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Politics while in the Church


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2 minutes ago, Timothew said:

Can I just vent here? I mean, is it allowed?

 

I think it might be good to write down the crap that is bothering me so that I don't have to think about it all the time.

Furinstants:

The pastor's wife (a while ago) told me that it is my "duty as a christin" to support Donald Trump. Meanwhile, she also told my wife that it is a sin for christins to read the Harry Potter novels. This just seems weird (and really funny). I'm supposed to support the grabbing of lady parts, but reading a fictional account of a boy wizard is stepping over the line. How is this line drawn anyway? It's stupid! (I'm not supposed to say that)

It seems the rules still exist (for me) but other people can do whatever the hewl they want to do.  

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Churches in the U.S. walk this fine line of hypocrisy with regard to government and 'politics'. Almost every church in the U.S. signs a 501(c)3 contract in which they are then prohibited from acting in the "political" realm.

They do this for exemption from taxation.

 

If I could believe today in a God, I could not believe for a moment that God would want DJT in a high government position. But then again, I could not believe god would want J. Biden, nor B.H. Obama in such a position, nor B. Clinton, nor GW Bush, nor any of the political actors who have occupied the White House in my lifetime.

 

Americans have devolved to seeing positions within the federal government as a "god" unto itself. Humans never cease wanting someone, someone else, someone wiser and more powerful than themselves to rule over them. Why this is so I'll never understand.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, alreadyGone said:

Churches in the U.S. walk this fine line of hypocrisy with regard to government and 'politics'. Almost every church in the U.S. signs a 501(c)3 contract in which they are then prohibited from acting in the "political" realm.

They do this for exemption from taxation.

 

If I could believe today in a God, I could not believe for a moment that God would want DJT in a high government position. But then again, I could not believe god would want J. Biden, nor B.H. Obama in such a position, nor B. Clinton, nor GW Bush, nor any of the political actors who have occupied the White House in my lifetime.

 

Americans have devolved to seeing positions within the federal government as a "god" unto itself. Humans never cease wanting someone, someone else, someone wiser and more powerful than themselves to rule over them. Why this is so I'll never understand.

 

I've left the church so I guess it doesn't matter, but I would like to see the restrictions. It doesn't seem like the churches pay any attention to the rules and it seems like the IRS doesn't do anything about it anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sorry about that Alreadygone, I tried to reply to your comment, but ended up adding something TO your comment. 

I don't know how to use the furum.

 

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I've been wondering if I am a Christian or if I am not a Christian. I don't know if I believe there is a god or not. A very big claim of Christianity is that Christians have the Holy Spirit living inside of them. With the way they are acting right now, it doesn't seem possible that there is a god living inside of them. I'm not judging, I'm just thinking things through. Looking for evidence of a god. Here is the thing, whether or not I believe that god exists or not, whether or not I believe that Jesus existed, it doesn't seem harmful for me to do what Jesus said. I mean things like treating other people the way I want to be treated. I don't have to accept everything everybody says about what Jesus wanted, like voting republican in every election and hating people who don't believe the same as they do. But if I am decent to other people, then whether or not god exists I will be a better person. And if god exists, I don't think he will be angry that I've treated other people well whether or not I believe that he exists. And if god doesn't exist, it is still good to be good to other people. So in the end it doesn't matter whether I am "christian" or "not-christian." I'm just Tim.

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18 hours ago, Timothew said:

 And if god doesn't exist, it is still good to be good to other people. So in the end it doesn't matter whether I am "christian" or "not-christian." I'm just Tim.

Good thinking! 

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Why do trumpers hate non trumpers so much?

 

If I dislike Donald Trump because of his lack of character, and someone else likes Donald Trump despite his lack of character, why does the trumper dislike me so much for disliking Donald Trump?  

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All of them said that it was God's will that allowed Trump to win the 2016 election.

Now I'll just wait to see if any of them says that it is God's will that allowed Joe Biden to win.

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On 11/7/2020 at 7:05 PM, Timothew said:

All of them said that it was God's will that allowed Trump to win the 2016 election.

Now I'll just wait to see if any of them says that it is God's will that allowed Joe Biden to win.

