Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Belief (The human delusion)


AntiChrist

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, EnaUnited said:

I haven't found any compelling evidence that the human brain needs or uses beliefs to assist with transitioning from the unknown to the known. Although the brain does have the capacity for imagination and fantasizing, but it does know all along that those types of thoughts are not real.

 

What exactly do you mean by "known" and "unknown"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/20/2020 at 8:52 PM, disillusioned said:

 

What exactly do you mean by "known" and "unknown"?

(That people think it is normal to form a belief about something they don't know until all the facts becomes known)

 

But then what people believe is what appeals to them emotionally. That emotional weight itself ruins their capacity to remain unbiased, and warps an accurate rendering of the facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, EnaUnited said:

(That people think it is normal to form a belief about something they don't know until all the facts becomes known)

 

But then what people believe is what appeals to them emotionally. That emotional weight itself ruins their capacity to remain unbiased, and warps an accurate rendering of the facts.

 

 

I sorry,  I don't find this particularly clear.

 

You seem to be saying that belief has to do with emotional appeal necessarily. I don't think this is the case. Yes,  sometimes it does, but not always. I also still have no idea what you mean by "knowledge/know/known". If you could clearly state this, I think it would be helpful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/24/2020 at 11:03 PM, disillusioned said:

 

I sorry,  I don't find this particularly clear.

 

You seem to be saying that belief has to do with emotional appeal necessarily. I don't think this is the case. Yes,  sometimes it does, but not always. I also still have no idea what you mean by "knowledge/know/known". If you could clearly state this, I think it would be helpful.

If you have eliminated all emotional and mental development of the Christian belief system, you already understand what I am talking about. I only arrived at my present conclusion about the nature of belief, because once the Christian delusion was dealt with in my brain I had the tool I needed for eliminating the formation of any other belief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, EnaUnited said:

If you have eliminated all emotional and mental development of the Christian belief system, you already understand what I am talking about. I only arrived at my present conclusion about the nature of belief, because once the Christian delusion was dealt with in my brain I had the tool I needed for eliminating the formation of any other belief.

 

I'm afraid this is just wrong. 

 

Lots of philosophers and thinkers have ideas about knowledge and belief which are different from yours, as far as I can tell (which isn't very far, because you won't actually state plainly what you take these terms to mean). Many of these people were never Christians.

 

Even if you have taken a revolutionary step forward which depends on your completely dealing with the effects of Christianity, it in no way follows that everyone who has dealt with those effects will take the same step. That's just logically fallacious. For that matter, my own thoughts on truth, knowledge, and belief would not have been possible under a Christian mindset. Yet, there are many who either don't understand or don't agree with me. And that's fine.

 

All I'm asking here is that you try to explain clearly what you are trying to say. You don't seem to want to do this,  which is fine,  but I'm afraid unless you do there's no point in continuing the conversation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

I'm afraid this is just wrong. 

 

Lots of philosophers and thinkers have ideas about knowledge and belief which are different from yours, as far as I can tell (which isn't very far, because you won't actually state plainly what you take these terms to mean). Many of these people were never Christians.

 

Even if you have taken a revolutionary step forward which depends on your completely dealing with the effects of Christianity, it in no way follows that everyone who has dealt with those effects will take the same step. That's just logically fallacious. For that matter, my own thoughts on truth, knowledge, and belief would not have been possible under a Christian mindset. Yet, there are many who either don't understand or don't agree with me. And that's fine.

 

All I'm asking here is that you try to explain clearly what you are trying to say. You don't seem to want to do this,  which is fine,  but I'm afraid unless you do there's no point in continuing the conversation.

You have invented an assumption that the concept I present is implausible. From that assumption you would believe a negative and associate that negative with the information traveling to your visual cortex. (Exactly as I have explained previously) You demand the evidence now! But I have been doing that while stuck mainly with presenting it around your objections.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, EnaUnited said:

You have invented an assumption that the concept I present is implausible. From that assumption you would believe a negative and associate that negative with the information traveling to your visual cortex. (Exactly as I have explained previously) You demand the evidence now! But I have been doing that while stuck mainly with presenting it around your objections.

 

No, I just don't understand what you are trying to present. I'm asking you to state it clearly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

No, I just don't understand what you are trying to present. I'm asking you to state it clearly.

Clearly, mmm  k

 

Do you actually know love is real, or do you believe love is real. (I only ask because I would naturally think you do love your child)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, EnaUnited said:

Clearly, mmm  k

 

Do you actually know love is real, or do you believe love is real. (I only ask because I would naturally think you do love your child)

 

 

 

I'm afraid I can't answer this on your vocabulary unless you tell me what you mean by "belief" and "knowledge". I can answer on my vocabulary, but it seems you don't like my vocabulary. Nevertheless, on my vocabulary knowledge is a type of belief. So I both know and believe that love is real.

 

Seriously, what is your aversion to plainly stating what you take "knowledge" and "belief" to mean?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, disillusioned said:

 

I'm afraid I can't answer this on your vocabulary unless you tell me what you mean by "belief" and "knowledge". I can answer on my vocabulary, but it seems you don't like my vocabulary. Nevertheless, on my vocabulary knowledge is a type of belief. So I both know and believe that love is real.

 

Seriously, what is your aversion to plainly stating what you take "knowledge" and "belief" to mean?

