Blotted Out Of Book Of Life

[Guest Emerson]

Jason, what you're going through has nothing to do with "enough belief" or "disbelief, and doubt." Its very human to question, to know, to ask to be curious to THINK! Its all very human.

 

I don't know if all these little bible examples are helping, but take this...the book of job, Job went through a terrible time. So he questioned god, he asked, he thought, etc. HE WASN"T STRUCK DOWN. Part of having a relationship with god, should be asking intelligent questions and working through them. No, not all your questions will get "answered" but you shouldn't be afraid to think and to ask and to question.

 

I think that if you choose to keep being a christian, you should be okay with that concept.

[bob]

Thanks, JP.

 

Well, I've actually been in this since I was about 9, when Baptist fundies came to convert the neighborhood kids. It just came around full force again when I was 19. It hit me like a ton of bricks....6 months of "I'm damned to hell," like the prophet said "Woe is me, for I am undone, for I am a man of unclean lips, for I have seen The Lord of Hosts."

 

That was followed by 4 year or so years of "I'm blessed, I'm of those called and chosen." Then I denied everything, putting life to death, that I could live in Him who died. You know, the "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, and yet not I, but Christ liveth in me, and this which I now live in the flesh I live in the faith of The Son of God Who loved me and died for me."

 

Then it was a few years of warm faith, but not burning hot.

 

Then it was lukeward, and one summer of "I'm tired of this. I want to live for myself." Now it's feeling damned, that I've fallen away.

 

I still actually believe. I don't think I could ever stop believing, but I want to. I wish it were all a lie.

I just feel damned, and casted off. Coming on here makes me feel better because other's also believed, left, and are still alive. What have I don't that's worse than them? Either I won't be stricked down, or they just never truly believed, according to The Bible.

"Christianity -- creating a wound where none existed, then selling the victim the treatment."

Jason, this is what has happened to you. This is what happened to all of us who once believed. You are not a "sinner". You are not damned to some imaginary hell. You are just a guy who has bought the lie (as I did, and clung to for 25 years) and is having a very hard time coming to grips with the reality of it all.

"Every pulpit is a pillory, in which stands a hired culprit, defending the justice of his own imprisonment."

--Robert G. Ingersoll

[spamandham]

... opostates...

Huh?

 

You TUI (Type Under Influence) Spam!

 

 

Uhhhh, I was typing in tounges.

[Guest Emerson]

At some point you just can't care if you're "blotted out" by the book of life. For example, Islam claims that Allah will judge everyone and send the "appropriate" people to hell for damnation. Well I'm not taking that seriously. I simply don't care what Allah says. I just don't. You kind of have to have the same attitude where it regards Jesus Christ.

[Ouroboros]

Uhhhh, I was typing in tounges.

My pastor's favorite expression in tongues: Shackabahaya. (Whatever that means? Maybe "God is dead." Hehe)

[jasonwhatever]

I thought I might be slain on passover...that came and went, and I was relieved. Then I find out that there's actually a second Passover mandated by God, to be held one month later, which would be May 12. Hmmm. I will keep in contact while I can. If I make it through that, then there's Shavuot, feast of firstfruits; since I'm a tree dried up, without fruit, well see if I make it through that. Then there's Rosh Hashanah in September. I should feel okay if I make it through that. This is a nightmare.

[Guest Emerson]

Oh you'll make it! You won't be struck down, honestly Jason don't you see how paranoid you're being and how silly it is for a god to just worry about you to slain when there are much more worse people out there like murderers? Don't you think that god would slain them first? I mean think about it.

 

No offense but seeing you get worried like that just reminds me of how paranoid I used to get and why I don't like religion anymore. Why would any loving god make you paranoid with his "word" like this is beyond me. I'm sorry you have to go through with this, but maybe you just have to let this run its course and see that you're going to be okay in the end.