According to one earnest young man I met recently who is of the Presbyterian faith, God ordains everything, including this discussion on this website.

He truly works in mysterious ways, huh?

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6 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

According to one earnest young man I met recently who is of the Presbyterian faith, God ordains everything, including this discussion on this website.

He truly works in mysterious ways, huh?

But apparently, God can only ordain republican presidents. If a democrat is elected, they shrug their shoulders and say that god works in mysterious ways.

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My suspicion is that God would agree with George Wallace:

"Democrat, Republican.... there's not a dime's worth of difference between them. Two sides of the same coin."

 

I know I do.

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I know a very small town, where there is a GOP area office located in an old 60's-era storefront on a side street one address off of Main Street.

 

If you walked out their door, straight across the sidewalk directly across the street, you would come very near walking directly into the door of the local DNC office.

 

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14 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

I know a very small town, where there is a GOP area office located in an old 60's-era storefront on a side street one address off of Main Street.

 

If you walked out their door, straight across the sidewalk directly across the street, you would come very near walking directly into the door of the local DNC office.

 

I live in a small town, where there is a GOP area office located in an old 60's-era storefront on a side street one address off of Main Street. If you walked out their door and around the corner, you would walk directly in front of the local DNC office. 

That's spooky. I just got a chill. On the other hand, these people are everywhere. 🤪

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On 11/5/2020 at 3:13 AM, Timothew said:

Why do trumpers hate non trumpers so much?

 

If I dislike Donald Trump because of his lack of character, and someone else likes Donald Trump despite his lack of character, why does the trumper dislike me so much for disliking Donald Trump?  


We are tribal creatures, it’s in our DNA. There was likely an evolutionary advantage for us to stick together in groups and cooperate.

 

Also, Christianity encourages black and white thinking, eg. insider/outsider, us verses them, you are either saved or unsaved, with us or against us.

 

Tribalism may have helped humans to survive this far, however it may ultimately destroy us.

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3 minutes ago, LostinParis said:

 

Tribalism may have helped humans to survive this far, however it may ultimately destroy us.

 

You got that right!  It seems we are suffering a setback in our moral evolution.  HA!  Hopefully we are in that extremely slow process.

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On 11/13/2020 at 1:59 PM, LostinParis said:


We are tribal creatures, it’s in our DNA. There was likely an evolutionary advantage for us to stick together in groups and cooperate.

 

Also, Christianity encourages black and white thinking, eg. insider/outsider, us verses them, you are either saved or unsaved, with us or against us.

 

Tribalism may have helped humans to survive this far, however it may ultimately destroy us.

I think you are right. (You must be a member of my tribe!)

But seriously, I was watching one of those idiotic "survivor" shows on Netflix. The idea was that a person had to survive all alone in an arctic region of Canada. I thought that it was unrealistic because people have always banded together in order to survive. Perhaps one day, we can learn to cooperate with other "tribes" and gain a mutual advantage for everyone. Maybe we can start by removing walls instead of building new ones.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Several months late to this topic, I know, but I felt like maybe sharing my own experience on this topic might be of some small help. My immediate family and close family friends are also Trump supporters. Right now, I have to rely on them for transportation once a week. Each time, it's the same thing, the conversation inevitably goes to "pray for Trump and his legal team" or "god wants him to win, pray to prevent the devil's interference!" Hoping that now that the electoral college has officially voted for Biden that it might end, but I doubt it. 

 

What irritates me about blending politics with religion is the hypocrisy. If god ordains all leaders of nations, then Biden won because god wanted him to. If christians are supposed to be "in the world, but not of it" then they shouldn't concern themselves with the government at all since that is a worldly pursuit. Supposedly nothing, no matter how small, happens on this planet with god's will. Why do they rebel so hard against their own god's will? It reveals how divinely uninspired the church is. It reveals that god is not there or not listening to their prayers. 

 

Also, how are things going for you now? A lot has happened since your post.

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On 12/15/2020 at 7:00 PM, TasiVasQwibQwib said:

Several months late to this topic, I know, but I felt like maybe sharing my own experience on this topic might be of some small help. My immediate family and close family friends are also Trump supporters. Right now, I have to rely on them for transportation once a week. Each time, it's the same thing, the conversation inevitably goes to "pray for Trump and his legal team" or "god wants him to win, pray to prevent the devil's interference!" Hoping that now that the electoral college has officially voted for Biden that it might end, but I doubt it. 

