Example: Human behaviour from today and in the OT proves bible god is not real

[Steviejay]

The story of Aaron, Moses's side kick, is proof to me that Bible god is all man made crap

 

It's very simple...Here's why

 

Just imagine christians today. They've never seen this god of theirs, he's never verbally spoken to them, he's never shown himself etc etc and it's all just an illusion of the brain..... but there are many christians that will never except the truth that their doctrine is fake, no matter what, inspite of the total lack of any evidence...They remain absolutely convinced their book character, god is REAL

 

Now let's have a quick look at one moment in time during the EXODUS concerning Aaron

 

During the Exodus, Moses and Aaron saw many miracles from god. You know...The 10 plagues of Egypt etc etc. and these men SAW THESE MIRACLES. You can look them all up if you so desire. So Moses goes up the mountain to collect the 10 commandments and disappears for rather a long time. To cut a long story short the guys down below become restless and come to Aaron to ask if they can make a golden calf because they need a god to worship

 

Now what would you expect Aaron to say to these restless guys down below based on the evidence of christian behavior today IF THE STORY WAS TRUE, and remember it was after Aaron had SEEN the amazing wonders and miracles that this OT god had performed....

 

So, there's no doubt about it based on today.....He would say to the guys below “Not a chance, there's no way I'm agreeing to worshiping a golden calf instead of Yahweh because I have witnessed the wonders of his miracles and there is definitely no other god. He has shown he is REAL, he has shown his powers, he has shown his strength, he has totally proved that he is REAL this god is absolutely amazing and 100% REAL because I have seen it with my own eyes.” Even Christians today who have seen Jack shit evidence from this imaginary sky fairy still will defend their book character, god, to the absolute ultimate, without a jot of evidence.

 

But what really happens next in the story proves that the book writers didn't take into consideration this die hard attitude that humans have despite the lack of the evidence christians have today.........

 

…...In my own words, Aaron says “Yep Lads, I agree we need a god. Bring me all your gold and we'll melt it down and make a giant golden calf to worship”....... By all accounts he didn't even bother arguing!!!! This would NEVER of happened in a million years proving that the story is completely fictitious and that bible god doesn't exist

 

There must be many more examples of human behaviour in the bible that proves certain stories could, and would of never happened that way

[Joshpantera]

Right, and the deeper issue is that the story is coming from a pre-monotheistic time in judaism. It was no big deal to worship an idol, because they were polytheistic until much, much later in their religious evolution. When looking back at stories after the monotheistic evolution was complete, many things don't add up and essentially represent traces of polytheistic times. Even down to Psalms 82 where El Elyon, the most high god, is telling the lower gods of the pantheon that they will die like mortal men, and stumble around in the darkness of sheol. YHWH was merely a national and tribal god. The moses story ushers in a way of trying to give an origin story about YHWH becoming the tribal and then national god. Which appears to be a back dated story. The conflict was over the tribal god being jealous of the others. And eventually, the others being considered fake, phantoms and not real. By the time of the 2nd century, christians were being called atheists due to their disbelief in all of the other gods of the greco-roman world. This was a slow process of believing in many gods, worshiping a national god, then making the national god universal, and disbelieving in everyone else's gods. 

 

 

Fast forward through time, and the age of enlightenment took it one step further in this chain of logical deduction. And disbelief in YHWH began to spread. A logical deduction from many gods, to one god, to no god. The whole theology in of itself becoming the fake news, not 'the good news.'  

[SilentVoice]

4 hours ago, Steviejay said:

…...In my own words, Aaron says “Yep Lads, I agree we need a god. Bring me all your gold and we'll melt it down and make a giant golden calf to worship”....... By all accounts he didn't even bother arguing!!!! This would NEVER of happened in a million years proving that the story is completely fictitious and that bible god doesn't exist

There's your problem. In your own words. Try using the actual words to establish the truth and context. There's that word again. Truth.

 

^{1 ...} the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

²¹ And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?

²² And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.

 

So the scene; tens of thousands of people crowding round a priest, talking down at him, telling him to make some idols to worship. Though he could have probably tried to rebuke them, these were violent, mischievous and spiritually blind people and they probably would have killed him.

 

Congratulations, you now see how absurd it was for a bunch of people to see miracles and yet still prefer to worship golden calves. Or the time when an army marched towards Jerusalem so Jesus (the angel of the Lord) came down and killed 185,000 of them overnight. But instead of being afraid of God, they just marched home to worship their sticks/stones/whatever else.

