Blind chance or god

[LifeCycle]

Just now, Weezer said:

 

Hey!  You are a neighbor of sorts.  My home town is a Tulsa suburb,  and where most of those relatives I mentioned above live.  Are you an off road bike rider?

I live in a suburb south of Tulsa. Starts with a J. 

 

Not really a mountain biker... I've done it and did a 60 mile race in Arkansas but I'm 95% road biker. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 minute ago, LifeCycle said:

I live in a suburb south of Tulsa. Starts with a J. 

 

Not really a mountain biker... I've done it and did a 60 mile race in Arkansas but I'm 95% road biker. 

I'll send you a PM later.  Need to get back to work for now.

[webmdave]

14 hours ago, Weezer said:

Overall this is a great forum, but this has been my biggest disappointment.

 

@Weezer: Your comment implies you are harboring more than one disappointment with this site. Would you be so kind as to list every grievance/disappointment you have with this site?  

 

Thanks for the input.   

[◊ Weezer ◊]

5 hours ago, webmdave said:

 

@Weezer: Your comment implies you are harboring more than one disappointment with this site. Would you be so kind as to list every grievance/disappointment you have with this site?

 

I think you may be reading more into my comments than are there.  I am somewhat obsessive/compulsive, but do not keep a list of every grievance/disappointment I have.  And I don't feel I am "harboring" anything.  I think I pretty well expressed my concerns with my long statement above. 

[webmdave]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

  I think I pretty well expressed my concerns with my long statement above.

 

@Weezer: So your "biggest dissapointment" with this site is actually your only dissapointment with this site? Not trying to read anything into your comments, just trying to understand the total nature of your complaints, since by your choice of words  you appear you may have several complaints.

 

I have no problem with recieving criticisms from anyone, but do appreciate when those criticisms are more clearly delineated. 

 

Thanks in advance for your consideration in this matter. 

[TABA]

@webmdave, PMFJI but I think you may be reading too much into an offhand comment from @Weezer.  Maybe 2020 is getting to ya, the same way it’s getting to a lot of us!
 

Weezer and I and many others show our appreciation for this community and your role in it by being financial supporters. Money talks...

 

[Joshpantera]

On 6/30/2020 at 2:49 AM, Weezer said:

A diagnosis couldn't be done without a full evaluation, but I am a retired Psychiatric Social Worker and can pick up clues from what is posted.  I PMed SV and highly suspect he has a mental disorder, but will not disclose what was discussed out of respect for his privacy.   

 

 

So you messaged him, he didn't message you with any complaints. I don't know of SV complaining to myself or anyone else either.

 

My thoughts are that this is a troll. Here for the purpose of causing disruption and basically breaking our rules and forum guidelines in doing so. He may be mentally ill. I don't know. A lot of trolls may be mentally ill for that matter. But that only means that we're looking at mentally ill based trolling if correct. Which involves flat earth and all variety of conspiracy. Not to be too harsh, but the whole thing amounts to a lot of nonsense. Meant to disrupt ex christians on an ex christian community site. There's no other clear reason for these posts that I can see. 

 

 

[TABA]

Two things about SV...

 

He clearly wanted to fight Satan, but since the guy is rather elusive, he figured we were the closest he could get.

 

It looked like he was commenting on various threads with the goal of getting them moved to the Lions Den.  A kind of hack of our forums. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

1 hour ago, TABA said:

 

It looked like he was commenting on various threads with the goal of getting them moved to the Lions Den.  A kind of hack of our forums. 

The fact that he hasn't posted since being restricted to the Den lends credence to your observation, suggesting his motivations were calculated and methodical.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

As moderators, we have this entire website under our purview.  This includes newly deconverted members who are still struggling, christians who are facing crises of faith, and lurkers who might be anywhere on the spectrum.  When one member actively seeks to undermine our primary purpose, we have to weigh the needs of everyone against the possibility of offending the one who was deliberately running riot in several forums.  If sparing further trauma to already traumatized members means seeming to disrespect the one, I'm comfortable with that.  Because my purpose here is reaching out to other recovering ex-christians, not walking on eggshells for the occasional christian apologist.  

Thanks,

TRP

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Some symptoms of certain mental problems is inconsistency, disjointed thinking, and occasionally self defeating behavior.  In severe cases their sentences may not make sense.  (LOL, an exception is when predictive text or auto spell uses words you don't mean to use.  Happened to me recently and I forgot to proofread before sending)

 

And with mania, and some drug use, they can feel God like and have a sense of entitlement.  And they would never admit to making a mistake.  So yes, they do push the boundaries.   And in some cases it is a mixture of a mean spirited person with a mental problem to different degrees.  Really difficult to deal with.  On the psy unit we occasionally would have to restrain them and administer a tranquilizer.  And days later some of them would apologize for the trouble they caused. 

 

I'm not saying we should just let them run wild.  I am saying we should do our best to treat everyone with respect.  I know how tempting it is to lambast some of them, but that is bad karma.