[jasonwhatever]

Thanks Emerson,

 

I hope you are sincere, and not just saying these things to make me feel better. I know that the mind can be a powerful thing, and I hope that I'm just disillusioned. Yeah, I do find some relief when I think about the fact that if this is really going to happen to me, it seems that there would be a lot more people out there that it happens to also. How could I be the only one? I have done internet searches, and posted topics on here, thinking that if this really happens, I would hear somehow from or about someone else who had the same thing happen to them, and then died. "Sin unto death," "and bring upon themselves swift destruction," "whose judgment of a long time lingereth not, and whose damnation slumbers not." Etc. These keep running through my head. But, how could I be the only one?

 

Emerson, I too, like you, would like to be able to live my life and be happy. That is what caused my heart to be tired of Christianity also. I wanted to be able to work my job, have money, plan for the future, and be happy, instead of always trying to live like Jesus Said "as one who waits for his Lord from heaven," "no man who wars entangels himself again in the affairs of this world, that he may please Him Who hath called him to be a soldier," "he who does not deny himself cannot be My disciple," "he who keeps his life shall lose it; he who loses his life for My Sake shall find it," "take no thought for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on, for the life is more than meat and the body is more than raiment." "Take no thought for tomorrow, for sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." I took these things literally. Thus, though I was an excellent high school student, scored very well on sats and have tested quite high on iq tests, I have no college degree, currently no job, and live in misery. All because I denied myself for The Lord, not planning my future, but instead living for God only. Apparantly God truly is not as long-suffering as David makes it out. I lived one season for myself (and didn't even fully reject God...I was still harping to my bf how that Christ is the fulfillment of the Old Testament Holy Days, etc) and God was quick and ready to cast me out forever. "If you forsake The Lord, He will reject thee forever."

I wish He would have just rejected me from the get-go that I could have lived my life, and then I could be saved at the end of it.

 

Jesus Says "My yoke is easy and My burden is light." I can say honestly that from my experience, His yoke and burden is not light or easy. People were murdered because of faith in Him. People go nuts because of feelings of guilt trying to please Him. He teaches us to basically hate all that the world represents while having us to live in the world. Christianity is not an easy calling at all, especially for somone like me who is gay.

 

But, according to The Scriptures, one can be a murderer, child molester, thief, extortioner like those at enron, and be utterly filthy wicked, repent at the end of a long life of evil, and be saved and inherit eternal life. But, if someone like myself denies everything to please God, suffers many days of crying to God out of misery, etc, and then lives for themself for one season, they are damned forever, because they have fallen away.

[Guest Emerson]

Well Jason, I've been there so I am doing my best to help you as all of us are because this is a forum for exchristians and we're here to support each other. Not to sound like Miss America but this forum is a safe haven for exchristians.

 

Jason, I'll encourage you to just keep learning, keep asking questions, try to study things from the non-christian worldview. You know what the christians say, now try out the other side.

 

There's selfish and then there's selfish. Looking out for #1 or looking out for yourself is not a bad thing. You need to look out for yourself. Why do flight attendants say to passengers on airplanes to put their oxygen masks first? So that they can help their loved ones like their childrens, so that parents don't die and are able to help their families. Is it selfish? No, its about survival.

 

In short, all of us humans are trying to survive one way or another, some doing much better than others. You need to look out for yourself so you will have a roof to sleep over, food to eat, and a good quality of life. In short denying yourself the things that you want and what makes a good life is just miserable.

 

And then there's selfish, these are people who don't care what they do and hurt everyone in the way, like the Enron executives who ruined the thousands of workers and their way of life. That's more than selfish, that's greed. There's really a difference, and I don't know if I'm making it better for you, but i hope you get the gist of it.

 

Well here's my experience Jason. I've been where you are. I've denied myself by putting my studies in college behind. I didn't go to class a lot of times, instead I would just go to church, meet with other xtians. I would pray about the future and all the while, a couple of semesters went by. The only reason I'm 23 and still at college is because I took several years out of my college education. I delayed it because I was searching for God and his will for my life.