 

Or just like how truth can be presented to you countless times and you still reply with anger, moving the goal posts and false accusations all while claiming that truth is relevant to you. I've got news for you, mate. You need to start putting truth higher than your agenda.

[Hierophant]

If I remember correctly, I have heard it argued the calf was supposed to be a representation of what YHWH looked like, not necessarily a god made out of whole cloth. They were asking for a symbol, something tangible that they could identify YHWH with.

[Steviejay]

3 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

There's your problem. In your own words. Try using the actual words to establish the truth and context. There's that word again. Truth.

 

^{1 ...} the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

²¹ And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?

²² And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.

 

So the scene; tens of thousands of people crowding round a priest, talking down at him, telling him to make some idols to worship. Though he could have probably tried to rebuke them, these were violent, mischievous and spiritually blind people and they probably would have killed him.

 

Congratulations, you now see how absurd it was for a bunch of people to see miracles and yet still prefer to worship golden calves. Or the time when an army marched towards Jerusalem so Jesus (the angel of the Lord) came down and killed 185,000 of them overnight. But instead of being afraid of God, they just marched home to worship their sticks/stones/whatever else.

 

Or just like how truth can be presented to you countless times and you still reply with anger, moving the goal posts and false accusations all while claiming that truth is relevant to you. I've got news for you, mate. You need to start putting truth higher than your agenda.

 

Sorry mate

 

It doesn't state that the crowd would kill him. Where's his faith, sounds like he doesn't trust Yahweh but i can'r PROVE that.  Also there is no evidence of the EXODUS anywhere in history or archaeology so as for truth you definitely cannot claim to have it

 

I admit that I maybe should of used the words "probably" "likely" "maybe" "could of" in my Aaron story instead of the word "truth"

 

Now maybe you should back down too with regards to the Bible being the truth.

 

And as for me wearing my heart on my sleeve with regards to Christianity. I take that as a compliment because "I KNOW for myself" after years of indoctrination that Christianity "might not be truth" "possibly incorrect" "brings up numerous doubts" and I have PROOF that Jesus is a LIAR from my scenario 1 in the following. A load of reasons why myself and others should deconvert

[Hierophant]

12 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

There's your problem. In your own words. Try using the actual words to establish the truth and context. There's that word again. Truth.

 

^{1 ...} the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

²¹ And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?

²² And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.

 

So the scene; tens of thousands of people crowding round a priest, talking down at him, telling him to make some idols to worship. Though he could have probably tried to rebuke them, these were violent, mischievous and spiritually blind people and they probably would have killed him.

 

Absolute assertion without evidence. You are stating this as an ad hoc argument to try and win the day. You have no idea what would have happened if he said no, and neither do we. Don't stretch the text any further than the evidence supports, it just becomes axe grinding apologetics. Moreover, that whole scenario sounds absurd. I am not even willing to agree this ever happened as the exodus story is unfounded on evidence. There is no evidence 600,000 men, let alone women and children left Egypt and walked to the promised land. I have heard some estimates of close to 2 million (based on the men, women, and children) people spending 40 years what should have taken 2 weeks. There are no records in Egypt that the ancient Israelites were there as slaves, and definitely not in that number. Archeologist are having a terrible time finding any evidence in the Sinai desert demonstrating Exodus happened as told by the Bible. Matter of fact, studies have shown that the Hebrews were really just a subset of Canaanites.

 

12 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 

Congratulations, you now see how absurd it was for a bunch of people to see miracles and yet still prefer to worship golden calves. Or the time when an army marched towards Jerusalem so Jesus (the angel of the Lord) came down and killed 185,000 of them overnight. But instead of being afraid of God, they just marched home to worship their sticks/stones/whatever else.

 

****Or just like how truth can be presented to you countless times and you still reply with anger, moving the goal posts and false accusations all while claiming that truth is relevant to you. I've got news for you, mate. You need to start putting truth higher than your agenda.****

 

I hate this argument. It is simply an apologetic to defend divine hiding. I spent 15 years trying to figure out the "truth" with a capital 'T.' I read websites, books, everything you can imagine trying to figure out what a REAL Christian was and what it meant to be one in the 21st century. What I eventually realized is that we are too far separated from the purported events in the Bible and that only God could ever tell me what was orthodoxy and orthopraxy. I pleaded with God to give me one hour of his time if eternity was on the line so I could know exactly what he expected of me, and I was willing to sacrifice everything to do it. Well, no one showed up. And I can tell you this, if a god did show up and tell me exactly what to believe and do, I would be doing it to this day. So no, the lame argument of faith does not follow miracles is bogus. Isn't God supposed to be fair and just? If that is the case, then everyone should receive the exact amount of revelation as everyone else, past, present, and future. That is fair and equitable!

