Blotted Out Of Book Of Life

[spamandham]

I can assure you all that I'm not a troll; what I'm saying is very sincere. My dread is very real, and, believe it or not, I'm not trying to convert anyone.

 

Since you've stuck around longer than the usual troll, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

I spent this last Passover in dread, thinking that I was going to be slain by God. For as the Israelites were to be slain if they did not have The Blood of The Lamb upon their doorposts,

 

Jason, you are speaking in contradictions. On the one hand you say you don't believe, but on the other hand you act as if you do! If you didn't believe, then you wouldn't be worried about being killed by god. The fact that you are concerned about it means you do believe.

 

If that doesn't make sense to you, then you are suffering from severe psychological problems and need professional help.

 

I wish I had never been born. I'm just wondering why I haven't been stricken down yet; It's been 7 months. I'm thinking that it will probably happen on a specific day, that corresponds to something in the Jewish calendar, even as I feel that I was cast out on Rosh Hashanah.

 

I'm not sure why you would think god is obsessed with cycles around the sun as humans are, but if you can hold out a whole year, will you be able to dispense with this nonsense? Clearly many of us have survived multiple years, why does that not assuade your fears?

 

Answer these questions or be written off as a troll.

[jasonwhatever]

Well, I will cite The Scriptures that keep running through my head that make me feel impending doom: "even denying The Lord Who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destructino." What is this swift destruction? Honestly, in my heart I was getting tired of being perfect, or trying to be perfect all the time, but it's not like I became a false teacher, working directly opposed to The Gospel. When you receive The Holy Spirit at 19, before you've had an opportunity to live and be happy and discover what you want out of life, it becomes rather tiresome quick to have to be totally dependant in prayer and obedience to God. Much less when you are gay, and God hates that. What? Did He expect me to marry a woman anyway? Or, did He expect me to never have sex? Either I would have been miserable, or I would have been sinning. Another Scripture that terrifies me is where Jesus Said "If a man not abide in Me, he is cast out. And men gather them and cast them into the fire." I'm assuming these men that cast them into the fire are angels. Another Scripture in Revelation Jesus is talking about a false prophetess seducing His people, and He Says, "I will slay her children with death, except they repent." The Scripture "sin unto death" is terrifying. Then The Book of Enoch, which clearly was used by the apostles. It speaks of different departments of hell. The worst is that of the apostates, I believe, is it's meaning. "These are they who were slain in the days of the sinners." "Those are they who were complete in transgression...." I believe it is in about the 24th chapter. I already know what the unpardonable sin is: it is to fall away after having received The Holy Spirit, to deny The Lord after He has bought a person. "Either make the tree good and it's fruit good, or make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt." If one sins to the point that The Holy Spirit withdraws from that person, that person is damned for eternity. It is, as David calls it, "The Great Transgression." For, in God's Eyes, they have crucified The Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame. (Hebrews)

[jasonwhatever]

I wanted to add one other thing. What about King Solomon? Did he not commit the "sin unto death" and "great transgression?" It's obvious that God hates Saul. But, it seems that Solomon also denied The Lord.

 

Jesus Christ Taught that men will be judge according to the measure of spiritual light they have received. Well, then consider Solomon. God visited Solomon twice in dreams, even presenting blessings for him to choose from. Solomon was filled with Wisdom by The Spirit of God. So, then, it is obvious that Solomon was among those in Old Testament times who received The Holy Spirit. Solomon also dedicated dedicated The Temple, and upon doing so made a proclomation before many witnesses of faith in the Supremacy of Jehovah...."even the heavens cannot contain Thy Glory." So, then, Solomon received some of the greatest light by God's Spirit of all human beings who have ever lived. Why, then, does it seem that he is not also damned? Despite this, Solomon grew old, and loved thousands of women, was filthy rich, and had world-famous wisdom. When he was young, God loved Solomon, and Solomon destroyed the high places and temples of the false gods. When he was young, Solomon sacrificed many many sacrfices unto God. However, when he grew older, his heart was turned away from God, and with the same zeal that before he tore down the pagan alters before, he now built them up. He took in wives of lands with strange gods and he multiplied them across the land. Thereby, the nation was led by this "man of God" into idolatry.