 

I am convinced SV was not a pure troll.  He was not here to disrupt.  He was scared for our souls as well as his own.  Seemed to be scared that corresponding with us had contaminated himself.  He seemed to realize he was getting out of control.

 

I don't want to beat this thing to death.  Just encourage myself and others have some empathy and treat everyone with respect.  Especially when it is a new person, we don't know what we are dealing with.  You don't know how many times I have erased what I typed.  And a few times I posted something and then wished I had not.  I may be old school, but thought the man with his head up his rear was "over the top."

 

Thanks for listening to my sermon!  This site is a much needed service, and as much as possible I want it to be a positive experience for everyone who comes here.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Dave, I want to thank you for making this site possible.  I wish something like this had been available when I began my questioning.  I only had one other person who understood what I was going through, and they lived out of state.  I think the process would have gone much faster if this site had been available. 

 

And I appreciate the moderators difficult task of keeping things running smoothly..

 

[Joshpantera]

5 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am convinced SV was not a pure troll.  He was not here to disrupt.  He was scared for our souls as well as his own.  Seemed to be scared that corresponding with us had contaminated himself.  He seemed to realize he was getting out of control.

 

Very odd of him, the whole thing. That degree of delusion is so divorced from reality that we really shouldn't allow him to correspond with us, if you're correct on this. When people are suicidal or in desperate need of professional counseling, we make that clear to said person. This is just a discussion board. And we can't even get into those liabilities. Not that he was suicidal, but he is completely divorced from reality if he's scared for our souls, and scared that corresponding with us will contaminate him with our, shall we say, "unclean" filth. Pretty fucked up any which way it's taken. 

 

The problem with the disrupting, is that he went bonkers through a variety of forums. No, we don't intend to have all of these other threads moved to the den if they were not intended to be posted in the den from the outset. He's either stupid or clever. I'm not sure exactly which. But after he saw that the result of his interactions earned threads moved to the lion's den, do to his interaction, it's possible that he may have gone off on a trolling tirade very intentionally. Or he's just dumb as a box of rocks. It's a toss up.

 

Mentally ill and smart, or mentally ill and dumb? Neither way bodes well for his continued presence here.

 

11 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

As moderators, we have this entire website under our purview.  This includes newly deconverted members who are still struggling, christians who are facing crises of faith, and lurkers who might be anywhere on the spectrum.  When one member actively seeks to undermine our primary purpose, we have to weigh the needs of everyone against the possibility of offending the one who was deliberately running riot in several forums.  If sparing further trauma to already traumatized members means seeming to disrespect the one, I'm comfortable with that.  Because my purpose here is reaching out to other recovering ex-christians, not walking on eggshells for the occasional christian apologist.  

Thanks,

TRP

 

Running riot through several forums, yes, that's exactly what I noticed too. And I see that we both stepped in to moderate the riots. I guess I'm just generally not in the mood for any bullshit right now. 

 

 

 

 

[midniterider]

5 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am convinced SV was not a pure troll. 

 

He was a troll hybrid.  Fueled by either methane or hot air. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

but he is completely divorced from reality if he's scared for our souls, and scared that corresponding with us will contaminate him with our, shall we say, "unclean" filth. Pretty fucked up any which way it's taken. 

 

Exactly!  That is mental illness. (But not too far from what some other Christians think)   I don't think he would mind if I tell you his parting words to me on P.M.  He prayed that I would repent (and return to the fold). Is that someone who simply came here to troll us?

 

1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

 He's either stupid or clever.

 

Those aren't the only two options.  There are other viewpoints.  Human behavior is EXTREMELY complex.  If you haven't done so, I invite you to study some basic psychology, and about mental illness.  It would help you in your task here, and you might find it very interesting.  And understanding who and what you are dealing with would make it less stressful.

 

13 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

 If sparing further trauma to already traumatized members means seeming to disrespect the one, I'm comfortable with that.  Because my purpose here is reaching out to other recovering ex-christians, not walking on eggshells for the occasional christian apologist.  

 

I am not suggesting anyone walk on eggshells.   I am simply saying these situations could be handled in a more respectful, diplomatic manner.  This is NOT aimed at anyone in particular, I don't even remember who it has been, but I get the feeling at times that some enjoy "sticking it to" the "dumb" christians.  Which I can understand because at times I also want to do so.  But all that does is temporarily stroke our own egos.  It is not the respectful, humane thing to do.  And remember, we were once one of those dumb Christians. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

 I am simply saying these situations could be handled in a more respectful, diplomatic manner. 

SV was informed from the very beginning that preaching, quoting scripture, proselytizing, and such were only allowed in the Den.  Several of his posts had to be deleted, due to their content.  The very thread you're currently using to plead his case had to be moved into the Den as a direct result of SV's scripture quoting; this thread was originally in the Got Questions forum.  I gave SV several warnings, myself, before taking any direct action.  He was shown every respect and his case was handled as diplomatically as it could be.  Our rules exist to protect those still struggling with deconversion.  When the rules are not followed, we have to protect them.  If @SilentVoice has any complaints, he's welcome to come back and make his case himself.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

7 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

  When the rules are not followed, we have to protect them. 