 

****You do not know the truth, so I recommend you quit throwing that around. Unless you could demonstrate your theology where it could be objectively tested, refined, and everyone who put it to the test would also reach the same conclusions, you do not know if what you believe and say is true. When I say true, I mean it as it comports to reality.  Your view on reality is based upon one unproven assertion after another.****

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, Steviejay said:

 

Sorry mate

 

It doesn't state that the crowd would kill him. Where's his faith, sounds like he doesn't trust Yahweh but i can'r PROVE that.  Also there is no evidence of the EXODUS anywhere in history or archaeology so as for truth you definitely cannot claim to have it

 

I admit that I maybe should of used the words "probably" "likely" "maybe" "could of" in my Aaron story instead of the word "truth"

 

Now maybe you should back down too with regards to the Bible being the truth.

 

And as for me wearing my heart on my sleeve with regards to Christianity. I take that as a compliment because "I KNOW for myself" after years of indoctrination that Christianity "might not be truth" "possibly incorrect" "brings up numerous doubts" and I have PROOF that Jesus is a LIAR from my scenario 1 in the following. A load of reasons why myself and others should deconvert

 

Even the most faithful people close to God were afraid, made mistakes and got choked up. Moses for example failed right near the end of the journey in to the promised land and God said he wouldn't live to see it. But then because of His grace He actually took Moses up to a mountain and showed him the land from far away to make him cherished. Or an apostle denying Jesus.

 

No, it doesn't say that those violent, mischievous people would kill him. What kind of people do you think would come up to God's priest and say "Up, make us...". This imperative command isn't too friendly, or respectful. Looking at the wider context of the behaviour of these people, I am confident in my assertion. God counted Aaron as part of the people who have gone aside, even though he claimed that the next day was devoted to God. So Aaron made a mistake but Moses understood why because he immediately turned to the people to rebuke them.

 

If you want proof of biblical events, look up the remains of Sodom, the rocks are brittle and battered with solid chunks of sulphur (brimstone). If you want proof of the exodus go to Arabia and look at Mount Sinai but you won't be able to because the Arabs fenced it off to stop people going there. You can find pictures of the Israelite graffiti on rocks, though.

 

 

[Geezer]

There is no proof that anyone has ever experienced a miracle. Miracles are based on hearsay......with no documentation or accompanying verifiable evidence. Additionally, there is no verifiable historical evidence that even suggest Moses and Aaron were real people or the events written about them in the Bible were anything other than myths, stories, & folklore.

 

No Egyptian records have yet been found that indicate the Israelites were ever captive slaves in Egypt or that they escaped from Egypt and wandered in the desert for 40 years. It took them 40 years to travel to Canaan. It should have taken 11 days. 
 

History indicated the Israelites were originally Canaanites and thus chose the Canaanite God Yahweh as their one true God from among the many Gods the Canaanites worshipped. Baal was also a Canaanite God and thus Yahweh’s nemesis.
 

Jews know full well they were originally Canaanites and that their Numerous Canaanite Gods were all manmade. 

[SilentVoice]

2 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

Absolute assertion without evidence. You are stating this as an ad hoc argument to try and win the day. You have no idea what would have happened if he said no, and neither do we. Don't stretch the text any further than the evidence supports, it just becomes axe grinding apologetics. Moreover, that whole scenario sounds absurd. I am not even willing to agree this ever happened as the exodus story is unfounded on evidence. There is no evidence 600,000 men, let alone women and children left Egypt and walked to the promised land. I have heard some estimates of close to 2 million (based on the men, women, and children) people spending 40 years what should have taken 2 weeks. There are no records in Egypt that the ancient Israelites were there as slaves, and definitely not in that number. Archeologist are having a terrible time finding any evidence in the Sinai desert demonstrating Exodus happened as told by the Bible. Matter of fact, studies have shown that the Hebrews were really just a subset of Canaanites.

 

 

Isn't God supposed to be fair and just? If that is the case, then everyone should receive the exact amount of revelation as everyone else, past, present, and future.

