mwc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 So anti-rape bad, pro-rape good? It does open up a lot of possibilities I hadn't considered until you guys suggested them here I guess... I'm gonna have to pray on this line of reasoning. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 I think there is a bit of meaningless semantics at play here. So lets say I think religion (You can insert whatever you'd like here - racism, rape, violence etc) is harmful and we would be better off without it. So I can be anti these things (Opposed to) or I can be pro getting rid of these things... which is exactly the same as being opposed to it. You are simply hiding your anti position behind semantics. Anti is not a negative word, it's a word that indicates opposition to whatever follows it. If we become pro getting rid of religion then given enough time people will attach negative connotations to it and so the word pro will be treated as negative. Instead of anti inflammatory should we have pro noninflammatory? If you are anti racism you are opposed to racism. What's the pro of that? You are pro not judging people by their race? Isn't that being opposed to racism? Therefore aren't you anti-racist by another name? It's like people who say I don't believe in any gods, but I'm not atheist. Yeah... um... a word on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 6 hours ago, midniterider said: Anti is what you want to get rid of, has a limited purpose and narrow scope, while 'pro-something' is open ended and available for growth and new direction. "Anti-whatever-the-fuck" might make a cool t-shirt though. So I'm anti-rape and pro consensual sex. Good enough? How about anti harmful religion, and pro reality? I really think I've nailed this anti and pro dichotomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, mwc said: So anti-rape bad, pro-rape good? Watch again. Anti-war versus pro-peace. Translate to rape. Anti-rape versus pro-consenting sex. So the question would actually be, "anti-rape bad, pro-consenting sex good?" And the answer would be yes, if by good you mean taking a positive outlook rather than a negative one given the choice between the two options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Watch again. Anti-war versus pro-peace. Translate to rape. Anti-rape versus pro-consenting sex. So the question would actually be, "anti-rape bad, pro-consenting sex good?" And the answer would be yes, if by good you mean taking a positive outlook rather than a negative one given the choice between the two options. Anti-bacterial. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 34 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: So I'm anti-rape and pro consensual sex. Good enough? How about anti harmful religion, and pro reality? I really think I've nailed this anti and pro dichotomy. I think I remember now. It wasn't Allan Watts, it was Ghandi. Ghandi didn't want to attend an anti-war rally, he said if you have a pro-peace rally then let him know. The semantics seem to make a difference in attitude. Especially concerning the rallying aspect of these "anti" things. So in context, I think this says a lot about "anti-theism." The militant and disgruntled attitudes that usually accompany. It could be done entirely different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, mwc said: Anti-bacterial. mwc Pro-beneficial bacteria..... Quote Are probiotics better than antibiotics? While antibiotics kill off bad bacteria, they can also disrupt your gut's complex microbiome, the microscopic community of bacteria that work together to make everything run smoothly. ... Probiotic treatments contain helpful live bacteria — think the probiotics that are found in yogurt — to restore order to your gut.Dec 3, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, LogicalFallacy said: Instead of anti inflammatory should we have pro noninflammatory? If you are anti racism you are opposed to racism. What's the pro of that? You are pro not judging people by their race? Isn't that being opposed to racism? Therefore aren't you anti-racist by another name? Yes, you're choosing a positive outlook for yourself and encouraging it, rather than parading a negative outlook and trying to impose it on others. It's a difference in consciousness, mindset, mentality. You're for something rather than framing your mind against things. Framing your mind against all these things has the effect of bringing people down. Just look at all that's going on. It can run you down mentality. And essentially can have an effect on mental health. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: Are probiotics better than antibiotics? While antibiotics kill off bad bacteria, they can also disrupt your gut's complex microbiome, the microscopic community of bacteria that work together to make everything run smoothly. ... Probiotic treatments contain helpful live bacteria — think the probiotics that are found in yogurt — to restore order to your gut.Dec 3, 2018 Depends on what your situation is. If you have a gut that just needs more beneficial bacteria, then probiotics is good. But if you have a bacterial infection that's going to kill you I'd suggest taking anti biotics, because all the probiotics in the world won't help you if you don't get rid of the bad bacteria. Sometimes nuking the good with the bad is necessary if you want to survive. We could draw an analogy here and say maybe we do need anti-theism to get rid of religion. Sure, there might be a few good religions that go, but the overall effect is that the infection is removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Joshpantera said: So I should use a probiotic or spread yogurt on my floors, counters and toilets so they keep their healthy microbiome? Or should I use something a bit more anti-bacterial? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said: We could draw an analogy here and say maybe we do need anti-theism to get rid of religion. Sure, there might be a few good religions that go, but the overall effect is that the infection is removed. The funny thing is, what you describe, is called "anti-religion" and not "anti-theism." mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 6, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, mwc said: The funny thing is, what you describe, is called "anti-religion" and not "anti-theism." mwc Yeah but I'm just pissing around with semantics. It be more technically correct to say ... get rid of God belief. But since most religions have a God belief as the central tenant I think the analogy stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 minute ago, LogicalFallacy said: Yeah but I'm just pissing around with semantics. It be more technically correct to say ... get rid of God belief. But since most religions have a God belief as the central tenant I think the analogy stands. That's all I'm doing too. Being a bit of a nuisance in the early morning here. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 6, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted August 6, 2020 I'm not against the direction in which this conversation has gone; but I am pro-not-taking-it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 4 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said: Depends on what your situation is. If you have a gut that just needs more beneficial bacteria, then probiotics is good. But if you have a bacterial infection that's going to kill you I'd suggest taking anti biotics, because all the probiotics in the world won't help you if you don't get rid of the bad bacteria. Sometimes nuking the good with the bad is necessary if you want to survive. We could draw an analogy here and say maybe we do need anti-theism to get rid of religion. Sure, there might be a few good religions that go, but the overall effect is that the infection is removed. Calling Dr Fallacy, Calling Dr Fallacy, you have another C Diff patient because of anti-biotic overuse. https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/124682/antimicrobial-resistant-infections/antibiotic-overuse-linked-c-diff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 If anti-inflammatories or anti-bacterials reach deep into your being for social justice and equality, then grab a bottle of Ibuprofen or Formula 409 and march through the streets. #Antiinflammatoriesmatter #Antibacterialsmatter 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I don't know what the hell is going on here. But I do know that I'm an atheist, and not just "pro no god". Seriously, this anti/pro thing seems to me to be a false distinction. If you're for 'x', then you're "pro x". If y is diametrically opposed to x, and you're "pro y", then you are, by default, "anti x" as well. There's no need to make more of this than what it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 7, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, disillusioned said: There's no need to make more of this than what it is. Where's the fun in that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 28 minutes ago, disillusioned said: There's no need to make more of this than what it is. As I said, it's largely semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 You guys get it. Clearly if you're pro-life you're anti-death penalty as well. Ask anyone who is pro-life. That's why pro-life is so much more useful than anti-abortion. It just makes sense. And, of course, pro-life is such a powerful position to take. There's all those anti-lifers out there trying to extinguish all forms of life through-out the universe including themselves. Standing up for life, in general, is refreshing. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted August 7, 2020 Super Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 I'm neither confirming nor denying that I belong to a loose confederation of left-wing anti-fascist activists; I'm just saying I am pro-not-fa. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 I'm not anti-<whatever>, I'm just pro-anti-<whatever>. So I'm not one of *those* negative people. Ick. I just actively support them in a positive way. mwc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
◊ Weezer ◊ Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 16 hours ago, Joshpantera said: Yes, you're choosing a positive outlook for yourself and encouraging it, rather than parading a negative outlook and trying to impose it on others. It's a difference in consciousness, mindset, mentality. You're for something rather than framing your mind against things. Framing your mind against all these things has the effect of bringing people down. Just look at all that's going on. It can run you down mentality. And essentially can have an effect on mental health. Thank you for your wise explanation! I totally agree. The negativity on this website bothers me at times, and the bickering sometimes reminds me of junior high school. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 7 hours ago, mwc said: I'm not anti-<whatever>, I'm just pro-anti-<whatever>. So I'm not one of *those* negative people. Ick. I just actively support them in a positive way. mwc Now you're talk'n!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Joshpantera Posted August 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2020 8 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: I'm neither confirming nor denying that I belong to a loose confederation of left-wing anti-fascist activists; I'm just saying I am pro-not-fa. The Ghandi of antifa..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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