 

Yet, apparantly God did not strike him dead. At the end of his life, he was still writing proverbs and books by The Holy Spirit. God determined to bring judgment for Solomon's sins, but instead of bringing it upon Solomon directly, He brought it upon the nation. And, for David's sake, he did not bring it in Solomon's days, but afterward when Solomon was dead did God bring destruction on the nation. (I think that's how it goes, from memory."

 

Where is Solomon, then? Is he in hell? Is he in the lake of fire? According to the measure of light we have received, we will be judged. Solomon surely received The Holy Spirit. Solomon surely sinned against The Lord. I kind of seriously doubt that Solomon is in hell. Why? For David's sake, God probably spared Solomon. This doesn't seem just in any way whatsoever.

 

David sinned also, but instead of punishing David directly, God slayed David's child, and brought (or allowed to come) rape upon one of his relatives, and caused (or allowed to come about) rebellion from his son, and punished Israel also.

 

David sinned another time with the counting of Israel. For this, God sent an angel to plague Israel, instead of plagueing David. That night thousands of Jews died.

 

In the making of the golden calf, many were slain for that sin, yet not Aaron who was the one who actually made the calf.

 

So, then, I see that God will "have mercy on who I will to have Mercy, and harden who I will to harden."

 

I'm just confused. Solomon became an outright seducer of Israel, leading them into idolatry, on the level of pope john paul II and his love of mary, if not more so. Yet, where was judgement on Solomon? I used to destroy images. I used to have a catholic apostate room, but he kept his mary statue. When he moved out, he left it. I went down there and broke it into pieces because it is an idol. I never allowed images at all.

 

God has given man a mind to be able to judge what is right and what is wrong. I don't see how some of the judgements are right. I guess God had a liking for substitutionary penalties back in the Old Testament too.

[Ouroboros]

Jason, you're asking the right questions. And we've asked the same ones. The only answer most of us would say is that the Judeo/Christian God can't be true. But not necessarely saying that a god or many gods or power or whatever still exists. We just don't think the Bible version of God can be true, because it just doesn't add up.

[Guest Emerson]

Well Judaism and Islam both claim that if you don't follow their gods, beliefs and do good deeds then you will find yourself doomed. I'm not going to be believing anytime soon in Judaism or Islam, so I don't think that fear of christianity is reasonable either. All religions are man made.

 

I think that its actually harder to live a life outside of the religious box, than inside it. People outside of religion can't always run to their deity if they still have one. Now they have to think for themselves and do for themselves instead of relying on religion to do it for them.

 

Jason, I get where your coming from when I was a christian, I was so confused and lost, and I was paranoid if anything disturbed my belief in God and Christianity. If people had different opinions then that was a threat as well. I was irrational, made a ton of bad decisions, and was very impulsive. I have felt the way that you feel, that if you don't have God and Christianity then life is meaningless and everything doesn't make sense.

 

I think that you really should just ride this thing out or go to counseling to a secular one not a christian one, if this doesn't get better. Its a good thing that you're asking lots of questions, that's what really makes a difference between those who do and find the truth and those who continue to look down and live in ignorance.

 

Try to look at religion from the perspective of a critic, or take a world religions course in college, a secular college, try to get out of your bubble, just because people believe in something doesn't make it real or true.

 

So what if you're wrong? At least you come out at the other side, stronger and more intellectual than you have been before. And you will have more or less an idea of where to go in life now that you know the truth.

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if God/the universe/higher being/power is looking down at us and our foolishness and seeing us argue and debate with each other on which religion is "right" and trying to impose it on others. Maybe if there is a God, then he doesn't care what way people worship him. Maybe God is big enough to understand that we do our best when it comes to faith and reason and belief. Again this is maybe and if territory, I don't know the truth.

 

But don't miss out on life. We will probably never have the answers to our many, many questions about life, God and the meaning of life. But please don't miss out on life by being paranoid when it comes to religion. Live the life that you've been given.

[Guest Emerson]

You know what Jason? This is pretty bad of a situation to be in! Do you honestly really believe that a loving, fathering God would actually want you to be paranoid like this? You say everything is gone, your job, your future, your peace. This is what religion does to people, it makes them paranoid and act irrational. Please Jason, go to a psychologist, a counselor of some kind, but don't go to a christian or religious one. Go to someone who will be more objective like a secular counselor.