 

****You do not know the truth, so I recommend you quit throwing that around. Unless you could demonstrate your theology where it could be objectively tested, refined, and everyone who put it to the test would also reach the same conclusions, you do not know if what you believe and say is true. When I say true, I mean it as it comports to reality.  Your view on reality is based upon one unproven assertion after another.****

Snip.

Sinai is in Arabia. The government has restricted access to Mount Sinai. The evidence is hidden. Why?

 

I'm not here to win the day, just give you truth. I do know the truth. You did too but you've been taken captive. You were probably very important to God, warranting a big enough attack on you to steal you away. I didn't stretch the text, I summed up the scene. Ungodly people surrounding an anointed priest to demand (rudely, presumptuously) to make them idols. Let's further expand on the scene. They are literally camped next to a mountain that is on fire and surrounded by smoke and lightning. But they want to worship a golden animal. Their clothes didn't need replacing or repairing. They didn't need to hunt for food. Their feet didn't ache. They were following a giant pillar of fire guiding them to a promised land. They'd watched hundreds of chariots be drowned in the sea to protect them.

 

WHAT ON EARTH WAS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

 

[Isn't God supposed to be fair and just? If that is the case, then everyone should receive the exact amount of revelation as everyone else, past, present, and future.]

Well I believe in predestination and scripture.

 

1 Corinthians 3

²⁰ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

²¹ If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

Doesn't God give wisdom to people that ask? Or help them that call on Him? Your answer is no, but the truth is yes.

 

Seems like people are appointed different levels of understanding and glory like you might put a sports car next to a broken down tractor. It makes it look better.  Not everyone asks, or loves God. I'd like there to be equal reward in heaven but I don't think it's biblical at all.

 

A final note that you may find interesting. Out of all my interactions here, none has triggered you as much as the word truth.

TRUTH

 

 

[Hierophant]

12 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

No, it doesn't say that those violent, mischievous people would kill him. What kind of people do you think would come up to God's priest and say "Up, make us...". This imperative command isn't too friendly, or respectful. Looking at the wider context of the behaviour of these people, I am confident in my assertion. God counted Aaron as part of the people who have gone aside, even though he claimed that the next day was devoted to God. So Aaron made a mistake but Moses understood why because he immediately turned to the people to rebuke them.

 

You are reading into the texts. Your argument is based on your experience, biases (this does not mean anything negative, it is simply pitfalls in the human mind and we are all guilty of it), and cultural norms to interpret a situation that supposedly happened thousands of years ago. We do not know what kind of people they were or how they thought. Saying we don't know is acceptable. That is something I had to get used to after being a Christian, I got comfortable with saying I don't know when I did not have enough information to form an opinion.

[Tsathoggua9]

5 hours ago, Steviejay said:

The story of Aaron, Moses's side kick, is proof to me that Bible god is all man made crap

 

It's very simple...Here's why

 

Just imagine christians today. They've never seen this god of theirs, he's never verbally spoken to them, he's never shown himself etc etc and it's all just an illusion of the brain..... but there are many christians that will never except the truth that their doctrine is fake, no matter what, inspite of the total lack of any evidence...They remain absolutely convinced their book character, god is REAL

 

Now let's have a quick look at one moment in time during the EXODUS concerning Aaron

 

During the Exodus, Moses and Aaron saw many miracles from god. You know...The 10 plagues of Egypt etc etc. and these men SAW THESE MIRACLES. You can look them all up if you so desire. So Moses goes up the mountain to collect the 10 commandments and disappears for rather a long time. To cut a long story short the guys down below become restless and come to Aaron to ask if they can make a golden calf because they need a god to worship

 

Now what would you expect Aaron to say to these restless guys down below based on the evidence of christian behavior today IF THE STORY WAS TRUE, and remember it was after Aaron had SEEN the amazing wonders and miracles that this OT god had performed....

 

So, there's no doubt about it based on today.....He would say to the guys below “Not a chance, there's no way I'm agreeing to worshiping a golden calf instead of Yahweh because I have witnessed the wonders of his miracles and there is definitely no other god. He has shown he is REAL, he has shown his powers, he has shown his strength, he has totally proved that he is REAL this god is absolutely amazing and 100% REAL because I have seen it with my own eyes.” Even Christians today who have seen Jack shit evidence from this imaginary sky fairy still will defend their book character, god, to the absolute ultimate, without a jot of evidence.