 

Not only that Jase, but I also put my social life on hold. Like dating and that's put me behind with guys, because I like to socialize, we need people to be around, humans are social creatures like other animals. Anyway in short, I like guys. But because of certain xtian beliefs, I put that on hold and now I'm behind on that and I'm sorry that I am. Its not wrong to want to go out on dates, to like people, and to have sexual feelings for them.

 

Denying yourself will just hold you back in life and life will pass you by without you enjoying it. That's what I see now. Now I'm back in college and things are better.

 

I think that if there's a god out there who cares about people worshipping him then he'd be pleased with someone like you. I think that if there's a god then he wants his creatures to enjoy himself, after all wasn't Jesus the one that said that he came so that his followers would have an abundant life?

 

John 10:7-11

 

What does abundant mean? I think it means living a full life and not not deying enjoyment, because life is a gift.

 

 

 

Don't put your life on hold Jason, we only get one life and no repeats. Even if you believe in reincarnation you should still enjoy this life. Get out and live your life because you don't want to wake up at 80 and realize that you wasted it and that you let it pass you by.

[RankStranger]

Jason- your last post reminds me of my experience when I was fighting with/for my faith. I remember just wishing that I could live my life without worrying about God or finding the exact right interpretation of his Word. Well, I got my wish!

 

God and I had a falling-out about sixteen years ago. I went from a struggling (but earnestly 'saved') christian to a free and honest atheist. I've dared to utter "oh my god" and lots of worse things. Sixteen or so passovers and Rosh Hashanah's have come and gone, and I haven't been 'struck down' as far as I know.

 

Jason- read up about the origins of the bible. There's plenty of info on this site and lots of others. It's no more literally true than the Odyessey- the's no reason to consider any single verse literally true (or true at all in most cases).

[duderonomy]

Jason,

 

The 'Unpardonable Sin' is attributing the works of Jesus to the power of Satan.

 

The Holy Spirit is given as a seal of our acceptance to God when we first believe. If the faith or no faith decision we have to make in this life counts for all of eternity, then God's acceptance of us in this life must also last for all of eternity.

 

So if you see that Jesus is Lord and ask Him to save you...if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, thou shalt be saved. No man, including yourself, can pluck you from His hand.

 

There is no way a Christian can commit the 'unpardonable sin'. The Pharisees that Jesus was talking to when this was mentioned saw His miracles and said he did them through the power of the Devil. No one who has honestly saught God, and has had that moment where they feel the Holy Spirit hovering around them, and saw his life and the bad in it, and begged for forgiveness and felt the Holy Spirit enter their body, and then cried for hours out of grattitude for being forgiven, and thanking Jesus for washing him clean, could say that that is of the Devil.

 

You aren't going to Hell, my brother.

 

You seem to want to sit in Heaven, but dangle your feet in Hell, just to see what's going on down there.

 

You're either a Christian, or not.

 

There is a 'sin unto death'. But it isn't spiritual death, it's physical.

 

But then you're thinking "No, John means a sin unto spiritual death!".

 

How so? There are many sins that will cause physical death, but that doesn't mean that these are unpardonable.

[Guest JP]

Duder, from the sound of your post...have you reconverted?

[spamandham]

There is no way a Christian can commit the 'unpardonable sin'.

 

Most of us here are no longer Christians. Can't we be allowed to commit this sin? Surely you're not going to argue that you have to actually believe the words you say for it to count are you? What a rip off.

[duderonomy]

Spamandham,

 

Yes, you can be allowed to commit this sin.

 

As for believing one's own words, Jesus said that it's from the heart that the mouth speaks. One's own words will either excuse or condem them.

 

Do you have to believe the words you say? If you don't, do your words count?

 

 

JP,

 

Why do you ask?

 

I was only pointing out to Jason, that he couldn't have possibly have commited some sin that he couldn't get forgiveness for.

[Guest Emerson]

one xtian coming right up!

[Rosa Mystica]

 

JP,

 

Why do you ask?