 

Just telling your fears to someone will help, and I don't think that its coincidence that Judaism, Islam, and Christianity both claim that doom will fall on those who chose to deny religion. Hell is a way of keeping people in line. Come on Jason, you sound like a smart guy, don't let religion rob you of yourself and your way of life.

 

Well if you really believe in something, even if its not true...then you might try to make it to come true. Its called, self-fulfilling prophecy. Again, Jason you have a huge control over your life. Maybe not everything, but in day to day decision you have a huge control.

 

Okay, I have an experience to tell you. When I went away on a trip, I was walking down this touristy area and found a religious coin, on it was printed "Jesus christ is the lord...whoever calls on him will have eternal life" just because I had that experience of finding a coin, doesn't mean that any of it is real.

 

I found out that some christian sects do things like that. Its was just another piece of religious propaganda. I still have that coin as a sentiment. Trust me, there are better ways to live and you're living in fear right now. That's not a way to live. So please live your life, don't give up your freedom to religion and paranoia.

 

 

The Scriptures warn against falling away, saying that if they had once received The Holy Spirit, and then fall away, "it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.....a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries." This goes hand-in-hand with the "blasphemy against The Holy Spirit" and the "sin unto death," which John Speaks of.

 

In The Scriptures, both Old Testament and New Testament, it speaks about A Book of Life, which God sometimes blots people out of. According to Jewish teaching in The Talmud, this occurs on Rosh Hashanah. Those who were once made Righteous by The Blood of Christ, but have lost The Holy Spirit, on that day are converted from the Book of Life to the Book of Death. And an awareness goes out, at the heralding of the blowing of the shofar. Apparantly, by the end of that year, the person will be slain by God.

 

I believe that I have experienced this, and will be slain by God by the end of the year. The last seven months have been a total nightmare, living in total horror and dread. This occured after I said "O my God!" I'm 27 years old, and am going to be dead and in the lake of fire by next Rosh Hashanah?!

 

Seems strange to me that people can live long lifes of raging sin and wickedness against by God and man, and then repent later and be saved. But, me who never had a chance to live slips with the tongue and says "Oh my God!" and I'm damned forever, and to die an early death?

 

Surely there is someone else out there who is experiencing the same thing. Because of this dread, I have lost my job, my peace, my future. I have only told one person. I can't tell my family. Who wants to be looked upon by everyone as a curse? If anyone else is suffering the same thing, please post back! I feel like a particular curse among men.

 

There is a God, and Jesus Christ is His Son. I've seen it by The Holy Spirit for sure, I have no doubt about it. Those who are Christians ought to becareful lest they fall into this same situation.

 

Thanks.

[spamandham]

Jason, if you will not answer the straightforward questions that have been asked in this thread, further discussion is pointless.

[jasonwhatever]

Well, what questions do you all want to ask of me? I thought I was answering more questions about myself on here than others do. But, ask, if it matters.

[Guest Emerson]

Why do you continue to come here if you think very strongly that you believe in God and that christianity is still the way? Do you think that you'll eventually go back to christianity? Be honest. Pick a side, and stay there. Not to sound harsh but you really do need to pick a side and stand by what you believe, we may be ex-christians, but we like people who know who they are.

[Guest JP]

Why do you continue to come here if you think very strongly that you believe in God and that christianity is still the way? Do you think that you'll eventually go back to christianity? Be honest. Pick a side, and stay there. Not to sound harsh but you really do need to pick a side and stand by what you believe, we may be ex-christians, but we like people who know who they are.

 

And how easy was it for you to pick a side when you were questioning things? He needs some support. He reminds me a lot of myself. "Picking a side" and evaluating your beliefs are much easier said than done. Remember, he's been in this since he was 19.

[Guest Emerson]

Well its what christians used to ask me, so I'm asking him. Was I harsh? Oh I don't know, I think that maybe I did push it out there....but I do want to say...

 

Jason, take your time. I don't think that you really want to be an ex-christian. I don't mean to come down on you or anything, but I think you do eventually have to pick sides maybe even in your doubt. Even when you choose a side, you will probably have doubts. I know that they come now and again. That's part of being human. Anyway, best of luck in your decision.

[jasonwhatever]

Thanks, JP.

 

Well, I've actually been in this since I was about 9, when Baptist fundies came to convert the neighborhood kids. It just came around full force again when I was 19. It hit me like a ton of bricks....6 months of "I'm damned to hell," like the prophet said "Woe is me, for I am undone, for I am a man of unclean lips, for I have seen The Lord of Hosts."

