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2 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

But we do know that there's a ton of ways that life can potentially come into existence.

I only skip read your post, so forgive me if I missed the part where you qualified this exceptionally bold statement by giving at least 1 example.

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A diagnosis couldn't be done without a full evaluation, but I am a retired Psychiatric Social Worker and can pick up clues from what is posted.  I PMed SV and highly suspect he has a mental disorder,

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Panspermia is one. Abiogensis is another. Some people look towards alien seeding. That's just three off the top of my head. The point being that the options on the table are large, not small....

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'Quantum wave fluctuations separating matter and anti-matter and energy from dark energy' or some such nonsense, suddenly caused a small tear in reality the size of a pin head which sent a trillion spiralling galaxies outward in an ever expanding, meaningless existence to it's cold fate of death. And you just happen to be alive at this time. Almost 14 billion years ago. People tell themselves this, so they can sleep at night. They believe it (or some similar idiotic belief). They believe this "science" so much, they have faith in it. This is what happened, if you don't like it you are unreasonable, etc. The same type of people that demand an explanation of how to find God on a calculator or through a microscope. They believe they have enough knowledge to know what happened 14 billion years ago. And yet recorded history goes back approx. 6000 years (coincidentally the approx. age of creation according to the bible). But that's just absurd to them. It's got to be meaningless and have science-sounding buzzwords in the explanation.

 

You ask for proof of God using science, yet the science doesn't exist to support half the nonsense that people take for granted about the big bang or abiogenesis. It's all hypocritical.

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14 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

Panspermia is one. Abiogensis is another. Some people look towards alien seeding. That's just three off the top of my head. The point being that the options on the table are large, not small....

What are you talking about. If panspermia was real, the life would have to come from somewhere, meaning it was either created or abiogenesis happened. Panspermia is not a means by which life comes from non-life, just like how heating food up is not a means of creating food from nothing.

 

Alien seeding? You mean aliens that are alive and have to have come from creation or abiogenesis? Aliens are not a means by which life comes from non-life. You're supposed to be bullying me, accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

If life exists, it was created, or it was abiogenesis. Anything living does not create abiogenesis. Does that make sense? Hope that helps.

 

Edit:

Biology; the study of living things

Biochemistry; the study of the chemistry of living things

Amino acids are the building blocks of living things

You cannot create all the amino acids essential for living things under ideal conditions, let alone chaotic conditions.

 

Just thought I'd add this in case you thought I was claiming that panspermia brought life to Earth. Even if it had amino acids on it, none of them could contribute to the formation of life. Protip; we use stomach acid to break down amino acids. Friendly reminder; stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid.

 

[ Assuming that the gases we presently observe were also released by early volcanoes the atmosphere would be made of water vapor (H2O), carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrochloric acid (HCl), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), nitrogen (N2), & sulfur gases.]

 

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@SilentVoice You're only laughing at evolution because you were likely brought up Bible believing, that there exists a god who made a woman out of a man's rib and all the rest of it. Either that or you bought into being saved and the idea that you'll live forever is intoxicating. Had you been brought up to think purple sea monsters created humans you'd be believing that just as well. 

In any case you've made your arrogance and lack of critical thinking ability abundantly clear in this thread. What you think is maybe coming off as intelligence to a casual reader is close-mindedness and black and white thinking. 

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12 minutes ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

@SilentVoice You're only laughing at evolution because you were likely brought up Bible believing, that there exists a god who made a woman out of a man's rib and all the rest of it. Either that or you bought into being saved and the idea that you'll live forever is intoxicating. Had you been brought up to think purple sea monsters created humans you'd be believing that just as well. 

In any case you've made your arrogance and lack of critical thinking ability abundantly clear in this thread. What you think is maybe coming off as intelligence to a casual reader is close-mindedness and black and white thinking. 

I was raised in an atheist home. I went to Catholic school for a couple of years but can't remember anything about it. Religious attendance was compulsory but I hardly know anything about it. I looked for the truth in despair and discovered Jesus. Or maybe I was called and predestined. It's exciting to think about it.

 

Critical thinking can't be fit inside your own limited frame of reference. If anything I've dismantled the ridiculous theories and alternative explanations offered here. Only after I believed that everything God says is true was I rewarded with confirmations to strengthen faith. Give the benefit of the doubt and then receive understanding. It's kind of stupid, though, when the questions that get thrown at me range from "who created God" to "how can so many animals fit inside a boat". None of the people asking them are worthy to be answered. I feel sorry for you guys. But I still want to help.