 

But what really happens next in the story proves that the book writers didn't take into consideration this die hard attitude that humans have despite the lack of the evidence christians have today.........

 

…...In my own words, Aaron says “Yep Lads, I agree we need a god. Bring me all your gold and we'll melt it down and make a giant golden calf to worship”....... By all accounts he didn't even bother arguing!!!! This would NEVER of happened in a million years proving that the story is completely fictitious and that bible god doesn't exist

 

There must be many more examples of human behaviour in the bible that proves certain stories could, and would of never happened that way

 

Excellent point! I always thought the same thing with Elijah. After getting help from God in outdoing (and then killing) Baal's prophets, there is just no way in hell that he would then be afraid of Jezebel's threats against him. If Jehovah was truly on his side, what the fuck could she possibly do to him? Makes no sense that he chickens out at this point and goes into hiding.  That's juss damm silly!

[SilentVoice]

Just now, Hierophant said:

 

You are reading into the texts. Your argument is based on your experience, biases (this does not mean anything negative, it is simply pitfalls in the human mind and we are all guilty of it), and cultural norms to interpret a situation that supposedly happened thousands of years ago. We do not know what kind of people they were or how they thought. Saying we don't know is acceptable. That is something I had to get used to after being a Christian, I got comfortable with saying I don't know when I did not have enough information to form an opinion.

How else are you supposed to understand anything if you don't read in to it to examine it? The words are right there for you to see.

 

"We don't know what kind of people they were or how they thought"

This is absurd and frankly dishonest. Aren't you able to understand the context of Exodus? A patient God leads a rebellious people out of Egypt in a journey that should have taken a couple of weeks but lasted 40 years. How co-operative or understanding do you think they could have been for it to have taken so long? Even atheist children could objectively admit that they were a "stiffnecked" people.

[Steviejay]

10 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

36 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

There's your problem. In your own words. Try using the actual words to establish the truth and context. There's that word again. Truth.

 

^{1 ...} the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.

²¹ And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them?

²² And Aaron said, Let not the anger of my lord wax hot: thou knowest the people, that they are set on mischief.

 

So the scene; tens of thousands of people crowding round a priest, talking down at him, telling him to make some idols to worship. Though he could have probably tried to rebuke them, these were violent, mischievous and spiritually blind people and they probably would have killed him.

 

I've read some books that have the same evidence as the EXODUS story. I can get them for you if you want and you can claim that they are "truth" too if you want. you can then accuse me of being angry when I disagree as if it's all my fault!!!!

 

Jack and the Bean stalk........ ( Can we prove his name was really Jack)

The 3 Little Pigs........... (and can we be certain that there were only 3 pigs, and were they actually little)

 

We may aswell discuss these books too because they also come from never never land the same as the characters of Moses and Aaron. You can argue the toss about the EXODUS all you want and go around claiming truth, but you forget one thing....I don't give a shit because the evidence says IT NEVER TOOK PLACE, therefore it is completely irrelevant

 

They're a bit more of an easy read and that's brilliant for saying that these books weren't written or inspired by the BEST author in the universe, Yahweh and his side kick

 

Still they're not as nasty

Also please study why such a huge number of people wandering the desert for a promised land, in the old testament, is a "PROBABLY" a fake story.

Around 3-5million people left not one shred of evidence, not one bone, jug, cup, table.

Let's Assume for arguments sake on the lower figure of 3million people (men). 3 million people (just men) with 10 in a family (plus wives and kids) and with their cattle. Therefore a family group of 10 people in it with cattle would occupy a circle of around 55feet in diameter.

Therefore the amount of assumed family groups is 3million divided by 10 = 300,000

The Length of line walking around the desert = 300,000 family and cattle group x 55feet in diametre = 3125 miles.

IN SUMMARY - A column of Israelite families and their cattle would be stretching across the desert in a line 3125 miles long and that's only based on 3million and not 5million. 5 million works out to be a line of Jewish families and cattle 5,208 miles long and there is NO EVIDENCE OF A MASS EXODUS ANYWHERE in archaeology and there would be absolutely tons and tons of evidence like there is with other civilizations of that era . Total made up story and you still teach this rubbish to the vulnerable, needy and the unsuspecting of our society when these people need real help, not fairy stories!!!

