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Example: Human behaviour from today and in the OT proves bible god is not real


Steviejay
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11 hours ago, SilentVoice said:

Denigrate; to criticize unfairly

So you admit that you don't have anything factual against God, you're just a wicked slanderer. Yet you worship a 4 legged beast that He made. ūü§≠

 

No, it's not just to criticize unfairly:

 

denigratein American English

(ňąden…™ňĆ…°reit)
TRANSITIVE VERBWord forms: -grated, -grating
1. 
to speak damagingly of; criticize in a derogatory manner; sully; defame
to denigrate someone's character
2. 
to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance; belittle; disparage
to denigrate someone's contributions to a project
 
And I'm not entirely sure whether this applies to fictional characters. If I say Emperor Palatine was a psychotic bloodthirsty madman invented by stone age peasants, the only thing I've really denigrated is the said stone age peasants, and I think the slander used against them in that case is unfair.
 
(This is why I'm a bit iffy about using the phrase "Bronze age illiterates wrote the bible" as an attack against the bible.) 
 
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2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Looking at your pictures I thought they were stupid.

 

1) If God isn't real, how could leprosy be treated by <whatever those birds and bowl mean because I can't read the small text>? If you're suggesting that backward religious ceremonies have no power to heal anyone then why were people healed in the bible? Surely the bible would be full of people whining about not being healed but still being told to have faith. It is written with people being healed and thanking God for it or lamenting their sins. Also if God wanted to kill someone with leprosy He wouldn't allow medication to work. God is very clear when He punishes someone. My favourite example of how He punishes wicked people is by giving blasphemers throat cancer.

 

2) The church doesn't say the Earth is flat. The Catholic church embraced the big bang theory.

 

3) A cartoon picture which doesn't mean anything. I could just as easily edit the picture to show a bunch of atheists floating in the water being eaten by sharks, and the person who knew how to pray just standing on water watching it happen.

 

NO NO NO.... look up the leprosy bible cure....no one has been cured this way otherwise Medics would be using it today!!!!!

 

Now jump in the ocean 50 miles of land, no where near a boat of plane over head and then pray your little save me prayer

 

you see reality and logic beat your arguments. The reality of this world shows that you and everyone else would DROWN as no god would answer you prayer. Next time you get a fatal illness like cancer.....no going to any hospitals....get yourself down to your church, pray and anoint yourself with oil and then claim the miracles that you so easily claim on here IF your god bothers to heal you from terminal cancer.... Your faith is weak really...any normal human being can predict what you're really going to do

 

UTTER BULLSHIT

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3 hours ago, WalterP said:

SilentVoice,

 

When scientists investigate the sulphur deposits you've been talking about, what is the only practical methodology that they can all agree upon?

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

Interesting question. I suppose they could agree on the chemical properties of elements and their compounds in the periodic table. Also they could agree on a step-by-step guide of how to test the samples fairly without tampering or possibility of being tainted, i.e. how to transport them, seal them in containers, analyze them, report their findings in a specific template.

 

I don't think they can agree on the purpose of science. The scientists in the cited published paper set out to disprove supernatural occurrence. That is not a method of observation and testing, it is a personal thing to them. They didn't call their article 'testing if the sulphur is supernatural or natural in origin'.

 

So how can scientists agree? Well they should collect data from around the world, collecting samples of all naturally occurring sulphur and organize them in to groups according to what geological processes made them. They could run every single analytical test they could think of against each sample and compare them side by side. They could then see that the yellowish substances created in nature in volcanoes, geothermal vents or by bacteria were completely different than the samples found. Their conclusion should be 'a mystery to think about' and not 'it was still bacteria, even though it couldn't have been bacteria'.

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6 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

 

NO NO NO.... look up the leprosy bible cure....no one has been cured this way otherwise Medics would be using it today!!!!!

