Example: Human behaviour from today and in the OT proves bible god is not real

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

You believe yourself to be the messiah?

No, He came and stood by me when I read your post and I just typed it. He was with me for a few moments until I stopped crying and started replying to the other guy.

[SilentVoice]

18 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

I am telling you, you do not know, and neither do I.

Yes it's true. But those people were mischievous and all through the O.T. they killed prophets. Israelites were constantly rebuked for wicked behaviour. We can only speculate on what would have happened. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to see them hurting him.

[Steviejay]

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Excuse me but I haven't threatened anyone with hell and I don't recall using that word until just now. And it's a little ironic that someone who has gone his own way is accusing me of telling people that things have to be my way or the highway. Honestly all I did was sympathize with you and tell you that faith is pleasing to God.

 

There is a voice inside you telling you not to call out to Jesus, pulling at you. That voice isn't your own.

 

May God help you all.

 

Yes and there's a voice inside you too telling you a load of bullshit...and guess what...it's your OWN voice, not god's....mirror, mirror on the wall, is that my reflection that is speaking to us all

 

And as for the Highway...where else are us non believers going, if it's not Hell, or are you being too polite to say

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

No, He came and stood by me when I read your post and I just typed it. He was with me for a few moments until I stopped crying and started replying to the other guy.

In that case, respectfully, I wasn't talking to you.  I specifically asked for jesus to show himself here using his own voice.  I did not ask him to come to you so that you could tell us what he said.  

[Hierophant]

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

Yes it's true. But those people were mischievous and all through the O.T. they killed prophets. Israelites were constantly rebuked for wicked behaviour. We can only speculate on what would have happened. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to see them hurting him.

 

Did not say it was, definitely possible. I was merely trying to reel in the assumptions. I don't want to say what would have happened one way or the other merely to win a theological point. Going back to the original claim, you stated they would have killed him if he did not make the idol. I was not comfortable with that conclusion because ultimately we do not know. Not saying it was off the table, just saying we do not know and I would prefer if you stayed away from using that as a premise in any conclusion you want to get to.

[Steviejay]

7 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

No, He came and stood by me when I read your post and I just typed it. He was with me for a few moments until I stopped crying and started replying to the other guy.

 

..........and now i know you're full of S****

unless your name is jesus and you are the Christ

[Geezer]

31 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Snip.

Sinai is in Arabia. The government has restricted access to Mount Sinai. The evidence is hidden. Why?

 

I'm not here to win the day, just give you truth. I do know the truth. You did too but you've been taken captive. You were probably very important to God, warranting a big enough attack on you to steal you away. I didn't stretch the text, I summed up the scene. Ungodly people surrounding an anointed priest to demand (rudely, presumptuously) to make them idols. Let's further expand on the scene. They are literally camped next to a mountain that is on fire and surrounded by smoke and lightning. But they want to worship a golden animal. Their clothes didn't need replacing or repairing. They didn't need to hunt for food. Their feet didn't ache. They were following a giant pillar of fire guiding them to a promised land. They'd watched hundreds of chariots be drowned in the sea to protect them.

 

WHAT ON EARTH WAS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

 

[Isn't God supposed to be fair and just? If that is the case, then everyone should receive the exact amount of revelation as everyone else, past, present, and future.]

Well I believe in predestination and scripture.

 

1 Corinthians 3

²⁰ But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

²¹ If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

 

Doesn't God give wisdom to people that ask? Or help them that call on Him? Your answer is no, but the truth is yes.

 

Seems like people are appointed different levels of understanding and glory like you might put a sports car next to a broken down tractor. It makes it look better.  Not everyone asks, or loves God. I'd like there to be equal reward in heaven but I don't think it's biblical at all.

 

A final note that you may find interesting. Out of all my interactions here, none has triggered you as much as the word truth.

TRUTH

 

 

Truth is based on  verifiable evidence, facts, historical evidence, and science. Truth is not based on personal unsubstantiated beliefs, myths, folklore, fiction, and fairytales. If you possess some actual verifiable, scholarly peer reviewed documentation, validated evidence authenticated by historical accredited scholars (apologist are not historical scholars) then please present that.

