WalterP Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Science is analogous to Christianity in many aspects. 4) A scapegoat for lack of completeness. 4) The Scientific Method IS the scapegoat.....Christ of Christianity IS the scapegoat. "We never will completely understand"...."we will never know God until someday....we have faith" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edgarcito, I've just performed the following searches on Google. 'Scapegoating in science' 'Examples of scapegoating in science' 'Scientific scapegoating' 'Scapegoated scientists' 'Is there scapegoating in the scientific community?' 'The Scientific Method IS the scapegoat' 'A scapegoat for lack of completeness + science' 'Incompleteness in science + scapegoat' 'Incomplete science + scapegoat' 'Is scapegoating a scientific practice?' I can find no relevant hits whatsoever. I therefore conclude that item # 4 on your list of analogies between science and Christianity exists only in your mind and not in reality. Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Edgarcito said: So I joined the band. Stops playing my clarinet long enough to flip Edgar the bird. (jk) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 2 hours ago, midniterider said: Stops playing my clarinet long enough to flip Edgar the bird. (jk) (Passes Midniterider a copy of Holst's First Suite in E Flat for Military Band and picks up her own clarinet) Let's rock! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Which is my point....there are many many adults that never reach emotional maturity....I just think acceptance comes in all shapes and sizes... I agree, but a lot of people never get there. This is a very true statement. The fundamentals latch onto them, put them into a box, and enable them to stay that way, dependent upon fantasy and hero worship. And they are "accepted", as long as they believe the fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Science gives us something to identify with, with regard to truth, where the pressure to be a certain way can be put on it.....kind of like the scapegoat aspect of Christ. So if a person can't identify with religion, then the alleviation of guilt can come through science. That you bring it up, not sure I have met many that were non-science, non-religious. So both science and religion are just forms of identity? You fall in with whatever group accepts you? Like cliques? There's nothing more to them than that? If we strip away all the specific trappings of each, like the jargon, costumes and whatnot, then we'll find they're really the same underneath? That's how I'm reading you here. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 14 hours ago, midniterider said: Stops playing my clarinet long enough to flip Edgar the bird. (jk) Lol, I played the violin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 11 hours ago, Astreja said: (Passes Midniterider a copy of Holst's First Suite in E Flat for Military Band and picks up her own clarinet) Let's rock! This is why I keep showing up....lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 30, 2020 Author Share Posted July 30, 2020 6 hours ago, mwc said: So both science and religion are just forms of identity? You fall in with whatever group accepts you? Like cliques? There's nothing more to them than that? If we strip away all the specific trappings of each, like the jargon, costumes and whatnot, then we'll find they're really the same underneath? That's how I'm reading you here. mwc Certainly more to them than that. No, I think it might be that you strip away those forms and have to ask ourselves what's left? What Edgarcito or mwc without external identity. Even hurts my brain to think about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Will Jesus be presented in some scientific way in order to attract exbelievers? Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Before we go any further Edgarcito, could you please make good on your current claims in this thread? Please provide evidence that the scientific method is the scapegoat in science. Evidence that we can test, check and examine. Please provide evidence of Christians receiving understanding from God. Evidence that we can test, check and examine. Please provide an example of spiritual evidence. An example that we can test, check and examine. Thank you. Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 30, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted July 30, 2020 9 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Certainly more to them than that. No, I think it might be that you strip away those forms and have to ask ourselves what's left? What Edgarcito or mwc without external identity. Even hurts my brain to think about this... Are you suggesting that identity stems from whoever accepts you? That the fundamental "you" is merely a lump of clay waiting to be molded by whatever group happens to not hate you? Because I would strenuously argue that who I accept is a product of who I am. Not the other way around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 15 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Certainly more to them than that. No, I think it might be that you strip away those forms and have to ask ourselves what's left? What Edgarcito or mwc without external identity. Even hurts my brain to think about this... So it's not about the group then? It's about us? Just sitting alone in a cave or something? So if we were born then placed in isolation with zero outside stimulation? I won't go into figuring out how we manage to grow up in such a situation but we'll just gloss over that problem. So we just sit alone in some plain neutral colored room (I'd say a void but I don't know how that might work) with no contact with anyone or anything? Then we say that's who we are because we had zero external influences so that must be our true internal identity? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Are you suggesting that identity stems from whoever accepts you? That the fundamental "you" is merely a lump of clay waiting to be molded by whatever group happens to not hate you? Because I would strenuously argue that who I accept is a product of who I am. Not the other way around. I don't think we may argue that for many individuals this IS the case. Affirmation, belonging, proficiency, love, acceptance. Those things sure make me want to lean that way vs. I'm gonna hang out with these folks that hate my liver and innards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 8 hours ago, mwc said: So it's not about the group then? It's about us? Just sitting alone in a cave or something? So if we were born then placed in isolation with zero outside stimulation? I won't go into figuring out how we manage to grow up in such a situation but we'll just gloss over that problem. So we just sit alone in some plain neutral colored room (I'd say a void but I don't know how that might work) with no contact with anyone or anything? Then we say that's who we are because we had zero external influences so that must be our true internal identity? mwc Sounds reasonable to me.... A baby starts out in a void room, void is all it knows outside