 

Now jump in the ocean 50 miles of land, no where near a boat of plane over head and then pray your little save me prayer

 

you see reality and logic beat your arguments. The reality of this world shows that you and everyone else would DROWN as no god would answer you prayer. Next time you get a fatal illness like cancer.....no going to any hospitals....get yourself down to your church, pray and anoint yourself with oil and then claim the miracles that you so easily claim on here IF your god bothers to heal you from terminal cancer.... Your faith is weak really...any normal human being can predict what you're really going to do

 

UTTER BULLSHIT

How about you post the KJV scripture regarding the 'cure' for leprosy. If I'm not mistaken it involved sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood, which don't exist any more. We have God's grace through Jesus Christ.

 

Even if I cured myself of cancer, no one here would believe it. How am I supposed to prove it? Without going to a doctor? "Show the scans your doctor took" "Oh you didn't go to the doctor? How convenient". You move the goal posts, you poor people.

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11 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No, it's not just to criticize unfairly:

 

denigratein American English

(ňąden…™ňĆ…°reit)
TRANSITIVE VERBWord forms: -grated, -grating
1. 
to speak damagingly of; criticize in a derogatory manner; sully; defame
to denigrate someone's character
2. 
to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance; belittle; disparage
to denigrate someone's contributions to a project
 
And I'm not entirely sure whether this applies to fictional characters. If I say Emperor Palatine was a psychotic bloodthirsty madman invented by stone age peasants, the only thing I've really denigrated is the said stone age peasants, and I think the slander used against them in that case is unfair.
 
(This is why I'm a bit iffy about using the phrase "Bronze age illiterates wrote the bible" as an attack against the bible.) 
 

"to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance" (even if they have value or imporance, i.e. unfairly)

"to speak damagingly of; criticize in a derogatory manner" (criticism done unfairly)

 

I'm confident that the initial definition was adequate. Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

How about you post the KJV scripture regarding the 'cure' for leprosy. If I'm not mistaken it involved sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood, which don't exist any more. We have God's grace through Jesus Christ.

 

Even if I cured myself of cancer, no one here would believe it. How am I supposed to prove it? Without going to a doctor? "Show the scans your doctor took" "Oh you didn't go to the doctor? How convenient". You move the goal posts, you poor people.

 

Excuses again

 

Your whole church, and many others would know that you've been cured.. are there no Doctors in your churches? they could arrange a scan to show the cancer.....then you go to church regulaly and pray and anoint.... then when healed the Church Doctors arranges anothe scan..... get the Media involved.... hey presto. you will always get some doubters but many will then change their views, especially if it happened on a regular basis

 

The reality is that if you drive past a church at midnight, they are empty and all the sick are being treated via science at the hospitals... Why? because nothing fails like prayer!!

 

People don't need to blind each other with scientific facts to try and prove a point..... if you look around the world it has ALL the hallmarks of a world that is not being run or in control of any god. Never pray for anything that is impossible. Why? because it will never happen and god doesn't answer those prayers, simply because he doesn't exist. Always pray for something that will probably happen anyway without prayer and then claim.... it's a miracle even if you've used things like hospitals and Doctors to achieve this miracle

 

Sulphur and technical talk has its place but it just clouds reality even more because it just focuses on the one point and trying to win the argument. Look a the big picture and you'll see all the crazy prayer promises jesus makes in the Bible fail and are just lies. Try them. Test the spirits.

 

People who need to see the truth need it keeping simple so it can be attributed to their everyday life. Prayer fails, the bible is full of contradictions, fake history etc etc

 

 

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1 minute ago, Steviejay said:

 

Excuses again

 

Your whole church, and many others would know that you've been cured.. are there no Doctors in your churches? they could arrange a scan to show the cancer.....then you go to church regulaly and pray and anoint.... then when healed the Church Doctors arranges anothe scan..... get the Media involved.... hey presto. you will always get some doubters but many will then change their views, especially if it happened on a regular basis

 

The reality is that if you drive past a church at midnight, they are empty and all the sick are being treated via science at the hospitals... Why? because nothing fails like prayer!!

