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“The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us our errors, to save us from our childish mistakes. But knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable. If we crave some cosmic purpose, then let us find ourselves a worthy goal.” Carl Sagan

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As moderators, we have this entire website under our purview.  This includes newly deconverted members who are still struggling, christians who are facing crises of faith, and lurkers who might be any

A diagnosis couldn't be done without a full evaluation, but I am a retired Psychiatric Social Worker and can pick up clues from what is posted.  I PMed SV and highly suspect he has a mental disorder,

“The significance of our lives and our fragile planet is then determined only by our own wisdom and courage. We are the custodians of life's meaning. We long for a Parent to care for us, to forgive us

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Science draws closer to the truth by admitting its mistakes and adopting new theories.

 

Religion claims to already have the truth and refuses to admit its errors.

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On 6/26/2020 at 1:30 PM, SilentVoice said:

How does leaving the abundant food of leaves give them an advantage in competing for food? There are fewer flowers containing nectar than there are leaves to eat. Do you have any idea of the ratio between the mass of available leaves to eat for a caterpillar and the mass of itself? It could spend a million years eating leaves and still only eat a few trees worth of food. How does a caterpillar have to compete for food? None of them do. How does turning in to a butterfly give them an advantage? They have LESS food to eat and are more vulnerable to attack from predators. Spending time in a cocoon makes them even more vulnerable.

 

You are utterly failing to explain the evolutionary purpose in question. No living species has a need to change in to another form, nor do environmental factors force it to happen.

 

Butterflies have WORSE survival prospects. You have failed once again to defend your stupid theories.

 

Butterflies are the means by which caterpillars can transport themselves over great distances.  This enables, for example, monarch butterflies to spend the winter in Mexico but come to my garden in Manitoba in June and July to eat from milkweed plants.

 

And the butterflies just have to live long enough to lay eggs.  That's it.  That's all.

 

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7 hours ago, freshstart said:

Just curious, SV . . .do you trust medical science (which is also ever-changing)? Are you the sort of Christian who only believes certain sciences are to be trusted or do you shun science altogether because all if it is ever-changing as new discoveries are made?

No I don't trust some of the things in medical science. I'll give a few examples. Radiotherapy, there are medical doctors telling people that they'd never undergo that treatment or accept it for their children because there are other treatments which are not accepted as valid by the medical community. My favourite example to use when people criticize me for being an idiot who believes the bible is the treatment invented to 'cure depression'. What kind of sick mind do you think you'd need to have, to be sitting there and then for you to think... wow that's the answer to depression... I will take this long metal spike and hammer it through eye sockets and scramble the patient's brain, by destroying their personality I will cure the problem. Yes, lobotomy was an accepted medical treatment. Nobody here can freely admit that they think this is a good idea, nor would they want it to happen if they felt depressed. What kind of sick person thinks of these things?

 

Also, these same people are why America's health care system is insane.

 

tv1uy0yx9zy41.jpg

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1 hour ago, SilentVoice said:

 My favourite example to use when people criticize me for being an idiot who believes the bible is the treatment invented to 'cure depression'. What kind of sick mind do you think you'd need to have, to be sitting there and then for you to think... wow that's the answer to depression... I will take this long metal spike and hammer it through eye sockets and scramble the patient's brain, by destroying their personality I will cure the problem. Yes, lobotomy was an accepted medical treatment. Nobody here can freely admit that they think this is a good idea, nor would they want it to happen if they felt depressed. What kind of sick person thinks of these things?

 

Also, these same people are why America's health care system is insane.

Well, look at that.  Seems to me that you just acknowledged that through the hard work of researchers and an ever growing base of knowledge, science improves and corrections are made to past mistakes.   I freely admit, lobotomy is a horrific “treatment”, but it isn’t something that is used anymore, because medical science got better, just like all fields of science.  That has basically been the point that many people have been trying to make.

 

Also, if one disregards the assumption that the American healthcare system’s primary purpose is the benefit of patients, it works extremely well.

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8 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Radiotherapy

Had a family friend with brain tumours.  Her choice was radiotherapy or death, so she picked life.  That was almost a decade ago now, and she is still cancer free to this day.  Sure you wouldn't pick radiation as your first choice, but it absolutely saves lives.

 

Are you an anti-vaxxer?