of genetics. I'm just pondering the thought....don't shoot the messenger. What do you think is an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalterP Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Hello again Edgarcito. As well as making good on these currently unsupported claims... Please provide evidence that the scientific method is the scapegoat in science. Evidence that we can test, check and examine. Please provide evidence of Christians receiving understanding from God. Evidence that we can test, check and examine. Please provide an example of spiritual evidence. An example that we can test, check and examine. ...would you please also provide evidence that for many individuals their identity stems from whoever accepts them? Evidence that we can test, check and examine, please. Thank you. Walter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 31, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Edgarcito said: I don't think we may argue that for many individuals this IS the case. Affirmation, belonging, proficiency, love, acceptance. Those things sure make me want to lean that way vs. I'm gonna hang out with these folks that hate my liver and innards. That is a very limiting approach to life, though. The hard truth is that I will never be happy living somebody else's version of my life, being someone else's idea of "me" I tried it for the first 30 years of my life; and I was miserable. I am one, a unique individual, the only version of "me" that exists. I think I owe it to myself, if not everybody around me, to be the best "me" I can be. It takes more courage to live this way. As they say, though, any old dead fish can float down the river; but it takes a live one to swim upstream against the current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: That is a very limiting approach to life, though. The hard truth is that I will never be happy living somebody else's version of my life, being someone else's idea of "me" I tried it for the first 30 years of my life; and I was miserable. I am one, a unique individual, the only version of "me" that exists. I think I owe it to myself, if not everybody around me, to be the best "me" I can be. It takes more courage to live this way. As they say, though, any old dead fish can float down the river; but it takes a live one to swim upstream against the current. Excellent thoughts. Again, thinking out loud, what do you think defines the "me" in each of us.....i.e. is there a "me" before external stimuli. Also, would a person pursue the same "me" things regardless of circumstance? Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 31, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Excellent thoughts. Again, thinking out loud, what do you think defines the "me" in each of us.....i.e. is there a "me" before external stimuli. Also, would a person pursue the same "me" things regardless of circumstance? Thx. You've hit on the only real question - who are you, really? From birth we are given a name, told how to "behave" and what our family expects of us. So who are you, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 31, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted July 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Excellent thoughts. Again, thinking out loud, what do you think defines the "me" in each of us.....i.e. is there a "me" before external stimuli. Also, would a person pursue the same "me" things regardless of circumstance? Thx. I think, ultimately, it is up to each of us to overcome nature/nurture and define ourselves. We can blame neither, as they are only guides. Nor can we play the victim of circumstance (especially, as is often the case, when we create the circumstance), for circumstance is fleeting; and the quintessential "me" is less temporary. If you're looking to place blame for how you turned out, the mirror would be the best place to start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 13 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Sounds reasonable to me.... A baby starts out in a void room, void is all it knows outside of genetics. I'm just pondering the thought....don't shoot the messenger. What do you think is an alternative. I see. Well, this tends to result in death. See Frederick II. He tried to do a linguistic experiment where he raised a bunch of kids with no speech or other real contact other than the very basics (ie. food, bathing, etc.). He wanted to see what language they would speak naturally (he wanted to know what language Adam and Eve would have spoke). They short answer is they died. It takes more than the basics for a baby to survive. They need some form of "socialization" (it can come in many forms) to survive and thrive. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyGone Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I no more consider myself a "good person" than I did when I was a believer. I know what the bible says about our nature and the best within any of us, in God's view. I believe that all honesty for any adult on this earth begins with the realization and understanding that each of us either produces as much as we consume, or we do not. Sure, it varies day to day, but on average over time... If you look and determine that you are not producing as much as you consume then honesty demands that you ask "who then has produced what I consume, and by what mechanism did it reach my hands?". You can cite Jesus' teachings about "good vs evil" all day, but the above is a fundamental truth of our existence on earth. In my belief, until you have the courage to confront that one question, the rest is vanity and foolishness. I'm forever amazed how many Christians are true socialists at heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiChrist Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 On 7/29/2020 at 4:29 AM, Edgarcito said: The inquiry today is, what happens when you adopt the science, no-religion life, but you're still not perfect......a bad person, a "SINNNNNERRRR". Thanks. How is life religious in nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgarcito Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 On 9/17/2020 at 12:29 PM, AntiChrist said: How is life religious in nature? Religious by what definition please? Religious behavior or religion. Thx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Krowb ◊ Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 4:54 PM, Edgarcito said: Excellent thoughts. Again, thinking out loud, what do you think defines the "me" in each of us.....i.e. is there a "me" before external stimuli. Also, would a person pursue the same "me" things regardless of circumstance? Thx. From my admittedly limited understanding, there may not be a "me" at all, but competing impulses or even multiple "me's". Split brain studies on the subject are fascinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiChrist Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Edgarcito said: Religious by what definition please? Religious behavior or religion. Thx. Religious by religion (Naturally) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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