Jump to content
LeiaBryant

I found something EVERY atheist should see.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, LeiaBryant said:

I have no problem with someone believe in leprechauns if they want to as long as you're not forcing it on anyone else or harming anyone what's the problem? can we have a pluralistic society instead of a secular one why is that bad? also just so you know some of my magick does involve the Fae,  fairies. I believe in fairies just as much as Christians believe in angels, and technically leprechauns would qualify as a type of Fae though I've never done any spells involving them.

 

My relative says the Democrats are destroying America and paints a picture of liberal totalitarianism repressing his freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

A Christian says satanic atheists are destroying America and paints a picture of secular totalitarianism repressing our  freedom.  Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

An atheist says Christianity will destroy America and paints a picture of religious totalitarianism repressing our freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mwc I remember the pink roller skates episode. Might hunt down the page. I recall taking part. Didn't see any roller skates though let alone pink ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am frankly amazed by those who can't see the hold Christianity already has on our secular laws and their denial of an agenda to go even further. Waving the flag and carrying the Bible is literally where we are in politics now. http://christianpoliticalparty.com/religion-and-government-in-the-united-states/

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

My relative says the Democrats are destroying America and paints a picture of liberal totalitarianism repressing his freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

A Christian says satanic atheists are destroying America and paints a picture of secular totalitarianism repressing our  freedom.  Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

An atheist says Christianity will destroy America and paints a picture of religious totalitarianism repressing our freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

 

 

Do atheists actually say this? Genuinely asking. If so, which ones?

 

It seems to me that Christianity is a part of the foundation upon which America (and most western nations, for that matter...but let's stick with America for simplicity) was built. I have heard quite a few atheists objecting to Christian influences on society, but I've not seen them taking the position that Christianity will destroy America. Rather, the more common position that I have observed is that Christianity is an integral part of America as it is constructed, and therefore, if we want true cultural reform, true progress, we must perforce do away with Christianity.

It's not so much that religious totalitarians will repress our freedom in the future if we do not act now; it is more that western society as constructed is already inherently religious, and this is a part of the reason why life sucks right now. If we wish it to improve, we should consider taking action.

 

I think this is bit different from someone claiming that radical totalitarians or satanic atheists are attempting to establish a new regime which will repress freedom. For one thing, it's much less fanciful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

My relative says the Democrats are destroying America and paints a picture of liberal totalitarianism repressing his freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

A Christian says satanic atheists are destroying America and paints a picture of secular totalitarianism repressing our  freedom.  Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

An atheist says Christianity will destroy America and paints a picture of religious totalitarianism repressing our freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

 

 

 

Actually, it's those god damn leprechauns who are destroying America.  Fucking Irish hobgoblins and their pixie-ass clovers.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Actually, it's those god damn leprechauns who are destroying America.  Fucking Irish hobgoblins and their pixie-ass clovers.  

 

They're as bad as the Christians with their pushing legislation to take the rainbow back from the gays and returning to the gold standard. And America was NOT founded as a leprechaunist republic no matter what they claim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Me: An atheist says Christianity will destroy America and paints a picture of religious totalitarianism repressing our freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

 

Disillusioned: Do atheists actually say this? Genuinely asking. If so, which ones?

 

Florduh: "For reasons stated earlier I think all god belief has a negative impact on progress and responsibility. Other than that, America is currently in the midst of a concerted effort by a number of Christians to literally take over the government and legislate the general population in line with their particular interpretation of the Bible. This is a fight we can't afford to shrink away from for fear of being labeled, even by atheists, as "angry anti-theists who won't just live and let live." Since they have become a political force I consider them an enemy of freedom and our constitutional government. The widespread god belief is not benign as in that mindset even non-Christians tend to embrace, allow and excuse their sacred beliefs in the name of religious freedom."

 

.....

 

Destroy America vs Take over the government....similar?

Religious totalitarianism vs legislate the general population in line with...the bible....similar? 

 

Concerted effort to take over the government...reference to the future. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

I have no problem with someone believe in leprechauns if they want to as long as you're not forcing it on anyone else or harming anyone what's the problem? can we have a pluralistic society instead of a secular one why is that bad? also just so you know some of my magick does involve the Fae,  fairies. I believe in fairies just as much as Christians believe in angels, and technically leprechauns would qualify as a type of Fae though I've never done any spells involving them.