 

If you cannot do that then I must assume you have no actual verifiable evidence, and thus you are simply expressing your personal religious beliefs based on years of religious indoctrination. 

[SilentVoice]

Just now, Steviejay said:

 

Yes and there's a voice inside you too telling you a load of bullshit...and guess what...it's your OWN voice, not god's....mirror, mirror on the wall, is that my reflection that is speaking to us all

 

And as for the Highway...where else are us non believers going, if it's not Hell, or are you being too polite to say

I don't know where you're going. No miracle is too big for God. Literally you could be insulting me today and in 6 months standing on stage in front of 10 million TV viewers preaching about God's grace. There's no profit in judging you because I don't even know you and I'm not supposed to. I just know that you're angry and need God.

 

2 Timothy 2:

²⁴ And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

²⁵ In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

[Geezer]

Obi Wan the Force is strong with this one. It’s unfortunate he’s gone over to the dark side. 

[Steviejay]

4 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

I don't know where you're going. No miracle is too big for God. Literally you could be insulting me today and in 6 months standing on stage in front of 10 million TV viewers preaching about God's grace. There's no profit in judging you because I don't even know you and I'm not supposed to. I just know that you're angry and need God.

 

2 Timothy 2:

²⁴ And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

²⁵ In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

Ahhhh!,  that story book bible again..... you're god wouldn't exist without that book, would he

 

Try this one

Three Little Pigs chapter 2 verses 9 -11

• Wolf: I'm the poor brushman. I'm working my way through college.
• Practical Pig: You can play and laugh and fiddle / Don't think you can make me sore / I'll be safe and you'll be sorry / When the Wolf comes to your door.
• Wolf: By the hair on your chinny-chin-chin, I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house in!

I'm not angry, I'm sad, I'm amazed. i'm actually amused at how blind, indoctrinated and brainwashed you seem to of become. you quote, quote ,quote from the Bible,....Why not the Quran surely their evidence is the same as yours. Or is the the religion that you were brought up in and you just so happened to live in a "christian" society so you fell nicely into christianity.....is that not the TRUTH with many believers

[Hierophant]

21 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

I was so desperate for God to answer me that I asked for the lowest angel to spare 2 seconds to come and give me a "yes or no" answer that I felt heartbroken when it didn't happen.

 

Faith is pleasing to God. You can't really have faith if you're constantly being reaffirmed in the way that you want, can you? No matter how much the world changes, no matter how many NASA pictures I get shown of 'distant galaxies', or photoshopped pictures of planets, or atheist theories of evolution I have to see, I know that God is with us and there is a very good reason to suffer these things. Every last thing that God said would happen in Revelation is true. I might not understand it, see it or sense it, but so what.

 

Sounds like you still yearn for God even though your faith is attacked. Fortunately Jesus is God, and not a mere human. You can always ask Him.

 

There is a lot to unpack here. One, we have to agree on what the definition of faith is. I have spoken to a lot of Christians who want to define that word to make it out to trust or confidence. Which is fine, I think faith is used in that context within the NT. Matter of fact, the verse you reference where it states faith is pleasing to God, I actually think the idea of trust and confidence is a better fit in that context instead of blind belief. If you are saying God just wants us to believe without evidence, I would find that strange, because surely he knows that is going to lead to a host of problems. I say that because I could end up believing in anything. I could just at easily believe in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Dionysus, Attis, Baal, animism, wicca, or a host of who knows what.  I don't have faith in faith. It is too easy to get thrown off track.

 

When you say I still yearn for God, I want to rephrase that and say that I want to know what the truth is; meaning, I want to know what is objectively real. If that happens to be the Christian God, great. But I would need a solid method that could tell me how to figure out that was true in general, and then what is specifically true. Early Christians believed different things than modern day Christians (recommended reading, Lost Christianities by Bart Ehrman).