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Interesting icon SV recently started using! I hope he gets help soon.

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43 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Interesting icon SV recently started using! I hope he gets help soon.

 

I believe that's set from the mods. He's been restricted to the Lion's Den, and I think that's the icon (Instead of the Authentic Christian icon) that is used. Reserved for religious folk who don't quite know who to read, comprehend, and follow forum posting rules.  (I could be wrong though... I know nothing!).

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3 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I believe that's set from the mods. He's been restricted to the Lion's Den, and I think that's the icon (Instead of the Authentic Christian icon) that is used (I could be wrong though... I know nothing!). Reserved for religious folk who don't quite know who to read, comprehend, and follow forum posting rules.

 

Generally when someone gets that particular icon, they're on borrowed time.  Either they cross a line that brings out the banhammer, or they flounce out of here because they don't like the icon.

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3 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

I believe that's set from the mods. He's been restricted to the Lion's Den, and I think that's the icon (Instead of the Authentic Christian icon) that is used. Reserved for religious folk who don't quite know who to read, comprehend, and follow forum posting rules.  (I could be wrong though... I know nothing!).

 

Now that I look at it again, it is not in the place where the icon goes.  If you are right, that is a really crude way to treat someone who is likely mentally ill.  And I have suspected other "trolls" have had mental problems.

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Weezer, it's entirely possible that a lot of trolls do have psychiatric conditions.  However, in the aggregate we are not mental health professionals and aren't in a position to provide help with any such conditions.  All we can do is tailor our responses according to our perceptions, and get the mods involved if things escalate.

 

Personally, I suspect that SV is having us on -- and that he's also the reincarnation of a user banned from Ex-C four or five years ago (although the user name doesn't spring to mind).  There's something in the writing style that sounds oddly familiar to my ears.

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10 minutes ago, Weezer said:

 

Now that I look at it again, it is not in the place where the icon goes.  If you are right, that is a really crude way to treat someone who is likely mentally ill.  And I have suspected other "trolls" have had mental problems.

We would welcome a clinical diagnosis for each troll. Unfortunately we're not equipped to evaluate and diagnose the mental state of posters. You know, like every other site.

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12 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

What kind of sick mind do you think you'd need to have, to be sitting there and then for you to think... wow that's the answer to depression... I will take this long metal spike and hammer it through eye sockets and scramble the patient's brain, by destroying their personality I will cure the problem. Yes, lobotomy was an accepted medical treatment. Nobody here can freely admit that they think this is a good idea, nor would they want it to happen if they felt depressed. What kind of sick person thinks of these things?

 

 

Same kind of mind you need to sacrifice a human being to wash away 'sins' when really you could just forget about sin. 

 

Same kind of mind needed to order Abraham to go kill his son Isaac, then say "Wait, just kidding."  

 

Same kind of mind you'd need to drown everyone on earth in a big flood. 

 

Same kind of mind you'd need to let Satan fuck with Job. 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, florduh said:

We would welcome a clinical diagnosis for each troll. Unfortunately we're not equipped to evaluate and diagnose the mental state of posters. You know, like every other site.

 

I'm just a layman, but it appears that he has his head up his ass. :) 

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8 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

I'm just a layman, but it appears that he has his head up his ass. :) 

 

 

Ah.  Craniorectal impaction.  Difficult condition to treat.

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Well, I don't know about y'all; but I used to be a lot like SilentVoice.  I'm not going to say it's a mental illness or it ain't because I don't know.  What I do know is that I ended up with my own share of psychological and emotional issues, many of which I'm still dealing with.

 

He was disciplined for his failure to comply with our rules.  Hopefully this will be the end of it.

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1 hour ago, Astreja said:

Ah.  Craniorectal impaction.  Difficult condition to treat.

 

Classic!

 

I'm going to remember this so next time I'm debating someone and I want to tell them their head is up their arse I will simply say:

 

You are suffering from Craniorectal impaction. :D 

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1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Well, I don't know about y'all; but I used to be a lot like SilentVoice

Do you think it flows that being taught fundamentalist ideology makes you more open to the other conspiracy theories?  I have certainly seen many flat earthers who will quote the bible, but no idea what percentage of them that would be.