 

Some people feel that every religion is harmful because they found Christianity to be harmful. Some people feel that magical thinking is harmful because Christians use magical thinking and they found Christianity to be harmful. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, midniterider said:

 

Me: An atheist says Christianity will destroy America and paints a picture of religious totalitarianism repressing our freedom. Life in the future will suck if we dont act now.

 

Disillusioned: Do atheists actually say this? Genuinely asking. If so, which ones?

 

Florduh: "For reasons stated earlier I think all god belief has a negative impact on progress and responsibility. Other than that, America is currently in the midst of a concerted effort by a number of Christians to literally take over the government and legislate the general population in line with their particular interpretation of the Bible. This is a fight we can't afford to shrink away from for fear of being labeled, even by atheists, as "angry anti-theists who won't just live and let live." Since they have become a political force I consider them an enemy of freedom and our constitutional government. The widespread god belief is not benign as in that mindset even non-Christians tend to embrace, allow and excuse their sacred beliefs in the name of religious freedom."

 

.....

 

Destroy America vs Take over the government....similar?

Religious totalitarianism vs legislate the general population in line with...the bible....similar? 

 

Concerted effort to take over the government...reference to the future. 

 

 

Fair enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, midniterider said:

 

Some people feel that every religion is harmful because they found Christianity to be harmful. Some people feel that magical thinking is harmful because Christians use magical thinking and they found Christianity to be harmful. 

     Some people (I won't name names but it might just include my own name) have noticed a pattern since the beginning of written history that all religions, which very much includes polytheists, have engaged in harmful actions in spite of what people today like to think about said religions.  It didn't all start ~2000 years ago with xianity nor ~3000 or so years ago with Judaism or even ~4000 years ago if we want to include some guy named Abraham.  It's not all about the torah, bible or koran with their beliefs and cast of characters.  Xianity just happens to be the most prominent player at the moment and the one that is used for illustration since we're all familiar with it.  If this were another place and time we'd use something else for this purpose and I imagine it would elicit the same sort of response (ie. we do not like <religion/belief> because we found <religion/belief> to be harmful).  It makes it unassailable.  I find the beliefs of the past to be problematic.  I was never harmed by these.  Do I wish to have a resurgence of these practices?  The answer is no.  They should stay in the past.

 

     Magical thinking is something everyone engages in at some point and to some degree.  It is the very nature of the character of Superman.  We all want to be able to be a "Superman" of some sort.  To control the uncontrollable.  To bring an order to chaos.  To be have power where we have none.  The idea that we can pray to a higher power or make an appeal to the universe using some sort of spells or magic (or magick) and gain some form of control of the uncaring utter indifference of existence is comforting.  The very idea is highly appealing.  The problem lies in its appeal and the actual belief that you really can affect change over the world instead of just imagining that you can.  When one has no way to test whether or not their magical thinking is actually having effect or not.  So harm comes when one uses magical thinking to solve problems that are best solved other ways.  Christian Scientists are very much a poster child for this since they take it to the logical extreme.  They rely on their magic over all and when it "fails" it's not a failure but a positive result.  It's the will of their god that the results went the way they did whether or not it was good or bad as far as we might see things.  So a prayer happens and they live?  Good result.  A prayer happens and a person dies?  Still a good result.  That's magical thinking in action.  A spell is cast and pink roller skates are spotted with one year?  Success?  A spell is cast and no roller skates?  It's not that magic is false but the spell was cast wrong or the caster wasn't powerful enough or the spell was a success and perhaps the results weren't noticed.  It's all magical thinking in action.  The control aspect remains.  It's necessary for comforting the person engaging in the action.

 

          mwc

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the prevailing world view often tries to suppress smaller world views that dont agree with it or want to think differently.

 

Some people have a rosy view of a future without religion. I'm old and cynical , though. 

 

Conjecture regarding a possible future:

"And in the news today radical Dawkins-ites vandalized the Hitchens Foundation building in Portland, claiming Hitchens was a know-nothing because he was never a scientist ...in other news a bakery owner denied baking two Wiccans a wedding cake , stating "religion is horseshit." 

 

.....

 

Today:

White people prevail over the minorities and treat them poorly.

Christianity prevails over atheists and treats them poorly. 

 

And that's terrible. 