 

People don't need to blind each other with scientific facts to try and prove a point..... if you look around the world it has ALL the hallmarks of a world that is not being run or in control of any god. Never pray for anything that is impossible. Why? because it will never happen and god doesn't answer those prayers, simply because he doesn't exist. Always pray for something that will probably happen anyway without prayer and then claim.... it's a miracle even if you've used things like hospitals and Doctors to achieve this miracle

 

Sulphur and technical talk has its place but it just clouds reality even more because it just focuses on the one point and trying to win the argument. Look a the big picture and you'll see all the crazy prayer promises jesus makes in the Bible fail and are just lies. Try them. Test the spirits.

 

People who need to see the truth need it keeping simple so it can be attributed to their everyday life. Prayer fails, the bible is full of contradictions, fake history etc etc

 

 

Wait, what? So I'm supposed to ask God to give me cancer, and then for me to have some doctors document it, and then be biblically healed and then submit the evidence on here?

 

Every post I've made you just dismiss and rant against God. Honestly I don't have much hope for you.

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35 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

Christianity is a mental illness....

 

No it's not. We have to stop using this line. It's a meme, and its wrong, and it makes us look as bad as a flat earther creationist who is ignorant of major fields of study.

 

Most of us here were once Christian, most of us I'd warrant didn't consider it to be a mental illness back then, nor do we today consider that we were mentally ill. If Christianity can be a mental illness, then so can science, and that's a path we don't want to go down. Now can Christians be mentally ill? Of course, so can anyone else. But religion itself is not a mental illness. 

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Hi all

 

Since this topic with our current interlocutor is going nowhere fast I present you with the opportunity for you to give your considered thoughts over here in this thread. (Flat earthers not allowed :P ) Your thoughts are most welcome

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

 If God isn't real, how could leprosy be treated by <whatever those birds and bowl mean because I can't read the small text>? If you're suggesting that backward religious ceremonies have no power to heal anyone then why were people healed in the bible? Surely the bible would be full of people whining about not being healed but still being told to have faith. It is written with people being healed and thanking God for it or lamenting their sins. Also if God wanted to kill someone with leprosy He wouldn't allow medication to work. God is very clear when He punishes someone. My favourite example of how He punishes wicked people is by giving blasphemers throat cancer.

 

I cannot concede to your points here. The way you are stringing these ideas together are a non-sequitur for me. Your entire thought process is underlined by the assumption the Bible is true. Why is that? How did you come to believe the Bible, in its entirety, was true? Just because the Bible states that some ancient religious practice worked, does not mean it did.

 

What if you met a Muslim and his evidence Islam is true is the Quran. In your discussion, he starts arguing that the Quran is his source of information and starts using internal evidence to validate its claims. I get the impression you would not agree to their premise, but that is the same tactic you are using.

 

On your point of punishing blasphemers with throat cancer...plenty of people get throat cancer, even believers. Someone having throat cancer does not mean God did it.

 

I think the problem here is that I am asking you to think about things in a way that is just not feasible for you. I am not saying you are dumb, but you are so committed to a certain worldview, no amount of contrary evidence is going to hold weight. And that is where my biggest disagreement with you is. I am not willing to assume anything and if the evidence favors an idea, I will embrace that idea.

 

There is a book called "When Prophecy Fails." It has nothing to do with Christianity, but is is a really good book that provides a whole story about how people, even really intelligent ones, are prone to believing things that are simply not true. Moreover, when presented with contrary evidence, especially evidence that may disprove their committed belief, they often double down on their beliefs because they feel as if they have too much invested. The embarrassment of being wrong or the feeling of wasting so much resources on an idea is worse than staying committed to the idea.