 

I had no concerns about what was being done, until the posting of the picture.

[Justus]

On 6/27/2020 at 9:31 AM, webmdave said:

 

Says the guy who maintains that the entire universe and everything in it magically poofed into existence when a supposedly pre-existing, uncreated Hebrew tribal god burped.  

If not mistaken that is the Big Bang theory that states that all space, matter, energy and time has always existed and magically blew into existence from an highly condensed state known as a primordial atom to form the known and observed eternal universe.  

 

You can say potato and they can say potatoe, but no matter which way you say it, you are both referring unto the same ole tuber.  And that tuber is nothing but a spud.  

 

 

[webmdave]

Wrong. If something cannot come from nothing, then your creator god cannot exist, because he must be something. If you say your god has always existed, then I would maintain an eternal universe is a better explanation. In other words, the universe has always existed. 

 

Evidence supports my position as we know that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Matter can only be changed from one form to another. Therefore it is apparent that matter has always been in existence in one form or another. There is no evidence that a Hebrew tribal god (or any other god) exists at all. 

 

[Joshpantera]

On 7/2/2020 at 2:57 AM, Weezer said:

Exactly!  That is mental illness. (But not too far from what some other Christians think)   I don't think he would mind if I tell you his parting words to me on P.M.  He prayed that I would repent (and return to the fold). Is that someone who simply came here to troll us?

 

That's what trolling is, though. An intentional disruption in a given online community. Whether he does it under the banner of bring christians back or not (he must not be a Calvinist), he's trolling our threads with disruption in mind. It's like a terrorist who thinks the end justifies the means or something similar. Only not as extreme in the case of forum disruption, of course. But same general mindset. There was no sense of honestly trying to convert anyone - just rattling the cage, ranting and raving, and general disruption. 

 

On 7/2/2020 at 2:57 AM, Weezer said:

Those aren't the only two options.  There are other viewpoints.  Human behavior is EXTREMELY complex.  If you haven't done so, I invite you to study some basic psychology, and about mental illness.  It would help you in your task here, and you might find it very interesting.  And understanding who and what you are dealing with would make it less stressful.

 

We're not so much interested in diagnosing people, or even trying. If they're in need of counseling, then we direct towards counseling and leave it at. Because this website is not set up to do the job of professional counseling. We're just here for discussions and debates, that's pretty much where it ends. 

 

On 7/2/2020 at 1:36 PM, Weezer said:

 

I had no concerns about what was being done, until the posting of the picture.

 

That's the problem here. SV was limited to the Lion's Den by changing his group setting.

 

The picture is the 'default icon' for the group setting that limits someone to the Lion's Den. You'll notice the heading, "Where's my Brian?" It replaced the group setting with the icon for, "Authentic Christian Believer."

 

That's why the picture of a guy with his head up his ass appeared - as a default to the change in group setting. No one singled him out with that picture. In fact, anyone else who has their group setting changed to the group setting, "Where's My Brain?" the same default icon with appear. It just the default for anyone who disrupts the forum to the point of having to be limited to the Lion's Den only. 

 

 

[WalterP]

4 hours ago, webmdave said:

Wrong. If something cannot come from nothing, then your creator god cannot exist, because he must be something. If you say your god has always existed, then I would maintain an eternal universe is a better explanation. In other words, the universe has always existed. 

 

Evidence supports my position as we know that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Matter can only be changed from one form to another. Therefore it is apparent that matter has always been in existence in one form or another. There is no evidence that a Hebrew tribal god (or any other god) exists at all. 

 

 

I would like to point out that the position adopted by the Vatican and by the Christian apologist William Lane Craig on the Big Bang is based upon a theory written by Stephen Hawking and Roger Penrose in 1970.

 

Disillusioned, JoshPantera and I have been discussing this topic in this thread.

 

https://www.ex-christian.net/topic/82597-the-failed-cosmology-of-william-lane-craig/

 

But in 1998 new evidence was discovered that breaches the terms and conditions of that theory under which it applies to the observable universe.

 

Mainstream science readily accepted this new evidence and the Hawking - Penrose Singularity theory has been discarded.

 

This means that the current model of cosmic origins no longer posits that all of space and time came into existence 13.72 billion years ago.

 

The term 'Big Bang' is now taken to mean the hot, dense state of the very early universe and not the event where and when it 'banged' or exploded into existence.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

7 hours ago, Justus said:

If not mistaken that is the Big Bang theory that states that all space, matter, energy and time has always existed and magically blew into existence from an highly condensed state known as a primordial atom to form the known and observed eternal universe.

...

You are mistaken, in large part.  Study hard.

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

10 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

No one singled him out with that picture. In fact, anyone else who has their group setting changed to the group setting, "Where's My Brain?" the same default icon with appear. It just the default for anyone who disrupts the forum to the point of having to be limited to the Lion's Den only. 

 

I would like to suggest finding a different icon.

[midniterider]

The Bible: A hot condensed state of bullshit giving rise to massive ignorance.