 

In order to tease out what is real, what is objectively real, I have to use inductive methods of investigation. Starting at an assumed conclusion and then trying to buttress that belief with evidence is not a good way for determining what is real. Have you ever considered your method for figuring out the world around you? What method do you employ to determine what is real or what is false? I ask because you came to the conclusion that God is real, the Bible is real, the earth is flat, etc., but how did you do that. How did you investigate to come to those conclusions? Who told you any of those things were real? I really want to know in light of your "so what" comment. The way you explained your method of discovery is exactly the same method being used by every other person who believes in their religion. Same method, just happened to be born in a different location or found something appealing about it. I don't trust that method. The results are never consistent.

 

 

[SilentVoice]

8 minutes ago, Geezer said:

Truth is based on  verifiable evidence, facts, historical evidence, and science. Truth is not based on personal unsubstantiated beliefs, myths, folklore, fiction, and fairytales. If you possess some actual verifiable, scholarly peer reviewed documentation, validated evidence authenticated by historical accredited scholars (apologist are not historical scholars) then please present that.

 

If you cannot do that then I must assume you have no actual verifiable evidence, and thus you are simply expressing your personal religious beliefs based on years of religious indoctrination. 

Can we agree that there is objective truth and subjective truth?

 

For example, you haven't seen the damage done to Sodom, so it isn't real to you. You can call that subjective truth, I guess. Where as objective truth would be that God destroyed Sodom by raining down golf ball-sized chunks of pure sulphur down on the whole city, heating the rocks to several thousand degrees to cause them to flake and the site is preserved even to this day and you can go there and pick up those chunks of sulphur for yourself, even though you might not believe me or even have a look on Youtube for people actually doing that.

 

You guys like to ask for physical 'real' proof but it's kind of fruitless when you keep moving goal posts and won't acknowledge what is in front of you.

[Steviejay]

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

Can we agree that there is objective truth and subjective truth?

 

For example, you haven't seen the damage done to Sodom, so it isn't real to you. You can call that subjective truth, I guess. Where as objective truth would be that God destroyed Sodom by raining down golf ball-sized chunks of pure sulphur down on the whole city, heating the rocks to several thousand degrees to cause them to flake and the site is preserved even to this day and you can go there and pick up those chunks of sulphur for yourself, even though you might not believe me or even have a look on Youtube for people actually doing that.

 

You guys like to ask for physical 'real' proof but it's kind of fruitless when you keep moving goal posts and won't acknowledge what is in front of you.

 

This from the guy that just stated that jesus was next to him while he was typing a reply when TheRedneckProfessor asked for Jesus to show himself to us and not YOU

[Hierophant]

5 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Can we agree that there is objective truth and subjective truth?

 

For example, you haven't seen the damage done to Sodom, so it isn't real to you. You can call that subjective truth, I guess. Where as objective truth would be that God destroyed Sodom by raining down golf ball-sized chunks of pure sulphur down on the whole city, heating the rocks to several thousand degrees to cause them to flake and the site is preserved even to this day and you can go there and pick up those chunks of sulphur for yourself, even though you might not believe me or even have a look on Youtube for people actually doing that.

 

You guys like to ask for physical 'real' proof but it's kind of fruitless when you keep moving goal posts and won't acknowledge what is in front of you.

 

Subjective truth would be personal opinions, taste, preferences, etc. Objective truth is something we are able to apply a systematic and rigorous method to and come to the conclusion that it comports with reality. Take gravity. We know it is real, everyone can experience it, and it can be tested. We would then all agree the theory of gravity is the best explanation for why things fall to the ground.

 

You are correct, I have seen that area. It is desolate, but that does not mean it became that way because YHWH smoked it. I want to shift your thinking, is it not possible that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible is a folktale made up to explain why that area looks the way it does?

