Christians cannot use God and no to taxes

[Skeptics]

If christians were to say to IRS that they pray and objects appear and sell them (without pay taxes) and they have the right not to pay taxes, no christian country will believe them.

But it is also a contradiction of give Caesar which is for Caesar (pay taxes) vs pray.

[Geezer]

No politician in America has the courage to challenge religions tax exempt status. That is America’s version of a sacred cow. 

[AliT]

Interesting one from Australia. 

 

Don't these idiots realise that their own bible tells them to pay taxes?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/18/family-that-refused-to-pay-tax-because-it-was-against-gods-will-ordered-to-pay-23m

[MOHO]

Stupid that they did not realize that the Bible instructs the sheeple to pay taxes and obey rulers and lawmakers.

Selfish that they don't realize their taxes pay for the services they use.

Most states or countries demand too much $$ but not paying taxes altogether is not the best approach.

 

So, did they really expect the taxman to rollover and are they truly earnest in their beliefs or did they just make a feeble-minded attempt at bullshiting the courts?

[MOHO]

On 6/18/2020 at 8:23 PM, Skeptics said:

If christians were to say to IRS that they pray and objects appear and sell them (without pay taxes) and they have the right not to pay taxes, no christian country will believe them.

But it is also a contradiction of give Caesar which is for Caesar (pay taxes) vs pray.

 

I don't believe there is a concept of pay taxes OR pray as far as any legitimate religion goes.

The Bible clearly indicates paying taxes (and tithing by the way) are commanded. I'm too lazy to lookup the passages but they are easily found on the Interwebs.

[Skeptics]

But if someone sell stolen goods and if caught say that God miraculously gived them, they cannot say that they have the right to sell them without pay taxes ?

Faith = no need for proof.

[Justus]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:23 PM, Skeptics said:

But it is also a contradiction of give Caesar which is for Caesar (pay taxes) vs pray.

 

That's why Jesus rebuked the rich young ruler that called him Good Master by simply asking the Roman "why do you call me good, there is none good but Caesar."  

[Moonobserver]

The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment means that houses of worship are exempt from paying taxes and, in return, they refrain from political activity like telling their congregants how to vote in public elections. That's the trade-off. 

 

When someone tells you that they don't believe in the separation of church and state, ask them if their church has been paying its taxes.

[LogicalFallacy]

On 7/3/2020 at 3:23 AM, Moonobserver said:

The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment means that houses of worship are exempt from paying taxes and, in return, they refrain from political activity like telling their congregants how to vote in public elections. That's the trade-off. 

 

Except you can bet that churches and pastors DO tell their congregations how to vote. It's a win-win for churches.

[sdelsolray]

On 7/2/2020 at 8:23 AM, Moonobserver said:

The Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment means that houses of worship are exempt from paying taxes and, in return, they refrain from political activity like telling their congregants how to vote in public elections. That's the trade-off. 

 

When someone tells you that they don't believe in the separation of church and state, ask them if their church has been paying its taxes.

 

Not quite right.  The US Tax Code provides the law under which religious entities are exempt from tax, more specifically the statutes and regulations dealing with tax exempt entities, starting with 26 USC § 501.

The US Constitution, as amended, does not address the taxation of houses of worship.

 

There are statutes and regulations which more precisely govern when an exempt organization can lose its tax exemption, in whole or in part, due to certain activities.  One example is certain political activity by churches.

[alreadyGone]

This topic is one of the foremost reasons Christian ministers lost all credibility with me.

 

Christians in the U.S. are adamant that the government has no lawful power to tax churches. Yet if you ask "what/who is the church?", the answer is always "the church is the gathered believers in the gospel".

 

Ask "from where does the federal government gain the lawful power to impose a tax on personal income?", then they cite Jesus' response to the Pharisees, with no further thought or consideration. 

 

So they've entered into that never-never land of accepting two opposite things as truth wherein they hedge their bets, by each church's acceptance of the 501(c)3 contract to avoid taxes imposed upon the organization.

 

With regard to the income-tax Christian ministers will always defer to that one scripture and seem to never have any other opinion or knowledge (in my experience).

 

Assume for the moment that Jesus was a real person, and that the conversation about taxes went as the bible relates it...

 

That Jesus supposedly stated "give to Caesar that which is Caesar's, give to God what belongs to God " points to a definite truth. But that truth is the precise opposite of the common belief that Jesus was instructing us  "if someone in authority orders you to pay a tax then as an obedient Christian you must pay it."

 

That isn't what Jesus said in the scriptures at all:  He said that the coin which he asked the Pharisees to produce belonged, by right, to Caesar.

Here in the United States of America, we have NO CAESAR.

A coin in biblical times was real money. It could have been bronze or even tin or lead and it still had real intrinsic market value. Metals were very scarce at that time, and to produce even a pound of lead was very labor-intensive.

So a physical coin, of any metal.... gold, silver, copper, lead or bronze was a store of objective, intrinsic value.

 

Here in the U.S. (with apologies for the moment to those of other nations) the Constitution is the law. And the Constitution has instruction on the responsibilities of government in regard to currency. Article 1 Section 8 confers upon Congress the responsibility to create a national currency and regulate it's value.

NOWHERE is there the authority to delegate that responsibility to ANYONE else.

 

A corresponding clause is in regard to the responsibilities of the states. Article 1 Section 10 forbids the states from doing their business in ANYTHING but god or silver coin.

Those two clauses of the Constitution are the two most ignored and abrogated of the entire charter. This results in the destruction of real wealth from the hands of those who actually earn it, and the extreme disparity of wealth we see today.

 

Christian ministers tell people that "Jesus commands you to pay all taxes" and it's total bullshit. People see what they want to see.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alreadyGone]

Yes, the bible commands obedience to appointed authority.

In my view, it's extremely important to avoid conflating all taxes, as if they are all the same thing. There are lawful and necessary taxes, the price we pay to live together in an ordered society.

 

A tax on income however is a tax on your very right to live and exist.

No human can live without property and physical possessions.

Human beings are the only animal on earth not able to survive in the natural environment. We are required by our physical nature to create artifacts that enable us to survive. Currency and free-will trade are the only means by which humans can live together in the physical world.

 

To impose a tax on your right to earn the means to your own sustenance is a tax on your very life, your right to life on earth.

To impose a progressive penalty on the productivity of each member of society benefits society as a whole, how exactly?  The very premise is irrational and insane.