 

 

Heh, I'm starting to wonder the same thing as JP. Don't worry dude- I won't judge you if you have. Jugmentality is something I left behind when I stopped believing in Christianity. And I'll respect you no matter what- really.

[Jedah]

Lets just put this simple Jason. If I knew of a man who would slay those who disagree with his ideals, even if those ideals were not malevolent, I would say that man is evil. Now what makes you think an omnibenevolent god would do this to his creations ? Does it really make any sense at all that a god that supposedly knows everything would resort to fear tactics in order to make sure people believe ? Does it make sense that he didnt bother to provide any evidence for the true religion despite the huge price supposedly on our soul ?

 

THis thread explains it better :Old thread on hell

 

I know this isnt your exact concern, but hopefully Im getting the point across. If the christian God really is who he says he is then why does his punishment system remind us of facism ?

[Guest Emerson]

good point mushroom_man.... I just want to add something.

 

If someone is going to believe in a deity, and usually deities are thought to have great power, then in all hypothetical reality...deities may do as they wish. They can do good things or terrible things, just like human beings. I.E. the greek myth gods such as Zeus, Athena, Hades. Jewish God Yahweh, Jesus Christ, Christian Bible God. They all do as they wish.

[spamandham]

 

Yes, you can be allowed to commit this sin.

 

Well good then. I was starting to feel cheated.

 

As for believing one's own words, Jesus said that it's from the heart that the mouth speaks. One's own words will either excuse or condem them.

 

I don't put what Jesus is purported to have said at a higher level than anyone else. I don't consider those teachings particularly enlightened. Some of them are simply stupid as far as I'm concerned. In the case of blasphemy of the holy spook, clearly people who don't believe in Jesus, or demons, can not mean what they say when they equate the works of Jesus with the works of a demon. So why do it then!?

 

Basically, to demonstrate that there is no lingering fear, not just to others, but to oneself as well.

[duderonomy]

No reconversion here!

 

I just figured that if Jason was going to believe, he may as well have my preaching in there too. Somebody's been feeding him some bull that even mainstream fundies wouldn't have.

 

There's no reason to have such an irrational fear inside or outside the 'church'. I've been through this type of thing myself in my past, and I know the torture of being frozen by fear. For me, the answer was Zoloft and a good dose of reality.

[jasonwhatever]

Well, everyone, tonight is the second Passover...it was instituted by God after certain Israelites were unclean through touching a dead man or were on a journey, so God allowed that they could observe Passover this night, one month after the previous one. I wasn't slain on the first one....will I make it past this one? I sure hope so. I wish that God would either give me mercy or just leave me alone and let me live this life out as my body naturally allows. I still believe in The Bible and Jesus Christ and God, though I am starting to wonder about the validity of some parts of Scriptures which do appear to have been added after the originals. The parts about women being pastors, for example, appear to have possibly been added by scribes after-the-fact because of their preconceived bias in those backward times.

 

I hope I am alive come tomorrow nigh...tonight at sunset would begin the Second Passover. If I survive this, then I have to worry about Shavuot on June 1. In a way, I'm afraid, but in a way I have come to peace with myself about things. That is, I feel that I have not done anything worthy of special judgment and damnation from God. I'm a human being, not perfect.

 

I will keep you all posted.

 

Bye

[Guest Emerson]

Well you've made it Sparky. Congratulations. Here's a gold medal.

 

Honestly Jason do you really think that you're going to be struck down? I'm starting to think you're doing it for the attention now. Life can only be taken one day at a time and you will live. There's no guarantee on anyone of our lives but I'm pretty sure you're not going to be struck down by Zeus himself. In the meantime, enjoy life.

[Fweethawt]

Quit freakin' worrying about being "blotted out of the book of life".... Sheesh!

 

Get out there and write your own freakin' book!!!

[jasonwhatever]

I'm alive!!!!!

 

It's past sundown in Jerusalem and I'm still alive. Yay! I'm so happy.

[Ouroboros]

You see Jason! You're alive! I hate to say it, but we told you so!