 

That was followed by 4 year or so years of "I'm blessed, I'm of those called and chosen." Then I denied everything, putting life to death, that I could live in Him who died. You know, the "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, and yet not I, but Christ liveth in me, and this which I now live in the flesh I live in the faith of The Son of God Who loved me and died for me."

 

Then it was a few years of warm faith, but not burning hot.

 

Then it was lukeward, and one summer of "I'm tired of this. I want to live for myself." Now it's feeling damned, that I've fallen away.

 

I still actually believe. I don't think I could ever stop believing, but I want to. I wish it were all a lie.

I just feel damned, and casted off. Coming on here makes me feel better because other's also believed, left, and are still alive. What have I don't that's worse than them? Either I won't be stricked down, or they just never truly believed, according to The Bible.

[Ouroboros]

Jason, why don't you just relax in a more easy-going faith? Stop at the feeling that there might be a God, but think of him as good and loving to you. Skip the whole angry God routine, and just let it be faith for what faith is. If you decided to believe what the bible says, you don't believe in God really, you believe in Paul, Mathew, Luke etc, and what they said they believed. So why do you stick to trusting Paul to know it all? Don't you trust your own feelings?

[jasonwhatever]

Why did you ban me from being able to post other topics?

 

I was wanting to ask people what denomination they came from.

[Ouroboros]

Why did you ban me from being able to post other topics?

 

I was wanting to ask people what denomination they came from.

I didn't.

 

You should be able to post most everywhere. Which section did you try to post in? I don't think you're able to post in the Ex-testimony only, but all the rest of them should be open.

[Checkmate]

First off, let me say to Jason that I am perplexed by your self-confessed FEAR of your so-called "loving and merciful God", combined with your evangelistic desire to convince others to join you in your delusions of FEAR. You're afraid that YOU'VE screwed up, and yet you believe that we would be "wise" to join YOU? "Misery loves company", huh?

 

Allow me to speak for everyone else assembled here by answering, "No, thanks!" You just keep your delusions to yourself. We're free of your burden of guilt and we like our freedom just fine.

 

Second, why is it not obvious to you, Jason, that if your belief is causing you grief and NOT "the peace that surpasses understanding", then MAYBE the solution is to shit-can your beliefs? Stop trying to convince US. Stop trying to ameliorate yourself. Just put the Bible down and walk away. It obviously isn't helping you.

 

I'm reminded of a quote from Mark Twain where he says:

"Strange...a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied seventy times seven and invented Hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!"

…………Mark Twain, Bible Teaching and Religious Practice essay, "Europe and Elsewhere", 1923

Elsewhere, you commented that you wished that you could believe that Christianity was all a lie. Well, what exactly is stopping you from believing this? It IS a lie. Take it from me. Or better yet, go off and read your Bible with the exact same level of skeptical thought you'd use on the Qu'ran, the Book of Mormon or Harry Potter. You will find that they are all EQUALLY fictional. Nothing to be afraid of.

 

Jason, it is exceedingly ironic to me, that you came to this site with a problem/fear that was pivotal in convincing others that your religion is worthless. As I said before, if your religion is causing you THIS much anguish, then THAT is proof enough that it is WRONG and should be abandoned.

 

Unless you are able to come to a place of peace with your god/religion where Open_Minded and Amanda (other Xian posters on this board) find themselves, then you need to quit it before it kills you.

[kellyb]

Do you want to be a christian or are you open to atheism/agnosticism/deism/whatever?

 

If you want to be Christian, maybe you should check out the Quakers. They seem like they might be a good influence for someone in your position.

[Amethyst]

OMG!

 

*looks around*

 

Still here.

 

Oh my god.

 

*looks around*

 

Still here.

 

Oh my god.

 

I'm still here.

 

Get the picture?

 

If there is a god who will torture people for all of eternity for saying any one particular phrase, he or she is not worth worshipping.

 

Do yourself a favor and get professional help.

[kellyb]

Ok...

How 'bout this...

Here's part of how I got out.

 

1)I accepted that I'd been brainwashed.

2)I accepted that this was just like everybody else in every other weirdo cult who'd been brainwashed.

3)I got really pissed off about this and decided to take a break from religion for a while and view the world as though there was no God and Christianity was just another mind-controlling cult.