Teach it when you come back with the evidence and not before!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SilentVoice]

6 minutes ago, Tsathoggua9 said:

 

Excellent point! I always thought the same thing with Elijah. After getting help from God in outdoing (and then killing) Baal's prophets, there is just no way in hell that he would then be afraid of Jezebel's threats against him. If Jehovah was truly on his side, what the fuck could she possibly do to him? Makes no sense that he chickens out at this point and goes into hiding.  That's juss damm silly!

 

1 Kings 19:4 But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a juniper tree: and he requested for himself that he might die; and said, It is enough; now, O Lord, take away my life; for I am not better than my fathers.

 

Sounds stressed and grieved having to suffer for the cause of righteousness. He went through hardship and wanted to give up. Isn't that what people here went through? By criticizing him aren't you criticizing yourself for being unable to bear suffering for the Lord? You say it's silly that he was afraid (the bible did not use the words fear or afraid) to escape for his life, how much more is it silly for being afraid as a Christian? The countless times that God promises not to abandon or forget us, and yet He gets accused of those same things.

[Hierophant]

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Snip.

Sinai is in Arabia. The government has restricted access to Mount Sinai. The evidence is hidden. Why?

 

No idea, ask them. And I am not talking about one single mountain, I am talking about the whole desert. Everywhere they were supposed to be walking, traveling, camping, hunting, eating, and so on and so forth.

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 

I'm not here to win the day, just give you truth. I do know the truth. You did too but you've been taken captive. You were probably very important to God, warranting a big enough attack on you to steal you away. I didn't stretch the text, I summed up the scene. Ungodly people surrounding an anointed priest to demand (rudely, presumptuously) to make them idols. Let's further expand on the scene. They are literally camped next to a mountain that is on fire and surrounded by smoke and lightning. But they want to worship a golden animal. Their clothes didn't need replacing or repairing. They didn't need to hunt for food. Their feet didn't ache. They were following a giant pillar of fire guiding them to a promised land. They'd watched hundreds of chariots be drowned in the sea to protect them.

I find the idea of Satan absolutely absurd in light of an all-knowing and all-powerful God. If God is all-powerful, then really Satan is just a ridiculous character in a play. But we are getting off topic and that is a whole other argument we can start somewhere else.

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 

WHAT ON EARTH WAS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

 

[Isn't God supposed to be fair and just? If that is the case, then everyone should receive the exact amount of revelation as everyone else, past, present, and future.]

Well I believe in predestination and scripture.

 

I don't believe in scripture. I do not find it authoritative and scholars have demonstrated that the canon we have now does not meet the evangelical model of inerrant, infallible, and free of contradictions. I will not grant the authority of scripture, or assume it is true, unless I feel like being generous and granting that for the sake of discussing the text in a vacuum.

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 

1 Corinthians 3

²⁰ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

²¹ If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

Doesn't God give wisdom to people that ask? Or help them that call on Him? Your answer is no, but the truth is yes.

 

I think I demonstrated the answer was no. I even told God if he did not feel like coming down himself, send me a talking deer or something. Humans muddy things up to much and cannot be trusted. Really it came down to if God had a message, I am eager to hear it, I just do not want to hear it from another human. There is no way to know whether or not I am getting the real scoop.

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 

Seems like people are appointed different levels of understanding and glory like you might put a sports car next to a broken down tractor. It makes it look better.  Not everyone asks, or loves God. I'd like there to be equal reward in heaven but I don't think it's biblical at all.

 

A final note that you may find interesting. Out of all my interactions here, none has triggered you as much as the word truth.

Because I have heard it so many times over the years from Christians from various denominations who all say every other church is going to hell because they do not adhere to the teachings of church x. And it is annoying to say you know the truth when you cannot demonstrate that truth to anyone else. Just like that flat earth comment you made. I hope you were joking, but I am starting to wonder. Let's say someone in modern times held to the belief the earth was flat and there was a giant ocean above it. It is demonstrably false! We know there is no ocean up there because spacecraft would have gone right through it. It is an absurd claim. Saying the earth is flat is an absurd claim. Noah's flood is an absurd claim. Denying evolution is an absurd claim. The evidence is overwhelming and to deny that because "The Bible Told Me So" does nothing to demonstrate the veracity of your belief.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

45 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

Sorry mate

A smaller font might make it look less like you were yelling, and more like you were conversating.  

[TheRedneckProfessor]

@SilentVoice Welcome to The Lion's Den.  Enjoy your stay.

[Hierophant]

17 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

How else are you supposed to understand anything if you don't read in to it to examine it? The words are right there for you to see.