When I say 'belief' it is in the same manner as anyone who leaves a fundamental love camp does.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, EnaUnited said:

When I say 'belief' it is in the same manner as anyone who leaves a fundamental love camp does.

 

 

If this is all you can do, then I'm afraid this conversation is over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, disillusioned said:

 

If this is all you can do, then I'm afraid this conversation is over.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, EnaUnited said:

 

I did not know of Osho prior 2019-2020. It was only after I discovered a link between my schizophrenia and belief that I found his information online. We have absolutely no connection, we come from two entirely different cultures and from different time periods.  (Yet I arrived at the same conclusion about belief that he did)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Before I discuss the connection between schizophrenia and belief, I must explain that my absence regarding this topic has been due to a transitional period locating stable accommodation (I need not go into that here)

 

However I will not jump completely into that side of the theory untill I explain certain side effects of that mental illness. One common side effect that is well documented about schizophrenia is "Paranoia" the person exhibits an irrational preoccupation with thinking that what their sensory perception is reading from the reality around them is somehow connected to them.

 

This concept of paranoid relations to reality is not the full story. The reason that gives rise to paranoia occurs after a period of time when a person has attached a string of beliefs to incoming sensory information that the brain must draw thoughts from. Paranoia is not a sickness, but an early warning system that thoughts occuring from those sensory processors of the brain are false. Consider that unpleasant mental sensations such as paranoia, or other types (Like fear) serve to protect us. (Since a pleasant sensation would not act as a useful deterrent, when a person is at risk body, mind or emotion)

 

Consider also that we multitask from one thought to another, and paranoid sensations about reality is a warning that we are multitasking from one thought thats based on a belief to another.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another well documented side effect of schizophrenia is sensory hallucination. Although this appears to be paramount in determining the illness itself, it is actually the best way to determine the faulty beliefs of the person themselves. Once beliefs have attached themselves to the persons sensory information, and when they become numerous in number the persons rational sensory understanding of reality around them breaks down to the point that the brain must defend it's sensory stability. So the brain projects those beliefs that are infecting the persons mind outward. (I am not entirely sure why at this point)

 

Also it's noteworthy to add two extra proofs.

 

A. (It is rare for children to form schizophrenia) Because they have not formed as many beliefs as adults.

 

B. (Drug related psychosis) Because those particular drugs (Such as ice) inhibits the person from remaining wholly rational when they comput sensory information, and leaves them expanding their belief systems rapidly over a short period of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you like me to end this topic?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

 

:freak3:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Rebooting the thread.

 

As I outlined beliefs being the cause of schizophrenia/bipolar disorder, and many other societal disorders that I might discuss. I can verify for a fact that the cumulative effects of beliefs are very severe. 

 

I will use two term's herein.

 

1. Fringe beliefs

2. Belief habit

 

1 (A fringe belief, are beliefs that lie outside of the current belief norm's of a nominal functioning society)

 

2 (A belief habit, is a description of people being dependant on a particular set belief or beliefs)

 

Being a participant of fringe beliefs, I was effected by schizophrenia around 2006. Caused by a shift in my religious beliefs that threw my understanding of sensory reality well outside the safe societal moral zones. Although medication allowed me relief from falling into psychosis, it did not prevent me from forming new beliefs.

 

Since recently I have discovered that beliefs are the issue, I have successfully transitioned off all medications for 22 months. I am no longer effected by that type of illness, and have suffered no psychotic relapse in that period.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, AntiChrist said:

I apologize, I reposted my own post.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Continued:

 

There is a significant difference between forming a fantasy about something, and a belief about something. There is a area in the human brain that can distinguish imagined thing's as non-real sensory information, and other area's of the brain that do know what is real sensory information. Belief is completely unlike a fantasy that it is forming thoughts as if they could be real (True) 

 

But for a belief(s) to become real to the brain, a person has to fully accept that their belief or belief's are truth. That approach has only one term (Surrender) Possibly a full acceptance of belief before the facts, but I can not be completely sure what that experience is like. But I think when that happens, what was only a belief only a fight to be accepted as true, becomes real to that person through and through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...
On 6/10/2020 at 7:47 AM, AntiChrist said:

I have, it's what you'd expect for a dollar.

But my argument is not with the coffee itself, it is how belief can be used in any situation to convert people. I don't think it is religion itself that causes suffering, I think it's the propensity to believe that causes suffering. (Religion is not the cause of beliefs, beliefs are the cause of religion)

@AntiChrist 

I think this is the same concept and  warning in Buddhism against STRIVING, false attachment or delusion, or indoctrination by authority of others instead of proof and reason behind our choice to accept.

 

There is nothing wrong with universal beliefs that come naturally.

 

We all believe in some sense of truth or justice, that is faith based but we inherently hold naturally without striving.

 

We believe what we remember from the past, or dream at night. Though we cannot prove what we dreamed, we generally believe each other.

 

Someday, how people talk about spiritual experiences will be accepted as normal, like discussing the meaning of dreams without any need to argue or prove.

 

When beliefs get so biased they conflict and exclude others, that is what harms relations and communication.

 

As long as we forgive differences, we can all have our own beliefs and process. And just learn to listen to the raw concepts someone means, not get caught up in the language they use to express their thoughts, whether religious, political or neutral.

 

Thanks for the referral and link!

 

One of my favorite mentors quit his Baptist pastoring at 19 and became a lifelong atheist advocate for prison reform, still teaching free grace abd forgiveness for humanity sake but without religion the Bible God or Chr

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.