 

Can you at least do # 1 and 2, Jason?

[Guest Emerson]

Jason,

 

You won't be striked down. All of us have to recognize that we are mortal

beings and one bad decision could end your life like drunk driving but don't get all paranoid about that. We know that we are mortal beings and that's why we do take responsibility for our actions and their consequences both good and bad. In other words, we know we are mortal so we're not about to pull something shitty and stupid.

 

Don't you think that if the christian God knows you as Psalm 139 says that he does, then knows how HARD you are trying to know him, to love him, to please him, and to have a relationship with him. If God is all knowing and all powerful as the bible says then he knows how hard you are trying and how hard you are struggling. Don't you think that he would know that?

 

And if not, then why keep on worshipping him? Why bother putting yourself through this torture? Jason, I would really suggest that you go out tand take a college course on world religions, or check out books on various religions around the world at your local public library. Please read them from objective secular perspectives, instead of the same christian authors that will just repeat the same dogma. It will challenge you even more. Or look them up at wikipedia.org (its free online) Compare them, you will find similarities.

 

If you can't feel peace about Jesus Christ then why keep on following him?

If all you feel is fear, paranoia, doubt, confusion, a sense of loss, then it means that religion or christianity is doing you more harm than good.

 

Yahweh from Judaism and Allah from Islam are very similar to the christian god, but if I don't feel threatened by what they declare on their holy texts to "heathens" then why should I worry about what xtianity says about god and stuff?

 

I mean come on. I think people throughout diff cultures in history made up religion to relate to god, to explain certain mysteries about the world. But that was another time, another generation. I can't make my life based on what Ancient people believed in and thought. I have to live my own life.

[narcissist]

I'm just wondering why I haven't been stricken down yet; It's been 7 months.

 

Perhaps, just like you accuse us, you were never a true christian either.

[All Gods Fail]

I still actually believe. I don't think I could ever stop believing, but I want to. I wish it were all a lie.

 

Dude, it so is a lie. The worst, most vicious lie ever perpetrated on mankind. Hell and damnation is complete and total bullshit, strung together from many other cultures and religions. Ever wonder why the Jews don't sweat hell very much?

 

Hell isn't in the Old Testament, that's why. Paul and the later authors of the bible (the gospels, revelations, etc.) made it up from whole cloth. Why? Because they were mentally ill, if you ask me. What kind of sadists would invent such a miserable, terrifying institution as hell? Sick minds, who had an obsessive need to control others.

 

What have I don't that's worse than them? Either I won't be stricked down, or they just never truly believed, according to The Bible.

 

You've read the 'testimonies' of us ex-c's, right? So you know that a great many people here were true believers, probably more devoted to Jesus than you ever have been. When my crisis of faith came, I suffered for almost 2 years waiting for God and/or Satan to kill me. It drove me to severe depression, panic attacks, and finally a nervous breakdown, and I wound up in the nuthouse for about 2 months. You'd think I would've wised up by then that nothing was going to happen, but it took another year or so before it finally dawned on me that I had been brainwashed - but good.

 

That was over 19 years ago, btw. Since then, I've learned so much, and become so happy and free, I can't believe I ever fell for that horseshit about talking snakes and water into wine. God failed to strike me down, the devil failed to take over my soul, and Mohammed has been strangely silent about all of this, even though I think his religion is crap as well.

 

Biblegod is as real as you want to make him - just like Zeus or Ra. And believing any of them is up in the sky waiting to fry yer ass with a lightning bolt is no way to go through life.

[Ouroboros]

Okay, here's an explanation why you haven't been struck down yet... (don't do this at home kids!)

 

you haven't done these steps:

1. taken a cross of metal

2. gone up on a hill

3. and waited for the thunderstorm

 

(This is a reference to the sad story of the 5 kids that got killed by lightning.)

[spamandham]

Well, what questions do you all want to ask of me? I thought I was answering more questions about myself on here than others do. But, ask, if it matters.

 

Just answer these questions that have already been posed, succinctly:

 

- If you don't believe, then you don't believe god will kill you either, because you don't believe! Do you at least recognize your fears as irrational?

 

- Many of us here have survived for years as opostates. How do you explain that, if god kills people within a year for apostacizing?

[Ouroboros]

... opostates...

Huh?

 

You TUI (Type Under Influence) Spam!