Is it just being taught anti-science, anti-teacher, anti-authority, kind of thing that then makes these other crazy ideas sound very believable because you are starting from that negative view of mainstream education?

Do you think being taught religion is a gateway to other crazy ideas? 

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5 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Do you think it flows that being taught fundamentalist ideology makes you more open to the other conspiracy theories?  I have certainly seen many flat earthers who will quote the bible, but no idea what percentage of them that would be.

Is it just being taught anti-science, anti-teacher, anti-authority, kind of thing that then makes these other crazy ideas sound very believable because you are starting from that negative view of mainstream education?

Do you think being taught religion is a gateway to other crazy ideas? 

I don't know.  Likely there's enough evidence to suggest correlation.  Probably not enough to establish causation, though.  Personally, I never bought into flat earth or other conspiracy theories. 

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6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Do you think it flows that being taught fundamentalist ideology makes you more open to the other conspiracy theories?  I have certainly seen many flat earthers who will quote the bible, but no idea what percentage of them that would be.

Is it just being taught anti-science, anti-teacher, anti-authority, kind of thing that then makes these other crazy ideas sound very believable because you are starting from that negative view of mainstream education?

Do you think being taught religion is a gateway to other crazy ideas? 

 

I was a young earther, but never a flat earther. Either way, back then I was much more inclined to buy into conspiracy theories,  because I had fully bought the idea that science,  essentially, is a conspiracy. It wasn't until after I studied it for a while that I realized that science isn't a conspiracy. Then things fell apart.

 

So yes, I think religious indoctrination does pave the way to other crazy ideas. 

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I'm with D on this one. I think at least fundamentalist religious indoctrination paves the way for crazy ideas because they tend to reject science as a path to knowledge. Once you do that then the door is left wide open to whatever other weird ideas take your fancy.

 

While I never was a flat earther at various times the church went through various conspiracies: Moon hoax, evolution created to destroy God, 9/11 truther, as well as believing some just out there shit like in Noah's day they had atomic power and that's how they built the pyramids and so on.

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6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

Do you think it flows that being taught fundamentalist ideology makes you more open to the other conspiracy theories?  I have certainly seen many flat earthers who will quote the bible, but no idea what percentage of them that would be.

Is it just being taught anti-science, anti-teacher, anti-authority, kind of thing that then makes these other crazy ideas sound very believable because you are starting from that negative view of mainstream education?

Do you think being taught religion is a gateway to other crazy ideas? 


It turns out the answer is YES. It’s called Teleological Thinking:

 

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/theres-a-psychological-link-between-conspiracy-theories-and-creationism-101849

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1 hour ago, LostinParis said:

So there is correlation; but causation has not been established.

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When it comes to Teleological thinking creationists, science-deniers and conspiracy theorists haven't cornered the market.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe

 

Those Christians who do accept science often appeal to the Fine-Tuned universe argument in their apologetics. (See section 6 of this Wiki page.)

 

Which just goes to show that, even if you accept or deny science, teleological thinking is deeply-ingrained in your psyche.

 

And it seems to be present very early on in our development, as opposed to being an acquired characteristic.

 

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2004-19055-003

http://nm.cms-devl.bu.edu/cdl/files/2013/08/1999_Kelemen_Scope.pdf

http://cognitionandculture.net/wp-content/uploads/1999_Kelemen_FunctionsGoalsIntentions.pdf

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1999-01076-008

https://www.grin.com/document/356506

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5296364/

 

I'd hazard (without any kind of expertise) that in adults, who are aware of their mortality, it's a kind comfort-seeking policy of terror management.

 

Better to believe that reality and your life has meaning, rather than face up to the possibility that you and everything else actually mean nothing.

 

But quite why it seems to be something we are born with, I don't know.

 

One thing I do know, however, is that both a science-denying creationist and a science-embracing Christian would give the same reason as to why children think teleologically.

 

God did it.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 1:09 AM, Astreja said:

 

Butterflies are the means by which caterpillars can transport themselves over great distances.  This enables, for example, monarch butterflies to spend the winter in Mexico but come to my garden in Manitoba in June and July to eat from milkweed plants.

 

And the butterflies just have to live long enough to lay eggs.  That's it.  That's all.

 

Actually it's generations of butterflies....reasonably sure the butterflies that overwinter in Mexico don't

make it back to Canada...

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