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Can you tell me, let's just say hypothetically for example that we all found out 100% for sure that the Earth was flat, would you still believe in abiogenesis and evolution?

 

A heliocentric model supports the big bang theory, which supports potentially causeless and ultimately meaningless existence (atheistic world view).

A flat Earth model implies intent and meaning in the placement of stars and the courses of the sun/moon, i.e. intelligent design.

 

I have some really good webms that I want to post but the 0.38MB file size limit won't allow it.

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18 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

I was raised in an atheist home. I went to Catholic school for a couple of years but can't remember anything about it. Religious attendance was compulsory but I hardly know anything about it. I looked for the truth in despair and discovered Jesus. Or maybe I was called and predestined. It's exciting to think about it.

 

Critical thinking can't be fit inside your own limited frame of reference. If anything I've dismantled the ridiculous theories and alternative explanations offered here. Only after I believed that everything God says is true was I rewarded with confirmations to strengthen faith. Give the benefit of the doubt and then receive understanding. It's kind of stupid, though, when the questions that get thrown at me range from "who created God" to "how can so many animals fit inside a boat". None of the people asking them are worthy to be answered. I feel sorry for you guys. But I still want to help.

Forgive me for speculation but you seem to have come here to confirm that you are right. If that is so, well good job. But anyone hellbent, no pun intended, to do that will do that irrespective of the claim and irrespective of the evidence.

    

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4 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

'Quantum wave fluctuations separating matter and anti-matter and energy from dark energy' or some such nonsense, suddenly caused a small tear in reality the size of a pin head which sent a trillion spiralling galaxies outward in an ever expanding, meaningless existence to it's cold fate of death. And you just happen to be alive at this time. Almost 14 billion years ago. People tell themselves this, so they can sleep at night. They believe it (or some similar idiotic belief). They believe this "science" so much, they have faith in it. This is what happened, if you don't like it you are unreasonable, etc. The same type of people that demand an explanation of how to find God on a calculator or through a microscope. They believe they have enough knowledge to know what happened 14 billion years ago. And yet recorded history goes back approx. 6000 years (coincidentally the approx. age of creation according to the bible). But that's just absurd to them. It's got to be meaningless and have science-sounding buzzwords in the explanation.

 

You ask for proof of God using science, yet the science doesn't exist to support half the nonsense that people take for granted about the big bang or abiogenesis. It's all hypocritical.

 

SV, the only proofs used in science are mathematical ones.

 

In every other branch of science there is only evidence, not proof.

 

Therefore, you are mistaken in claiming that anyone here is asking for 'proof of god'.

 

Evidence, yes.  Proof, no.

 

https://theconversation.com/wheres-the-proof-in-science-there-is-none-30570

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/#923dd922fb1b

 

https://oregonstate.edu/instruction/bb317/scientifictheories.html

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

(EDIT)

 

It looks like Astreja beat me to the punch on this one.  

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2 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

I was raised in an atheist home. I went to Catholic school for a couple of years but can't remember anything about it. Religious attendance was compulsory but I hardly know anything about it. I looked for the truth in despair and discovered Jesus. Or maybe I was called and predestined. It's exciting to think about it.

 

Critical thinking can't be fit inside your own limited frame of reference. If anything I've dismantled the ridiculous theories and alternative explanations offered here. Only after I believed that everything God says is true was I rewarded with confirmations to strengthen faith. Give the benefit of the doubt and then receive understanding. It's kind of stupid, though, when the questions that get thrown at me range from "who created God" to "how can so many animals fit inside a boat". None of the people asking them are worthy to be answered. I feel sorry for you guys. But I still want to help.

 

So far,  just human blathering. Where's the Jesus? 

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3 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

I feel sorry for you guys. But I still want to help.

 

You're not capable of "helping" us in a way that we would actually want to be helped.  Cut your losses and shake the dust off your sandals.

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3 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

A heliocentric model supports the big bang theory, which supports potentially causeless and ultimately meaningless existence (atheistic world view).

 

Meaningless?  No.  Meaning is a personal value and is subjective, not objective.  There is no one meaning to life; each is unique to an individual.

 

And quite frankly, I can't conceive of anything more meaningless than being condemned to eternal existence (heaven, hell, insert mythology of choice) by a super-powerful being, rather than simply dying and staying dead.