 

But I really don't think religion will ever go away since it has been around in one form or another since the beginning of time. Nor will humanity cease giving birth to people who will eventually become fanatical assholes no matter what the prevailing winds happen to be. The best we can hope to do (imo) is educate and strongly impress on humanity that loving your fellow humans as they are is much more important than spreading your religion. 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, midniterider said:

I think the prevailing world view often tries to suppress smaller world views that dont agree with it or want to think differently.

 

Some people have a rosy view of a future without religion. I'm old and cynical , though. 

 

Conjecture regarding a possible future:

"And in the news today radical Dawkins-ites vandalized the Hitchens Foundation building in Portland, claiming Hitchens was a know-nothing because he was never a scientist ...in other news a bakery owner denied baking two Wiccans a wedding cake , stating "religion is horseshit." 

 

.....

 

Today:

White people prevail over the minorities and treat them poorly.

Christianity prevails over atheists and treats them poorly. 

 

And that's terrible. 

 

But I really don't think religion will ever go away since it has been around in one form or another since the beginning of time. Nor will humanity cease giving birth to people who will eventually become fanatical assholes no matter what the prevailing winds happen to be. The best we can hope to do (imo) is educate and strongly impress on humanity that loving your fellow humans as they are is much more important than spreading your religion. 

 

 

 

 

This exactly!! We need pluralism and tolerance far more than secularism. If atheism was the majority how would I be treated for being religious? My religion having hegemony is not my goal. Equality and pluralism is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

This exactly!! We need pluralism and tolerance far more than secularism. If atheism was the majority how would I be treated for being religious? My religion having hegemony is not my goal. Equality and pluralism is.

 

I don't think you understand what secularism is. You are confusing it with something else. What that something else is I don't know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/12/2020 at 1:45 PM, florduh said:

I am frankly amazed by those who can't see the hold Christianity already has on our secular laws and their denial of an agenda to go even further. Waving the flag and carrying the Bible is literally where we are in politics now. http://christianpoliticalparty.com/religion-and-government-in-the-united-states/

 

 

I wave the flag.

I do not carry a Bible.

The apparent trend of lumping the two together is a cause of discontent for me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you guys seriously not concerned about the fucking leprechauns?!?  

 

 

Eva-widermann-leprechaun.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don’t worry about the leprechauns: you’ve got me, a full blooded Irishman.  I’ll deal with those feckers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TheRedneckProfessor You're worried about leprechauns? Wait until you run into a taniwha my man. You try building a bridge if there is a taniwha in the water - see what happens!

 

taniwha.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the subject of magical thinking we have been discussing - I found this in the paper. Hmm coincidence? I think not. Something or someone is trying to tell us something!Magical thinking.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LeiaBryant said:

This exactly!! We need pluralism and tolerance far more than secularism. If atheism was the majority how would I be treated for being religious? My religion having hegemony is not my goal. Equality and pluralism is.

 

Leia,

 

 

If your aim is for equality with other magically-thinking theisms, then that puts you on a par with Christianity, Judaism, Islam and similar.

 

If they are all equalised with each other, on what basis is it decided that one theism is harmful and another one isn't?

 

And who gets to decide this?

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, WalterP said:

 

Leia,

 

 

If your aim is for equality with other magically-thinking theisms, then that puts you on a par with Christianity, Judaism, Islam and similar.

 

If they are all equalised with each other, on what basis is it decided that one theism is harmful and another one isn't?

 

And who gets to decide this?

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

I think BITE model cults are harmful and normal religion is not.  We need experts on cults to help figure out the specifics and excult members are the first group to look to for expertize in this area . Also I put all forms of theism to be as an equal to atheism . I don't think you're necessarily inherently better than people who are theists or worse than them. so I want a pluralistic society where everyone is treated equally and there's no favoritism towards a particular flavor of theism or toward secularism. Edit: note some types of Christianity are not harmful but others are. For example you don't see Unitarians shooting up abortion clinics now do you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, LeiaBryant said:

 so I want a pluralistic society where everyone is treated equally and there's no favoritism towards a particular flavor of theism or toward secularism. 

 

Again, I don't think you understand what secularism is. You are basically advocating for secularism here! That's the whole crux of it - not religion gets preferential treatment by the state! That's exactly what you want yet you don't want favoritism towards secularism when all secularism advocates is treading all religions equally. I has a cofuzibubbled.

 

Would you mind giving YOUR definition and understanding of what secularism is?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.