 

"We don't know what kind of people they were or how they thought"

This is absurd and frankly dishonest. Aren't you able to understand the context of Exodus? A patient God leads a rebellious people out of Egypt in a journey that should have taken a couple of weeks but lasted 40 years. How co-operative or understanding do you think they could have been for it to have taken so long? Even atheist children could objectively admit that they were a "stiffnecked" people.

 

I am speaking directly to the claim that you said they would have killed Aaron if he did not make the calf. I am telling you, you do not know, and neither do I. When I make a comment about how they thought, I am talking in the context of they did not think like 21st century westerners. I am not saying they are not human nor would they do something so bizarre, it defies some understanding. I am saying that they thought about the world differently, they thought about their emotions differently, they understood things differently, etc.

[SilentVoice]

Quote

I even told God if he did not feel like coming down himself, send me a talking deer or something. Humans muddy things up to much and cannot be trusted. Really it came down to if God had a message, I am eager to hear it, I just do not want to hear it from another human. There is no way to know whether or not I am getting the real scoop.

I was so desperate for God to answer me that I asked for the lowest angel to spare 2 seconds to come and give me a "yes or no" answer that I felt heartbroken when it didn't happen.

 

Faith is pleasing to God. You can't really have faith if you're constantly being reaffirmed in the way that you want, can you? No matter how much the world changes, no matter how many NASA pictures I get shown of 'distant galaxies', or photoshopped pictures of planets, or atheist theories of evolution I have to see, I know that God is with us and there is a very good reason to suffer these things. Every last thing that God said would happen in Revelation is true. I might not understand it, see it or sense it, but so what.

 

Sounds like you still yearn for God even though your faith is attacked. Fortunately Jesus is God, and not a mere human. You can always ask Him.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Fortunately Jesus is God, and not a mere human. You can always ask Him.

Dear jesus, please show yourself to us, on this forum, in this thread, in your own words, so that we might believe and be slaved.

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Dear jesus, please show yourself to us, on this forum, in this thread, in your own words, so that we might believe and be slaved.

Here I am

[Steviejay]

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

I was so desperate for God to answer me that I asked for the lowest angel to spare 2 seconds to come and give me a "yes or no" answer that I felt heartbroken when it didn't happen.

 

Faith is pleasing to God. You can't really have faith if you're constantly being reaffirmed in the way that you want, can you? No matter how much the world changes, no matter how many NASA pictures I get shown of 'distant galaxies', or photoshopped pictures of planets, or atheist theories of evolution I have to see, I know that God is with us and there is a very good reason to suffer these things. Every last thing that God said would happen in Revelation is true. I might not understand it, see it or sense it, but so what.

 

Sounds like you still yearn for God even though your faith is attacked. Fortunately Jesus is God, and not a mere human. You can always ask Him.

 

Typical arrogant Christian... My way or you're going to the highway (to Hell)

 

No proof, No evidence, from a senseless book but he still claims we are decieved and he has the monopoly on truth

 

I'm glad I'm not one of them anymore. i'm ashamed that I believed it once (but only for 2 whole weeks until i saw the light)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Here I am

You believe yourself to be the messiah?

[Steviejay]

4 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

8 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Fortunately Jesus is God, and not a mere human. You can always ask Him.

Dear jesus, please show yourself to us, on this forum, in this thread, in your own words, so that we might believe and be slaved.

 

Let's go one step further to show that we are not even thinking of ourselves but of others, this is then a completely unselfish prayer and as Jesus says in the Bible "Ask for anything and it will be yours"

 

Dear Jesus, please show yourself to us, on this forum, in this thread, in your own words, so that OTHERS might believe and be slaved.

 

In Jesus's name

 

Amen

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, Steviejay said:

 

Typical arrogant Christian... My way or you're going to the highway (to Hell)

 

No proof, No evidence, from a senseless book but he still claims we are decieved and he has the monopoly on truth

 

I'm glad I'm not one of them anymore. i'm ashamed that I believed it once (but only for 2 whole weeks until i saw the light)

Excuse me but I haven't threatened anyone with hell and I don't recall using that word until just now. And it's a little ironic that someone who has gone his own way is accusing me of telling people that things have to be my way or the highway. Honestly all I did was sympathize with you and tell you that faith is pleasing to God.

 

There is a voice inside you telling you not to call out to Jesus, pulling at you. That voice isn't your own.

 

May God help you all.