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 12:01 AM, SilentVoice said:

A rock (any kind will do)

Where does this strange idea come from?  I've heard Kent Hovind say the same thing, and even when repeatedly corrected he goes back to "life from a rock".  That's never been claimed or suggested, so it sounds ridiculous from the start.  We are talking about chemistry not geology.

 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

"hazardous only to flesh but harmless to evolving flesh creatures"

This really seems to be lacking an understanding of just how hardy and robust life is.  We find life in the arctic, middle of the worlds deserts, in the deepest crushing depths of the ocean, miles underground where the light doesn't reach, and swarming in the toxic/acidic waters around volcanic vents.  We have extremophiles that have been dropped on the moon and could potentially still be alive.  So sure, the water was more or less acidic, had a different composition and in a different environment, but none of that says life couldn't survive somewhere in some way.  Any volcanic vent would kill a mammal in seconds and yet we find thriving colonies of microbes happily living there.

 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

But for sea creatures to get to land, it would have to literally be for them to be born unable to breathe under water, and have the instinct (intelligence) to jump out of water and breathe on land as a newborn

You already gave an example of a mudskipper which has both lungs and gills, then go on to say a creature would have to be unable to breathe under water...  There's a whole load of amphibians in the world.  Creatures born in the water and climbing out onto land as they get older.  Back in the day there was an argument by a Christian "If fish turned into land animals why don't we see any fish with lungs?"  Of course since those days we've found several examples, plus aquatic mammals like dolphins and whales who will drown if they stay under water too long. 

The hypothesis I heard was that creatures would be feeding in the shallows when the tide goes out.  Those trapped in tidal pools have a limited oxygen environment, so a strong environmental push to select for those who can survive.

 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

They are all related. The big bang theory -> abiogenesis -> evolution -> atheism

Wrong.  The majority of Christians accept these theories and simply say they were Gods tools to make the world how He wanted.  You can believe He set off the big bang and then walked away.  You can believe He created the first life then allowed evolution to diversify that to what we now see.  None of these theories conflict with religion until you try to shoehorn a young earth into the picture.

As an atheist I would say "I don't know the full answer when it comes to big bang/abiogenesis/evolution" but those hard to know, hard to test subjects are not a requirement for atheism.  Plausible but needs more data doesn't equal god did it.

 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Friendly reminder; stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid.

And yet we don't dissolve from the inside out.  Its almost like our flesh survives in a acid rich environment.  Who wouldn't thunk?

 

9 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

hypothetically for example that we all found out 100% for sure that the Earth was flat, would you still believe in abiogenesis and evolution?

Surely the shape of the world wouldn't change either of those theories?  You would still have an early chemistry set and still have lifeforms changing over time.  The fact the world was flat or round shouldn't matter.  Certainly it would throw the world into turmoil, so many questions would be raised and a new understanding of the world would be needed.  Thankfully we know the shape of the world, so other than hypothetical questions there is nothing to worry about.

Am I reading it correctly that you are a flat earther and a young earther?

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12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

None of the people asking them are worthy to be answered.

^^ just get lost. Your arrogance is unbelievable. 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

I feel sorry for you guys. But I still want to help.

No you don't want to help. You want to prove people wrong. If you wanted to help us you'd take your arrogant little self out of here. 

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12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

I was raised in an atheist home. I went to Catholic school for a couple of years but can't remember anything about it. Religious attendance was compulsory but I hardly know anything about it. I looked for the truth in despair and discovered Jesus. Or maybe I was called and predestined. It's exciting to think about it.

 

Yeah, thinking of oneself as being a special chosen "called" person is an addiction. That's where the exciting part comes in. It's a natural fit for arrogant people. 

12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Critical thinking can't be fit inside your own limited frame of reference.

You'll have to excuse me for laughing at the irony of this one. 

 

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12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Critical thinking can't be fit inside your own limited frame of reference. If anything I've dismantled the ridiculous theories and alternative explanations offered here.

 

The Dunning-Kruger effect is showing through here.

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Flat earth ponderings:

 

Why the heck cant I watch any of that gosh darn great Middle East satellite TV programming over here in the USA? I oughta just be able to aim my dish up at the flat earth's sky and pick it up easy, from anywhere on our flat earth. 

 

And if the earth is flat then why is it dark in Russia when it's midday here? Is half of the world lying to the other half about it being night time when it's daytime here? 

 

And why the heck cant I see New Zealand from the USA with a pair of binoculars? Or a telescope. I have even been way up high in several airplanes and have never ever been able to see New Zealand. If the earth was flat I could certainly see any place from any other place, especially if I was in an airplane way above all the mountains. Satan must be hiding half the earth from me!