[SilentVoice]

3 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

Why not the Quran surely their evidence is the same as yours. Or is the the religion that you were brought up in and you just so happened to live in a "christian" society so you fell nicely into christianity.....is that not the TRUTH with many believers

I tried reading the Koran to disprove it but as I turned the first page I was attacked by a demon. I've been attacked quite a few times by them actually. One time was very scary, it literally forced my voice out of me, it tried to get me to say "there is no god but *llah". Fortunately I was able to rebuke them in Jesus' name. As soon as you use the name of Jesus, they panic. They do everything in their power to close your mouth to stop you from sending them to hell. A good analogy would be the scene in the Matrix when Neo had his mouth closed.

[SilentVoice]

3 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

 

This from the guy that just stated that jesus was next to him while he was typing a reply when TheRedneckProfessor asked for Jesus to show himself to us and not YOU

The Holy Spirit is Jesus' spirit. He is with us. RedneckProfessor's heart has been hardened.

[Hierophant]

22 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

2 Timothy 2:

²⁴ And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

²⁵ In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

²⁶ And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

2 Timothy is a known forgery. All the pastoral epistles are.

[SilentVoice]

3 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

You are correct, I have seen that area. It is desolate, but that does not mean it became that way because YHWH smoked it. I want to shift your thinking, is it not possible that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible is a folktale made up to explain why that area looks the way it does?

Do you know any possible situation, with all known geological phenomena where it's possible for rocks to be brittle as to fall apart when touched, without being supernaturally heated, while simultaneously being embedded with perfectly smooth spherical chunks of pure brimstone?

 

Or would you care to speculate how a bunch of 'primitive' people could have dreamed up a story about a mythical city being burned up on a site that coincidentally had such brimstone chunks.

If you notice in that documentary, it states that such sulphur isn't found in nature.

[Steviejay]

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

The Holy Spirit is Jesus' spirit. He is with us. RedneckProfessor's heart has been hardened.

 

What like yahweh did by hardening Pharoah's heart, on purpose, so he could murder 70,000 innocent first born  (innocent) children and FIRST BORN (INNOCENT) CATTLE

 

and THEN he killed Pharoah for having a hardened heart

 

 

WAKE up man. It's time to put the dangerous book down

[SilentVoice]

1 minute ago, Steviejay said:

 

What like yahweh did by hardening Pharoah's heart, on purpose, so he could murder 70,000 innocent first born  (innocent) children and FIRST BORN (INNOCENT) CATTLE

 

and THEN he killed Pharoah for having a hardened heart

 

WAKE up man. It's time to put the dangerous book down

God doesn't murder. You'd have to do a bible study to understand why God would do that. I can only speculate about the king of Egypt being wicked, so he was treated harshly. He was a guy using God's people as slave labour, remember. Imagine how vain you would be as a ruler of Egypt, such grand architecture and claiming to be the lineage of gods, etc.

[Hierophant]

7 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Do you know any possible situation, with all known geological phenomena where it's possible for rocks to be brittle as to fall apart when touched, without being supernaturally heated, while simultaneously being embedded with perfectly smooth spherical chunks of pure brimstone?

 

Or would you care to speculate how a bunch of 'primitive' people could have dreamed up a story about a mythical city being burned up on a site that coincidentally had such brimstone chunks.

If you notice in that documentary, it states that such sulphur isn't found in nature.

 

I cannot remember if I watched that documentary when I was a believer or after, I think it was during. Not to be a turd about it, but anything made by Christians has one goal in mind, defending the faith. So I have to take anything they say with a large grain of salt because I know they are ultimately trying to shoehorn the evidence into an assumed conclusion.

 

Here is an article I found on the area:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/12/04/new-science-suggests-biblical-city-of-sodom-was-smote-by-an-exploding-meteor/#5ac596ef5c67

 

I am definitely not an authority in this area nor am I going to act like it. I would have to spend a lot of time looking at the science and evidence to give you a really solid answer. This is one of those "I do not know" categories. I know the Bible story, and I have seen a few videos on it in the past, but I would really have to dig to give you anything of substance.

[Geezer]

8 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Can we agree that there is objective truth and subjective truth?