 

Do not take this as an insult, but you seem to be the conspiracy theory jackpot. You have sold yourself on the idea that everyone is evil, everyone is lying, everyone is trying to suppress some truth. I think you like massaging this feeling of self satisfaction that you figured out how things really are. You are special in that you have this secret knowledge and the masses are sheep and blind to reality. Think about how many impossible things have to happen for flat earth to be a reality. It is one impossible scenario after another, and every country is in on it! Every country that has a space mission is harboring the same secret, it is just impossible at so many levels. So I don't know why you would think that everyone knows better and just lies because it's fun to do. Believe me when I say this, most people are interested in knowing what is real, what is factual. If the earth was really flat, we would have known about it years ago and nobody would have kept it a secret. You give Satan too much credit. Your idea of Satan is more in line with Zoroastrianism in that you pump him up to this god-like creature.

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6 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Wait, what? So I'm supposed to ask God to give me cancer, and then for me to have some doctors document it, and then be biblically healed and then submit the evidence on here?

 

Every post I've made you just dismiss and rant against God. Honestly I don't have much hope for you.

 

I don't have any hope for you either. i don't think you'd see truth even if it bit you on the bum

 

But at least MY BELIEF donesn't condemn people to an unjust Hell for not accepting MY view point. I obviously will critisize but that's all. Christianity codemns people to a hell of eternal torment, a place that you have absolutely no evidence of (therefore you should be ashamed of yourselves)

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13 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Wait, what? So I'm supposed to ask God to give me cancer, and then for me to have some doctors document it, and then be biblically healed and then submit the evidence on here?

 

Um no, did he say that? No. What Stevie said was test people with cancer, like who already have it... like there are lots of Christians right now with cancer. No need for God to give you cancer, enough of the human race that is Christian has cancer. You can then run prayer tests, compare the results to a group of not Christians who are medically treated, and see if those treated only with prayers survive or die at a higher rate than those treated medically. That would truly test if God answered prayer. It would also be unethical because you can't withhold treatment from a person needing it... which kinda proves the point in itself.

 

If God heals and answers prayer, why do Christians suffer and die at the same rates as everybody else? Shouldn't there be some variation to show that at least some portion of Christians were being healed?

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6 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

Your entire thought process is underlined by the assumption the Bible is true. Why is that?

Sorry there's too many arguments on this website to address but this is a good observation. God has shown me that He is real and His words are true. That's why the premise of my arguments is the truth of the Word.

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5 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Sorry there's too many arguments on this website to address but this is a good observation. God has shown me that He is real and His words are true. That's why the premise of my arguments is the truth of the Word.

 

How did God show you he was real? And how did you know it was the God of Christianity?

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3 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Sorry there's too many arguments on this website to address but this is a good observation. God has shown me that He is real and His words are true. That's why the premise of my arguments is the truth of the Word.

 

How do you KNOW it was god. What about a DEMON pretending to be god especially as the name Jesus is only around 500 years old and this name Jesus is only used in english speaking countries!!!! In other words that's NOT the true messiahs name

 

See..... put the book down....it's f******* dangerous

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27 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

No it's not. We have to stop using this line. It's a meme, and its wrong, and it makes us look as bad as a flat earther creationist who is ignorant of major fields of study.

 

Most of us here were once Christian, most of us I'd warrant didn't consider it to be a mental illness back then, nor do we today consider that we were mentally ill. If Christianity can be a mental illness, then so can science, and that's a path we don't want to go down. Now can Christians be mentally ill? Of course, so can anyone else. But religion itself is not a mental illness. 

 

It is a mental illnes, even though i absolutely hate the thought... Christianity steals reality, it steals truth, it steals your mind, it indoctrinates through repetitionj, it brainwashes its victim, it make a person rude and judgemental, it make you feel superior to others, it makes you believe the unthinkable, it make you justify biblical injustices and murders, it's abusive love, it alienates, it judges, it critisizes, it condemns.... basically it's evil disguised as love and it steals a persons mind to believe in magic bullshit etc etc etc

 

Many are coming out but many have the woulds and scars for years and years afterwards

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7 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

 