 

What irritates me about blending politics with religion is the hypocrisy. If god ordains all leaders of nations, then Biden won because god wanted him to. If christians are supposed to be "in the world, but not of it" then they shouldn't concern themselves with the government at all since that is a worldly pursuit. Supposedly nothing, no matter how small, happens on this planet with god's will. Why do they rebel so hard against their own god's will? It reveals how divinely uninspired the church is. It reveals that god is not there or not listening to their prayers. 

 

Also, how are things going for you now? A lot has happened since your post.

 

"Lord Jesus, your will be done. Not mine. And while the name Donald Trump may be listed in the Book of Life, his name is not listed in the bible. Let us not worship idols of gold nor idols of human flesh and blood, but let us seek Jesus!"

 

When you find new transportation, whip that out on em. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, midniterider said:

 

"Lord Jesus, your will be done. Not mine. And while the name Donald Trump may be listed in the Book of Life, his name is not listed in the bible. Let us not worship idols of gold nor idols of human flesh and blood, but let us seek Jesus! For who died on the cross that we may have everlasting life? Donald Trump? No it was Jesus. Give us discernment. Lead us not astray..." 

 

When you find new transportation, whip that out on em. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/15/2020 at 9:00 PM, TasiVasQwibQwib said:

 

 

Also, how are things going for you now? A lot has happened since your post.


Thanks, things are going good. I'm just like "Meh, they can do whatever they want. I'm not part of them anymore."

 

You said it exactly right about the hypocrisy though. If it was true that Trump became president because a god wanted him to be president, then the same applies to Biden. But we aren't hearing any of them say "god made Biden president".

Whatever. They prove themselves to be hypocrites every day, and I'm not part of their group anymore. 

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On 12/15/2020 at 10:00 PM, TasiVasQwibQwib said:

...What irritates me about blending politics with religion is the hypocrisy. If god ordains all leaders of nations, then Biden won because god wanted him to. If christians are supposed to be "in the world, but not of it" then they shouldn't concern themselves with the government at all since that is a worldly pursuit.

 

Supposedly nothing, no matter how small, happens on this planet with god's will. Why do they rebel so hard against their own god's will?

 

It reveals how divinely uninspired the church is. It reveals that god is not there or not listening to their prayers.

 

(forgive me for a slight reformatting of your quoted post, for emphasis)

 

I had a discussion with a (Protestant) minister earlier this year.

Their church posts a creed which includes:

_______________________________________________________________________

"Christians should seek to bring industry, government, and society as a whole under the sway of the principles of righteousness, truth, and brotherly love."

_______________________________________________________________________

 

I asserted that the church in America has been neutered by acceptance of the 501(c)3 contract (which grants tax-free status).

 

He argued that there is no reason for any Christian to give a minute of time or attention to "government, or politics", because "it's all corrupt".

Instead he argues, the good Christian should be focused only on the Bible and devotion to God.

 

And this I've seen to be almost universally true..

"We believe that God expects us to obey appointed government".

(Romans 13)

 

with-

 

"There's no reason for a Christian to give attention to such worldly things"

 

and-

 

"If government steps outside the bounds of God's law, then we are commanded by God to not obey, but rather to obey God's law instead".

 

And this they believe they are prepared to do as strong obedient Christians, while at the same time looking away and giving no attention at all to matters of governance.

 

Simply... a Christian wrapper around typical human apathy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, alreadyGone said:

I asserted that the church in America has been neutered by acceptance of the 501(c)3 contract (which grants tax-free status).

 

Oddly enough, Churches are automatically exempt by virtue of being a church and unlike other religious organizations, are not required to file, nor receive 501(c)(3) recognition.

There is no acceptance of the contract, they simply "are" until the government goes out of its way to claim the Church is no longer a Church but some sort of other organization masquerading as a Church:

 

Quote

Automatic Exemption for Churches
Churches that meet the requirements of IRC Section 501(c)(3) are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax-exempt status from the IRS.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

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