 

For example, you haven't seen the damage done to Sodom, so it isn't real to you. You can call that subjective truth, I guess. Where as objective truth would be that God destroyed Sodom by raining down golf ball-sized chunks of pure sulphur down on the whole city, heating the rocks to several thousand degrees to cause them to flake and the site is preserved even to this day and you can go there and pick up those chunks of sulphur for yourself, even though you might not believe me or even have a look on Youtube for people actually doing that.

 

You guys like to ask for physical 'real' proof but it's kind of fruitless when you keep moving goal posts and won't acknowledge what is in front of you.

Your “truth” is based on intense religious indoctrination. Apologetics is not a accredited historical scholarship. The Bible is NOT a history book. Truly informed Christians recognize the Bible is a collection of theological myths. These Christians are commonly identified as “liberal”  Christians. They do not interpret the Bible literally because they know it is neither literally or historically true. 
 

They find truth in myth, metaphor, and symbolism. They don’t interpret heaven or hell as being literal places. They are symbols of good and evil. Sin and the fear of Devine punishment doesn’t control their lives. They can accept that Jesus was either a mythical figure or just a man whose life has been exaggerated and mythologized. I don’t have any real issues with liberal Christians, it’s the Bible literalists that are troubling and give Christianity a bad name.

[Steviejay]

1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

God doesn't murder. You'd have to do a bible study to understand why God would do that. I can only speculate about the king of Egypt being wicked, so he was treated harshly. He was a guy using God's people as slave labour, remember. Imagine how vain you would be as a ruler of Egypt, such grand architecture and claiming to be the lineage of gods, etc.

 

Excuse after excuse after excuse

It was murder pure and simple of 70,000 first born kids and first born cattle (what the F**** had the sheep, pigs and cows done wrong)

 

and if Yahweh hadn't hardened Pharoah's heart, who's to say that he wouldn't of submitted to yahweh saving all those lives

 

Good job the book is fiction...trouble is millions have been killed because of this dangerous book and to be honest you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to defend it just so YOU can be SAVED

[Hierophant]

4 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

God doesn't murder. You'd have to do a bible study to understand why God would do that. I can only speculate about the king of Egypt being wicked, so he was treated harshly. He was a guy using God's people as slave labour, remember. Imagine how vain you would be as a ruler of Egypt, such grand architecture and claiming to be the lineage of gods, etc.

 

How are we defining murder? Would you like to define it is only unjustified killing? If so, then you are going to have to say that God kills as he pleases and it is always justified because God said so. Really, that mentality whittles down to "might make right." It is right when God does it because everyone is powerless to tell him otherwise.

 

Also, we established there was no evidence of Hebrews living in Egypt as slaves. I am not saying that it is 100% impossible, I am saying we do not have evidence for it, and I am not going to accept it because "The Bible Tells Me So." You will find that everyone here is evidence driven. If you can demonstrate your claims, it will be accepted!!!!!!!!!

[SilentVoice]

3 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

I cannot remember if I watched that documentary when I was a believer or after, I think it was during. Not to be a turd about it, but anything made by Christians has one goal in mind, defending the faith. So I have to take anything they say with a large grain of salt because I know they are ultimately trying to shoehorn the evidence into an assumed conclusion.

 

Here is an article I found on the area:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmack/2018/12/04/new-science-suggests-biblical-city-of-sodom-was-smote-by-an-exploding-meteor/#5ac596ef5c67

 

I am definitely not an authority in this area nor am I going to act like it. I would have to spend a lot of time looking at the science and evidence to give you a really solid answer. This is one of those "I do not know" categories. I know the Bible story, and I have seen a few videos on it in the past, but I would really have to dig to give you anything of substance.

Last post for today...

 

You claim that Christians try to defend the faith but you're offering up absurd alternatives. An exploding asteroid containing pure elements that happens to explode over a particular city and has fragments hot enough to melt the rocks. Yeah OK. It would be great if we had geologists in here to share their professional opinions and tell us about any other site hit by meteorites or asteroids that melted rock. Or mathematicians to tell us the odds of an asteroid breaking up (in atmospheric entry?) and raining down a frenzy of a pure element on a single city and avoiding the rest of the middle East.

 

Neither of us were born yesterday.