 

 

 

....

 

Why is Satan so powerful that SV's words from almighty Jesus are unable to penetrate Satan's grip on us heathens? You would think that if Jesus wanted us back that he would just destroy the evil one's power over us and his love would flow into our ears. Either Jesus doesn't really care about us enough to kick Satan's ass ...or he doesn't exist.

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This one is not worth the time, folks.  I suspect even the lurkers are bored and have moved on.

 

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I find this SV person to be rather entertaining...especially with all the "demon attack" talk. Lmao :D

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22 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

What are you talking about. If panspermia was real, the life would have to come from somewhere, meaning it was either created or abiogenesis happened. Panspermia is not a means by which life comes from non-life, just like how heating food up is not a means of creating food from nothing.

 

Alien seeding? You mean aliens that are alive and have to have come from creation or abiogenesis? Aliens are not a means by which life comes from non-life. You're supposed to be bullying me, accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

 

If life exists, it was created, or it was abiogenesis. Anything living does not create abiogenesis. Does that make sense? Hope that helps.

 

Edit:

Biology; the study of living things

Biochemistry; the study of the chemistry of living things

Amino acids are the building blocks of living things

You cannot create all the amino acids essential for living things under ideal conditions, let alone chaotic conditions.

 

Just thought I'd add this in case you thought I was claiming that panspermia brought life to Earth. Even if it had amino acids on it, none of them could contribute to the formation of life. Protip; we use stomach acid to break down amino acids. Friendly reminder; stomach acid contains hydrochloric acid.

 

[ Assuming that the gases we presently observe were also released by early volcanoes the atmosphere would be made of water vapor (H2O), carbon monoxide (CO), carbon dioxide (CO2), hydrochloric acid (HCl), methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), nitrogen (N2), & sulfur gases.]

 

 

Yes, Forest. 

 

I was talking about some of the ways in which people think life may have started on earth. The context is clear. In my previous post I described the deeper issue. Infinite replication paradox and similar ideas extending back to the real big questions. Which go beyond the "god did it" explanations...

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7 hours ago, midniterider said:

And why the heck cant I see New Zealand from the USA with a pair of binoculars? Or a telescope. I have even been way up high in several airplanes and have never ever been able to see New Zealand.

 

Shhh

 

You'll get @mwc excited! He doesn't think we exist down here, but we do. It's our secret ok?

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1 hour ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Yes, Forest. 

 

I was talking about some of the ways in which people think life may have started on earth. The context is clear. In my previous post I described the deeper issue. Infinite replication paradox and similar ideas extending back to the real big questions. Which go beyond the "god did it" explanations...

If aliens exist, are they alive? (I don't believe they are real)

If they are alive are they created or was abiogenesis real? (Life does not come from non-life)

If aliens created life on earth, it does not answer the question; did God create life (alien or otherwise) or was it abiogenesis?

 

Do asteroids carry amino acids through solar systems and deposit those acids on planets, i.e. panspermia? (I don't believe so)

If so have any of the dozens of required amino acids been found together naturally anywhere, ever, that are required to make life? (No)

Does an early Earth atmosphere in theory contain anything that is harmful to amino acids? (Yes, the atmosphere itself literally breaks down the building blocks of life).

 

The "real big questions" you talk of is just 1 ultimate question. Did God create life or was it abiogenesis?

 

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1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

If aliens exist, are they alive? (I don't believe they are real)

 

In the context of what is being discussed, if aliens exist, then ipso facto they are alive. Also what you believe is irrelevant. Reality really doesn't give a shit about your beliefs.

 

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

If they are alive are they created or was abiogenesis real? (Life does not come from non-life)

 

You haven't demonstrated that life cannot come from non life. It's a bold assertion. It sounds intuitive, but many things about our world are not intuitively correct.

 

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

If aliens created life on earth, it does not answer the question; did God create life (alien or otherwise) or was it abiogenesis?

 

I agree. Sound the bells, blow the trumpets. Silent Voice has managed to say something intelligent.

 

Of course if there are other life forms out there, and particularly if they are intelligent, it would raise HUGE theological issues. I haven't read in the bible where God made other planets with other garden of Eden's.

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"You haven't demonstrated that life cannot come from non life"

 

I wish your keyboard would come alive and smack you in the face. Until people observe that life can start from inanimate objects, then I will continue to worship God.

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Please demonstrate this God you worship. 

 

 

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