learning experience for us all. :)

 

 

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12 hours ago, Georgia said:


It's horrible- I can't pretend that's it's not. But that doesn't mean it's not true, because you don't like how it sounds.

 

 

Neither does it mean that it *is* true.  There is no credible evidence for life after death, nor is there any evidence for heaven or hell.  From my point of view, it's all delusion and psychological manipulation that has been foisted upon society for thousands of years, and can simply be ignored.

 

Quote

But can we be clear, the wages of sin is death- not an eternity of burning in hell fire. Yes you enter the Lake of Fire but you will not burn for an eternity. This something the catholics used to get people to pay their way out of hell. 

 

The principle is the same as we live by on earth- commit a crime and you are punished. You go to prison and cant you even still receive the death penalty in the US? 

 

I live in Canada.  We abolished the death penalty decades ago.

 

There is nothing whatsoever that justifies a god reviving someone in order to kill them again.  That is obscene.

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13 hours ago, Georgia said:

 

Hey 

 

Do you mind explaining what you mean by not being able to feel it in a religious sense?  I find that really interesting :)

 

I made the point about the story of faith but that is what is required of you. If you don't have that level of faith as described then you may not experience a full relationship with the father--- I say that with caution, I'm sure you all have your own stories on this. 

 

 

 

I mean it in a literal sense -- I am neurologically and psychologically unable to suspend disbelief in order to see gods as real beings.  (It doesn't matter which god, either.)  I can't love them, hate them or otherwise care about them in any way.  If I try to talk to them, it is indistinguishable from my imagination in all respects.

 

I cannot profess faith in something when my own brain is muttering "Yeah, right..." under its breath.  My amount of religious faith is zero, and has been this way for as long as I can remember.  I also can't have any relationship with "the father," as it simply isn't real to me.  It doesn't matter what is "required" of me.  It isn't going to happen, and I have no good reason to try to make it happen.

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11 hours ago, Georgia said:

OK everyone :)

 

I am going to set out my beliefs below (I am prepared to get ripped to shreds 🤣)

 

?????

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