It is a mental illnes, even though i absolutely hate the thought... Christianity steals reality, it steals truth, it steals your mind, it indoctrinates through repetitionj, it brainwashes its victim, it make a person rude and judgemental, it make you feel superior to others, it makes you believe the unthinkable, it make you justify biblical injustices and murders, it's abusive love, it alienates, it judges, it critisizes, it condemns.... basically it's evil disguised as love and it steals a persons mind to believe in magic bullshit etc etc etc

 

Many are coming out but many have the woulds and scars for years and years afterwards

 

None of that makes Christianity a mental illness. That's not what a mental illness is. I agree with all of your points above except the assertion that it's a mental illness. 

 

Can it lead to people having mental illness? Yes. But that's not the same as being a mental illness or declaring all Christian's are mentally ill. You are basically declaring that anyone with a religion is mentally I'll and if that's the case since they are in the majority then by that fact alone they'd be normal and we'd be the mentally ill ones. 

 

Please don't use this as an argument against christianity I beg you. It's a really really bad argument... like the level of bad that Christian's use when they say that I secretly believe in God. It's just... bad... very bad. Covefe.  

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3 minutes ago, Steviejay said:
36 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

No it's not. We have to stop using this line. It's a meme, and its wrong, and it makes us look as bad as a flat earther creationist who is ignorant of major fields of study.

 

Most of us here were once Christian, most of us I'd warrant didn't consider it to be a mental illness back then, nor do we today consider that we were mentally ill. If Christianity can be a mental illness, then so can science, and that's a path we don't want to go down. Now can Christians be mentally ill? Of course, so can anyone else. But religion itself is not a mental illness. 

 

It is a mental illnes, even though i absolutely hate the thought... Christianity steals reality, it steals truth, it steals your mind, it indoctrinates through repetitionj, it brainwashes its victim, it make a person rude and judgemental, it make you feel superior to others, it makes you believe the unthinkable, it make you justify biblical injustices and murders, it's abusive love, it alienates, it judges, it critisizes, it condemns.... basically it's evil disguised as love and it steals a persons mind to believe in magic bullshit etc etc etc

 

Many are coming out but many have the woulds and scars for years and years afterwards

 

And if you have deconverted then "praise the Lord for making you see the light....seek and ye will find"

ironically speaking....For many this is the only answered prayer they ever received because they managed to stop deluding themselves with the bullshit of "prayer works and miracles happen".....No they DON'T

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1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

None of that makes Christianity a mental illness. That's not what a mental illness is. I agree with all of your points above except the assertion that it's a mental illness. 

 

Can it lead to people having mental illness? Yes. But that's not the same as being a mental illness or declaring all Christian's are mentally I'll. You are basically declaring that anyone with a religion is mentally I'll and if that's the case since they are in the majority then by that fact alone they'd be normal and we'd be the mentally I'll ones. 

 

Please don't use this as an argument against christianity I beg you. It's a really really bad argument... like the level of bad that Christian's use when they say that I secretly believe in God. It's just... bad... very bad. Covefe.  

 

Ok. Seeing as you put it like that. Point taken. Maybe mental illness is too severe but it must have some kind of catagory i.e "brainwashed"

 

it does still steal most things from a certain side of our brain but the rest of our brain functions normally when at work, driving your car, shopping etc but then we get to believing in talking donkeys, snakes, and hell etc

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13 minutes ago, Hierophant said:

 

How did God show you he was real? And how did you know it was the God of Christianity?

I was seeking the truth about what was happening in the world and I was called to read the bible, pulled to it. I had trouble reading the O.T. and there were some things that I found upsetting, how some people were treated or suffered.

 

At the time I was also studying things like sacred geometry and learning from people who were liars. I was watching videos of one guy and it really bothered me that he'd contradict himself several times, especially about ancient history, aliens, enlightened masters, etc.

 

Then after a few weeks I read the gospel and I was crying all the way through the N.T. because I knew it was real and true. I can only attribute this to the supernatural and being called/chosen by God. Talking and discussing Christianity helped. Being met with questions that challenge my faith. Like one person claiming that the Mandela Effect had changed scripture because the verse that says "wolf will lie down the with lamb" used to be "lion will lie down with the lamb" and this really challenged me because it sounded true. I had to check scripture in several bibles to see if it had been changed in any. But I gave God the benefit of my doubts and chose to believe that nobody has power over the word of God, nobody can change Him or His will towards me, or the goodness of His promises. Turns out I was thinking about a picture I'd seen of a lion and lamb together representing God as protector of Israel. People have tried to undermine my faith after that too if I recall correctly (was a few years ago), using other scripture saying it had been changed but I knew it hadn't because I remembered it. They also like to push the idea of gnosticism and claim that I worship the demiurge and that the God of the O.T. was cruel where as the God of the N.T. was the highest God. It's not true.

 

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 16:28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
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10 minutes ago, Steviejay said:

 

Ok. Seeing as you put it like that. Point taken. Maybe mental illness is too severe but it must have some kind of catagory i.e "brainwashed"

 

it does still steal most things from a certain side of our brain but the rest of our brain functions normally when at work, driving your car, shopping etc but then we get to believing in talking donkeys, snakes, and hell etc


This is a good way to put it. ¬†I was a Christian for 20+ years and I was also an engineer during that same period. ¬†As an engineer, I applied logical analysis to things I came across in my work. ¬†I didn‚Äôt just assume things were true because I wanted them to be true. ¬†But with religion, ¬†I didn‚Äôt apply the same standard. ¬†This is called compartmentalization, and we humans do it a lot, not just in relation to religion. ¬†It‚Äôs become very common in politics especially these days. ¬†But anyway, I reached a point where I stopped giving Christian claims that ‚Äúfree pass‚ÄĚ and started examining them more seriously. ¬†And I became an Ex-Christian. ¬†That doesn‚Äôt mean I‚Äôm still not subject to biases or compartmentalization still, because I‚Äôm still human. ¬†

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18 minutes ago, TABA said:

But with religion,  I didn’t apply the same standard.

You didn't have to because you belong to Jesus Christ. You aren't in this world to impress gentiles or read thousands of books so you can engage in apologetics.

 

Not sure of your personal testimony of why you felt torn away from Him but His hand is still stretched out.

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1 minute ago, SilentVoice said:

You didn't have to because you belong to Jesus Christ. You aren't in this world to impress gentiles or read thousands of books so you can engage in apologetics.

 

Jesus Christ

 

His second name isn't Christ

 

2 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

Not sure of your personal testimony of why you felt torn away from Him but His hand is still stretched out.

 

I can't exept such an evil doctrine that murders innocent animals and children, and don't come back with god can kill who he wants, and we're all evil. those animals weren't, babies aren't

 

 

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Just now, Steviejay said:

 

Jesus Christ

 

His second name isn't Christ

 

 

I can't exept such an evil doctrine that murders innocent animals and children, and don't come back with god can kill who he wants, and we're all evil. those animals weren't, babies aren't

 

 

He is Jesus Christ. Salvation, the word made flesh. The anointed one of God, the holy one of Israel, the messiah. None of your replies can change that. Amen.

 

Children of wicked people should have been killed. Unfortunately for God's people they disobeyed and left a bunch of them alive, and then for hundreds of years those same people grieved Israel and God used them as punishment. Just think, once Israel had crossed in to the promised land, they could have literally killed ALL the people that God commanded them to (because they had been judged worthy of death by God). What would have happened? They wouldn't have any neighbours to bother them any more. Peace.

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22 minutes ago, SilentVoice said:

I was seeking the truth about what was happening in the world and I was called to read the bible, pulled to it. I had trouble reading the O.T. and there were some things that I found upsetting, how some people were treated or suffered.

 

At the time I was also studying things like sacred geometry and learning from people who were liars. I was watching videos of one guy and it really bothered me that he'd contradict himself several times, especially about ancient history, aliens, enlightened masters, etc.

 

Then after a few weeks I read the gospel and I was crying all the way through the N.T. because I knew it was real and true. I can only attribute this to the supernatural and being called/chosen by God. Talking and discussing Christianity helped. Being met with questions that challenge my faith. Like one person claiming that the Mandela Effect had changed scripture because the verse that says "wolf will lie down the with lamb" used to be "lion will lie down with the lamb" and this really challenged me because it sounded true. I had to check scripture in several bibles to see if it had been changed in any. But I gave God the benefit of my doubts and chose to believe that nobody has power over the word of God, nobody can change Him or His will towards me, or the goodness of His promises. Turns out I was thinking about a picture I'd seen of a lion and lamb together representing God as protector of Israel. People have tried to undermine my faith after that too if I recall correctly (was a few years ago), using other scripture saying it had been changed but I knew it hadn't because I remembered it. They also like to push the idea of gnosticism and claim that I worship the demiurge and that the God of the O.T. was cruel where as the God of the N.T. was the highest God. It's not true.

 

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 16:28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

 

You testimony falls into the category of anecdotal evidence, meaning that this is a personal feeling of truth. There is no way for you to demonstrate it is true for anyone else. Here is where I would have a problem, I have someone like you come and tell me that the God of the Bible is real, it feels real to you, you give this God, or really in this circumstance, the Bible the benefit of the doubt. After you, I have someone from another religion come and tell me that they had the exact same experience, but they came to believe that a different religion was true, they felt drawn to it, they believed in it with their whole being. What am I to make of this? As an outsider, how I could I evaluate who is correct? I have cousins who are Mormons who believe as fervently as you do. There are thousands of religions and I could find people in each one who came to their beliefs by the same method you did. I would need a way to objectively determine who had it right. What method do you propose would do that?

 

Is it not possible you were drawn to the Bible because Christianity is the primary religion in the west? Is it not possible that if you grew up somewhere else you may have been drawn to a different religion that was more inline with the cultural norms?

 

I understand the emotional aspect of you conversion. Emotions are normally what drive conversion. I too felt very emotional the first time I reading the NT, like I was reading a divine truth. I used to think I was so right in my beliefs, until I met other Christians. They were just as dedicated to their beliefs as I was to mine, and it made me question whether or not I was saved. How could I know I was saved? Not just feel saved, but know that I was saved. I have other Christians telling me that if I am not living a certain way, evangelizing, going on mission trips, speaking in tongues, eating pork, not obeying the Sabbath, or a host of other doctrines that I am not really saved. How can so many people who find the Bible as the foundation of truth come to so many different conclusions on what the message is.

 

The first chink in the armor came from talking to some Jehovah witnesses. They would come over and we would argue doctrine and go through the Bible and they would cherry pick verses to come to a conclusion on why their doctrine is true. After five sessions of this, one of the guys asked me if it was reasonable that their interpretation was possible. That really hit home, he made a good point. Interpretation of the Bible is a human endeavor. There are no instructions on how to interpret it so everyone draws the same conclusions. To say that you have interpreted it correctly because you have some special knowledge/insight is a bit arrogant. I am humble enough to say that I do not know if my perceived interpretation is true, I do not know a lot of things, and I would be lying to myself if I just kept going forward in my beliefs without questioning how I came to believe them. I want you to consider this, how you understand the Bible could be false. The feelings you attribute to divine guidance could be nothing more than your own personal emotions at play. I know that may seem difficult to believe, but in the context of other people who believe just as much as you do, but disagree on conclusions, it should make you consider that you could be wrong.

 

I understand the point of the scripture quotes you included, but it would be too much here to go into Bible criticism about what critical scholars think of not only those verses, but the books themselves, the authors, dating, etc. Also, I would be stating things that you have never considered and it would just be over your head. Not in the sense that you are ignorant, just that what I would say would require you to think about the Bible differently than you do now.

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